Shropshire Lad Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Am I glad I found this site! I thought it was just me who believed that:- 1. A house is primarily a basic human necessity, not an investment, and the Government should have legislated for this to deter the money grabbers from holding the less well off to ransom (it seems they have in part realised this and removed it from the list of SIPP tax breaks). Other essentials have some form of regulation (Ofwat, Ofgas etc). Could you imagine Tesco being allowed to corner the food market if they were causing people to starve? 2. Lost confidence in the stock market, which caused the last stock market crash due to investors rushing to sell, low interest rates, and the 'bandwagon' mentality has resulted in lots of everday Joes 'investing' in buy to let. The difference is, when they had their few grand of shares, it was their own money. Now, they've discovered gearing which is great in a rising market, but when the market selects reverse gear, they end up in negative equity. I know a few people who have remorgaged their own property to gear up for 2-3 buy to lets. Interesting times ahead. 3. When commodities (and that's what some people have renamed their family homes), reach a price that the buyer cannot afford, then either the method of financing has to change (part equity schemes, lower interest rates, lifetime mortgages etc), or the price of the commodity HAS to drop. 4. The government is banging on about building more affordable homes. It seems blindingly obvious that if one person owns 5+ first time buyer/starter homes, then 4+ people are going to be without a property they can buy. Why doesn't the government simply make it financially less attractive to make money on property that the owner does not inhabit? Mind you, government ministers too are on his bandwagon, so it's not in their personal interest to do this. 5. The lost confidence described in point 2 can equally happen to the housing market. As it did in Dotcom shares. As it did in Marconi shares. When one or two Wilderbeast start running, watch the rest follow! I haven't trawled through any of the other posts yet, so sorry if I have simply repeated other peoples opinions. That's me done. Now I've got that off my chest, the world seems a much better place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E Powell Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Spread the word Telford boy this is a dam good website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Observer Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Welcome to the forum - I think you've summed things up nicely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanman Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Welcome from an Oswestry lad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VacantPossession Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 If this is a first, or nearly first post, congratulations. Excellent analysis. VP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Don’t be confused by thinking government is on your side ! Does the farmer take the side of his flock of sheep or does he try to compete against all the other farmers ? Put another way, Lawyers and gangsters are running the world and you are fair game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paradox Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Spot on - there are more of us around than you might think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyMe Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 (edited) Welcome to the board. Your comparisons with the Dot.Com / Tech bust are to my mind absolutely spot on. The leves of gearing involved with the housing market are toally off the scale compared to the equity markets at the time, so the level of risk involved is amiplified propertionately. To think that this created debt boom was supposed to stabilise the economy will be seen as a sick joke in the future. Edited December 6, 2005 by OnlyMe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevin Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 I know it isn't different this time except for; company shares aren't essential (it can go belly up) but housing is essential and will remain essential until people don't like owning homes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusBuilder Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Am I glad I found this site! I thought it was just me who believed that:- 1. A house is primarily a basic human necessity, not an investment, and the Government should have legislated for this to deter the money grabbers from holding the less well off to ransom (it seems they have in part realised this and removed it from the list of SIPP tax breaks). Other essentials have some form of regulation (Ofwat, Ofgas etc). Could you imagine Tesco being allowed to corner the food market if they were causing people to starve? Are you implying that you think someone or some single organisation has "cornered" the residential property market? What exactly should the Government have done to "deter the money grabbers"? Should this wonderful new legislation also apply to commercial properties, because commercial space is a "basic business necessity". You seem to be blaming the owners of residential property (most of who also live in their property) for the circumstances in which you find yourself. Furthermore you want someone else to take action to improve your lot in life. Perhaps the Government could enact the "Shropshire Lad bill" whereby you are given the house of your choice wherever you want it (you could have Buckingham palace and maybe get it rotated 30 degrees to the North so the garden gets more sun) or maybe all owners of property should have their ownership revoked every 3 years and handed over to non-owners. What a crock! BTW Some people do starve or are at least suffering from malnutrition in this Country and Tesco's have cornered the market in many areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughing_goat Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Welcome from an Oswestry lad. Some of my relatives live in Oswestry! Shropshire Lad, Welcome to the forum, nice post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire Lad Posted December 6, 2005 Author Share Posted December 6, 2005 Are you implying that you think someone or some single organisation has "cornered" the residential property market? What exactly should the Government have done to "deter the money grabbers"? Should this wonderful new legislation also apply to commercial properties, because commercial space is a "basic business necessity". You seem to be blaming the owners of residential property (most of who also live in their property) for the circumstances in which you find yourself. Furthermore you want someone else to take action to improve your lot in life. Perhaps the Government could enact the "Shropshire Lad bill" whereby you are given the house of your choice wherever you want it (you could have Buckingham palace and maybe get it rotated 30 degrees to the North so the garden gets more sun) or maybe all owners of property should have their ownership revoked every 3 years and handed over to non-owners. What a crock! BTW Some people do starve or are at least suffering from malnutrition in this Country and Tesco's have cornered the market in many areas. Perhaps the government should have levied a tax on the income from buy to let. I don't blame the owners who live in their residential property, just those who've jumped on the buy-to-let bandwagon and don't live in their own property. Through hard work, I actually live in the house of my dreams, in the area a choose to live in, mortgage free. There are plenty