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spyguy

Poppies, Hfh, 'heroes' And All That

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Is anyone else fed up with Poppies, H4H, 'heroes' and all that?

I say this as someone who's brother have all been in the army. 2 in Iraq 1 + 2. 1 in Afghanistan. A couple of cousins in the Falklands.

I'm no peacenik.

H4H is providing a service that should be fully funded by the MOD, not dependent on tinshaking. At its core, its a business cost.

The whole Poppies things is a bit of hard to take. Remembering something 100 years ago when we've just repeated the Anglo-Afghan war 150 years on, with pretty much the same result.

British army victories are pretty infrequent. And our planning is pretty p1ss poor - more giving money to BAE to give a few people jobs in Glasgow, Plymouth and a collection of odds + sods town.

The wars we can fight are pretty limited now.

We will loose any war that comes down to us firing guns at the enemy on their own ground - Afghan.

We cannot really deploy our Navy near anywhere hostile. The US spent billions on Warships + carriers only to reliase how vulnerable they are when one was disabled going thru the Yemen Straits.

We don't have any helicopters, which don't last any time in a hostile read sandy environment.

We have a tank division based in the UK FFS. That's about 2,000 miles from any where where they will be needed. How in FFS are they going to deploy a tank division? Bulk buying of channel tunnel tickets?

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Oops, I assumed the Afghan Heroes charity that was forced to close was supporting Afghan freedom fighters who were bravely defending their tribal homelands, customs and way of life from illegal foreign invaders.

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Not got a problem with it......there was a time when some wore a poppy others didn't, a free choice......not all at the bbc wore one, now they all religiously do as if to not wear one is against protocol, being different is to go against what is the right and proper thing to do......a guy who was not wearing one had to justify it openly today....go to the naughty corner. ;)

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Not got a problem with it......there was a time when some wore a poppy others didn't, a free choice......not all at the bbc wore one, now they all religiously do as if to not wear one is against protocol, being different is to go against what is the right and proper thing to do......a guy who was not wearing one had to justify it openly today....go to the naughty corner. ;)

I don't wear one.

My eldest brother does not wear one. He was telling me he was getting sh1t from some 70 year for not wearing one - traitor, yellow belly etc.

My brother spent 20 years in the army. Iraq 1 + 2. 5 years in NI mopping up messes. He's spent time in Syria rencently - non-combat, weapons stuff for the UNW-whatsit.

The bloke giving my brother sh1t was in the catering corp for 2 years. Sandhurst.

I sh1t you not.

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I don't wear one.

My eldest brother does not wear one. He was telling me he was getting sh1t from some 70 year for not wearing one - traitor, yellow belly etc.

My brother spent 20 years in the army. Iraq 1 + 2. 5 years in NI mopping up messes. He's spent time in Syria rencently - non-combat, weapons stuff for the UNW-whatsit.

The bloke giving my brother sh1t was in the catering corp for 2 years. Sandhurst.

I sh1t you not.

What can I say....says it all really. ;)

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I don't wear one.

My eldest brother does not wear one. He was telling me he was getting sh1t from some 70 year for not wearing one - traitor, yellow belly etc.

My brother spent 20 years in the army. Iraq 1 + 2. 5 years in NI mopping up messes. He's spent time in Syria rencently - non-combat, weapons stuff for the UNW-whatsit.

The bloke giving my brother sh1t was in the catering corp for 2 years. Sandhurst.

I sh1t you not.

An officer and a chef? I bet he does lovely tea cakes!

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An officer and a chef? I bet he does lovely tea cakes!

Only catering corps bloke I knew was Irish and hated Scots people with a passion.

Imagine his dismay when he was posted to Chelsea Barracks back in the day for a two year tour with the Scots Guards.

He only did 16 Months of it though as an early morning cookhouse inspection found him 'jizzing' into the porridge.

He was put under immediate close arrest and when it turned out he had been doing it most mornings (he was on duty) for the duration of his tour he was posted PDQ.

Anyway back to poppies. H4H is not the great charity it is cracked up to be. Front and centre during the losses in Iraq and Afghan it certainly raised a lot of money and embarked on a large building programme of rehabilitation centres ect. All good you think until it emerged there was no long thought out plan on how these places would support themselves in perpetuity.

When the donations slowed down the Royal British Legion has to ride in and take over the upkeep of a few of these places with funding from the Poppy appeal.

Also worth pointing out that the sacrifice suffered gives people the right not to wear a poppy if they so wish. Much tosh written about the BBC and newsreaders ect. They and the guests on BBC chat shows do have the choice as do Members of Parliament members of the Government ect.

Is it up to them to exercise that choice if they so wish too.

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Lest we remember

11th November is “remembrance day”, when we commemorate the 1918 armistice with plastic poppies, symbolising the Flanders fields where so many young men fought and died in unspeakable conditions.

In the past I’ve not just worn a poppy, I’ve even helped sell them and raise money. In more recent years they’ve come into disrepute with the appropriation of remembrance by Blair’s warmongers, so I would feel unclean touching them or participating in the event.

This year, we should also have belatedly dropped the pretence of supporting the veterans of the Great War. Since the death of Harry Patch[1] in 2009, there are no such veterans to support. The Great War is now history, just as the Roman campaigns or the Napoleonic wars (to take just two examples) are. The plastic poppy should be relegated to the museum.

Lest we forget may be a fine sentiment. Until you give it a moment of thought, and look at the history of not forgetting. Blair’s Britain has glorified war to a level not seen since before 1914, and treats the memory of past wars – particularly 1939-45 – as an absolute excuse to behave like James Hogg’s Justified Sinner around the world. Much better we do forget.

[1] A man to be admired for his robust refusal to allow his status as the last survivor to have fought in the Great War be appropriated by today’s warmongers.

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Good to see I am not the only one who feels it has moved from "remembering" to what I feel now is war glorification.

I dont wear one now, especially since I know the banks that funded hitler are still around doing much the same damage. I can understand a few hundred years ago having wars for food and territory but not now, we are beyond that. Its just young poor guys being mangled to protect corporate assets.

Some european banks are still under investigation for funding hitler I think some swiss ones.

If you want to make a statement many ex forces I know now wear a white poppy which says I remember all the sacrifice but I am against wars.

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It was about the first world war for me, a collective apology to a generation laid waste as reflected by the bowed heads of the war memorials. There was no "mission accomplished" or the triumphalism of the Iwo Jima memorial. Everybody lost WWI.

I wore one pretty much every year until Harry Patch died representing the last of the men who fought. I don't wear one anymore as it was only about WWI as far as I am concerned and that is now one for the history books.

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I buy a poppy in memory of my grandfather who fought in the Great War .

Maybe I am old fashioned.

In a similar way I've made a wingback chair smell of stale urine. I find aromas are more potent in evoking memories, it's like he's in the room with me.

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In a similar way I've made a wingback chair smell of stale urine. I find aromas are more potent in evoking memories, it's like he's in the room with me.

Well if that sort of thing turns you on...

BTW my grandfather was 61 when he died which was before I was born so he probably never got round to the wing back chair and urine stage you are clearly so fond of fantasising about.

He went pretty much straight from school to the trenches on the Western Front.

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Well if that sort of thing turns you on...

BTW my grandfather was 61 when he died which was before I was born so he probably never got round to the wing back chair and urine stage you are clearly so fond of fantasising about.

He went pretty much straight from school to the trenches on the Western Front.

It wasn't a serious point or criticism just a counterbalance to what seemed to be a rather over-earnest post which seems even more so if you didn't ever directly know him, really.

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It wasn't a serious point or criticism just a counterbalance to what seemed to be a rather over-earnest post which seems even more so if you didn't ever directly know him, really.