of ethical ways to make money out there, I just don't believe that screwing the housing market is particularly ethical. If Tesco's corner the market, the anti-competition legislation should kick in. As yet, they haven't (though no doubt they're working on it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueDeNimm Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Welcome to the site. I'm not worried about these BTL landlords myself. When their "portfolio" is worth less than the amounts they owe on interest-only mortgages, we will see a satisfying correction. Don't gamble what you can't afford to lose, people. There's no such thing as a guaranteed winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob monkhouse Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Welcome shrewsbury lad, from an ex-Newtown chap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatfreddie Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 5. The lost confidence described in point 2 can equally happen to the housing market. As it did in Dotcom shares. As it did in Marconi shares. When one or two Wilderbeast start running, watch the rest follow! Great post, I love the remark about the wildebeest. The stampede is slowly starting. It is quite apparent here in Sydney... property is now a no no. Also how far can it drop its only worth what someone will pay for it. How low will it go I am unsure where the support level is but I think it will be worse than 88-95 and will take longer to rectify itself as more people will be burnt this time. Fear is already in the air soon the stampede will start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusBuilder Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Perhaps the government should have levied a tax on the income from buy to let. I don't blame the owners who live in their residential property, just those who've jumped on the buy-to-let bandwagon and don't live in their own property. Through hard work, I actually live in the house of my dreams, in the area a choose to live in, mortgage free. There are plenty of ethical ways to make money out there, I just don't believe that screwing the housing market is particularly ethical. If Tesco's corner the market, the anti-competition legislation should kick in. As yet, they haven't (though no doubt they're working on it). Not sure if you are aware but the Government already Taxes all income including income from BTL property. The ownership of BTL properties in the UK is a tiny fraction of the overall UK residential property market, something like 6% of the overall UK residential properties are owned by BTL investors, so it may be that your anger is aimed at the wrong target. Who exactly is "screwing the housing market"? The Owner Occupiers - they want the best price when they come to sell so yes! The BTL owners - they're providing a service but damn them, they want a profit so yes! The Developers - yeah those greedy bast*rds are only in it for the money. Yes again. The Banks - ummm ... yes they lend on property don't they? and that's a sin right? The Estate Agents - yes most of all. the whole damned thing is down to them with their evil persuasive ways!! Why stop there? the whole damn country is corrupt with people trying to make a living. Damn the lot of them, they are all to blame!! For everything!! Everywhere!! Sounds a bit mad when you say it out loud doesn't it. The paranoid bias of this forum is startling. We are each and every one of us part of the great capitalist system that is the UK economy. We are all therefore complicit at best and eager participants at worst in rampant house prices increases. If we are indeed in a house price bubble then each and every one of us is to blame. No one individual or group of individuals can be "blamed" for causing house prices to increase - to think otherwise is quite simply nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erranta Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Am I glad I found this site!I thought it was just me who believed that:- If my memory serves me right it was the Govt, Financial community and Media that got everyday Joe's to buy shares in their companies and on the markets. We know what happened shortly after that! 6 odd years later - it's now all about houses. Same 'team' of con-merchants leading the blind, inept and greedy up the garden path! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightytharg Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Not sure if you are aware but the Government already Taxes all income including income from BTL property. Not at the same rate. If you work for a living it adds up to around 60% (can be more, can be less). If you Buy-To-Let it is much lower. No one individual or group of individuals can be "blamed" for causing house prices to increase - to think otherwise is quite simply nuts. Er, I think you forgot the Government in your list. They are to blame: restricting the housing supply, stealing many of the houses for themselves, keeping interest rates below the rate of inflation, ramping up the property market through their television channels etc. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwickshire Lad Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 That's me done. Now I've got that off my chest, the world seems a much better place. Welcome Shropshire Lad from Warwickshire Lad ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wildman Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 This is indeed an excellent website, I was very close to buying in the summer because of the need to obtain a city base in Bristol,thank God this Website was here when I needed it most. I nearly made an offer on a Flat, the price was obviously inflated, but I was kinda worried. I just read the website diligently and I knew it was right. London Landlady really inspired me not to buy property now, I realy think she typifies the sheeple, there understanding, intelligence and sanity must be questioned. Now I believe the next task is to pick the bottom of this crash and buy at a reasonabl level and just get on with living in a house you want to call home and not be ripped off by the VI....! The Captain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libitina Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Welcome Shropshire Lad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire Lad Posted December 6, 2005 Author Share Posted December 6, 2005 Thanks for the welcome. As an aside, a friend of mine who bought a new apartment in Manchester to let out has just called me to ask if I can help him decorate it. After the Chancellor's bit yesterday, he's decided to sell up.....quick! Is he the only one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libitina Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Thanks for the welcome. As an aside, a friend of mine who bought a new apartment in Manchester to let out has just called me to ask if I can help him decorate it. After the Chancellor's bit yesterday, he's decided to sell up.....quick! Is he the only one? Lol, I doubt it.... So, you're from Telford are you? I work there and live about 8 miles from it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire Lad Posted December 6, 2005 Author Share Posted December 6, 2005 Lol, I doubt it.... So, you're from Telford are you? I work there and live about 8 miles from it I'm actually in Shrewsbury. Telford was assumed by one of the earlier posts. Both nice places though, in their own way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libitina Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Shrewsbury is better by far. S'ok, I'm not a local Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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