Earnest or not he is the reason I buy a Poppy and his experience was shared by more than 6 million other ordinary Britons in the 20 th century's two world wars. I started wearing them regularly back in the early 1990s after visiting the battlefields of the western front. Walking around the Somme, Vimmy Ridge, Areas, Ypres etc and seeing the still existing evidence of the conflict plus the graveyards and monuments scattered across the landscape made me start to think about it in slightly less glib terms than when I was young.

My Dad was also called up at the very end of World War 2 though the Japanese had surrendered by the time he reached Burma. Both my father and grandfather were conscripts who had no real choice about getting involved. Though they both survived I think I have been lucky to avoid getting dragged into a similar conflict in my lifetime.

BTW I totally agree with those that think Rememberance has been abused and discredited by warmongering politicians. However, I don't see why those scumbags should own it. It was designed to provide a focus for relatives of those who had fought and died, often with no known grave, not as a recruiting ground for future conflicts. Anyway I will be buying and wearing a Poppy this year as previously. If others do not want to take part then they are free to abstain.

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Well if that sort of thing turns you on...

BTW my grandfather was 61 when he died which was before I was born so he probably never got round to the wing back chair and urine stage you are clearly so fond of fantasising about.

He went pretty much straight from school to the trenches on the Western Front.

My grandfather successfully avoided the trenches by the ploy of being unfit! He only had one eye, due to an accident, and was deemed unfit to be shot at, so he spent the Great War farming! After the War, a bloke with one eye, seemed rather handsome, compared to the unfortunate ones who came back with no limbs and half a head, all shell-shocked, and gibbering! So he married an Irish widow!

This is all in the "Book of Pin". Through this sleight of hand, and deceiving God, a bit, but I think God knew, but never said anything, Grandfather Pin, made Father Pin, and the Pin uncles. Father Pin made MrPin, with the help of the PinMother.

I am now here to correct the World.

I do not wear a Poppy, because I think the people that do (on TV sometimes, ostentatiously, er politicians) do not have the ability to appreciate the suffering that war causes, and the most difficult thing they ever did, is fill in their timesheet, and expenses. :blink: .

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we have a small stock of those large copper coloured medals.

I dont give to any of the current military charities.

There are thousands of soldiers injured very badly by the current wars we are engaged in. Whilst the men are brave, I dont beleive they joined up with the common aim to protect me and my Country...I know a few, and the career choice was one made like many others.

The heroism is there between soldiers, bred through a common cause in the battle zone. But that is very different from the feelings engendered in the populations of Europe in the Great War Era. And I believe that propaganda and VIs featured very much in igniting that particular conflict. Of course, seeing Fritz and the Hun invading swathes of Europe would inspire men to want to become involved, but, recruits and the press at the time certainly romanticised the glory of the conflict at the time.

And even after all the sacrifice, mostly of minds and limbs, the War to end all Wars, didnt.

In my mind, naming organisations Help for Heroes and their ilk are guilty of putting an honour onto the victims that doesnt exist in reality.

They dont get my support.

My father also never bought a poppy, people may not recall, but there were a number of scandals in the 1960s regarding the organisation receiving the funds with execs getting tremendous perks, while old soldiers were left wanting.

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I am liking you more and more Mr Loo! You are Pinworthy! With only 56000 posts!

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It's a good job only soldiers are killed or injured in war! Makes it easy to know who we are meant to remember

You and I, of the 17th Brittanic Legion, think about war, and we have decided it is not good! There are plenty of other problems in this World, and I have no answers, for many of the questions!

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Of course, seeing Fritz and the Hun invading swathes of Europe would inspire men to want to become involved, but, recruits and the press at the time certainly romanticised the glory of the conflict at the time.

Up to a point, Lord Copper.

The really crucial distinction between then and now is conscription. I can have a lot more sympathy for the conscript than for the thug who freely chooses violence.

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