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Nhs Quangos Spent £2Million On Ipads And Iphones For Managers

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2812712/NHS-quangos-spent-2million-iPads-iPhones-managers-shake-designed-save-money.html

NHS quangos spent £2million on iPads and iPhones for managers despite shake-up designed to save money
  • EXCLUSIVE: Quangos set up under NHS reorganisation spent most
  • More than 5,000 Apple gadgets have been bought since 2010
  • Department of Health insists it helps staff to work more flexibly
  • But Labour says money has been wasted on perks for 'pen-pushers'
  • The taxpayer has paid more than £2million buying smartphones and iPads for bureaucrats in NHS quangos, it can be revealed.

    Thousands of iPhones and tablet computers have been bought for staff at NHS England and Public Health England, set up under the coalition's reforms to save money for the health service.

    The government insisted it helped staff work more flexibly, but the expensive gadgets are all for managers and not doctors and nurses.

Excellent you can't be efficient unless you have an ipad and a iphone. It's a great meaningless line "working more flexibly"!

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At the end of the day the smart phones and tablets are powerful little mobile computers that offer a fairly secure environment that sandboxes the user from doing stupid stuff and allows remote tracking and destroying of the device. They can be deployed to do a wide variety of tasks that involve you interacting with digital systems (rather than just playing music and angry birds...). The cost of having a desk with a physical PC attached along with maintaining and managing it may have significantly higher costs.

Yes there are some cheaper Android devices out there by various manufacturers. But if you look for similarly specced windows phones/surface pro and Samsung range of android phones and tablets the cost of the Apple range isn't that high.

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At the end of the day the smart phones and tablets are powerful little mobile computers that offer a fairly secure environment that sandboxes the user from doing stupid stuff and allows remote tracking and destroying of the device. They can be deployed to do a wide variety of tasks that involve you interacting with digital systems (rather than just playing music and angry birds...). The cost of having a desk with a physical PC attached along with maintaining and managing it may have significantly higher costs.

Yes there are some cheaper Android devices out there by various manufacturers. But if you look for similarly specced windows phones/surface pro and Samsung range of android phones and tablets the cost of the Apple range isn't that high.

But they have the office and desk with PC, thus this trumps the Ipad and smartphone.

And i had an Android tablet from Argos which was 32GB and it cost £40.

I thnk the police should make vast savings on their vehicles by buying cheaper brand cars as opposed to BMW's and such like, they all do the same thing but at half the price or less.

Still when its someone elses money who gives a .....!

Edited by Corruption

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But they have the office and desk with PC, thus this trumps the Ipad and smartphone.

And i had an Android tablet from Argos which was 32GB and it cost £40.

I thnk the police should make vast savings on their vehicles by buying cheaper brand cars as opposed to BMW's and such like, they all do the same thing but at half the price or less.

Still when its someone elses money who gives a .....!

iPads I wouldn't know about but I have personal experience of reasonably priced cars in the emergency services. It's a false economy. The met replaced the vauxhall Astra with hyundais and the bmw with a skoda. The cars fell apart in a matter of months, maintainance costs were higher and this meant stations were struggling to field officers when half of the fleet was grounded. When you factor in bmw's surprisingly generous rate for supplying the vehicles off the list price the taxpayer wasnt getting the deal it seemed, plus public safety was being jeapordised by regular incidents of, amongst other things, gearstick handles coming off in the hands of drivers, fuze box covers being dislodged and falling underneath pedals, all whilst en route to a 999 call. It rarely pays to go cheap on critical equipment

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Department of Health insists it helps staff to work more flexibly

So managers arrange to give managers more free stuff? It's free money/taxpayers money after all.

Normally words like "work more flexibly" would mean redundancies in the pipeline - fat chance of course.

Edited by billybong

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Not sure I see the problem with this.

Surely it's standard practice to use tablets etc rather than pens and paper?

Or are we saying they should have cheap Android ones?

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Not sure I see the problem with this.

Surely it's standard practice to use tablets etc rather than pens and paper?

Or are we saying they should have cheap Android ones?

why is it standard practice to use a £600 device rather than a pad?

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At the end of the day the smart phones and tablets are powerful little mobile computers that offer a fairly secure environment that sandboxes the user from doing stupid stuff and allows remote tracking and destroying of the device. They can be deployed to do a wide variety of tasks that involve you interacting with digital systems (rather than just playing music and angry birds...). The cost of having a desk with a physical PC attached along with maintaining and managing it may have significantly higher costs.

Yes there are some cheaper Android devices out there by various manufacturers. But if you look for similarly specced windows phones/surface pro and Samsung range of android phones and tablets the cost of the Apple range isn't that high.

Any chance you work for a reseller? :lol::lol::lol:

Tablets and smartphones can be useful but as Corruption says these devices are often being bought in addition to a desktop / laptop. Does answering a pointless email quicker and being rude in a meeting make a better working environment.

iPads I wouldn't know about but I have personal experience of reasonably priced cars in the emergency services. It's a false economy. The met replaced the vauxhall Astra with hyundais and the bmw with a skoda. The cars fell apart in a matter of months, maintainance costs were higher and this meant stations were struggling to field officers when half of the fleet was grounded. When you factor in bmw's surprisingly generous rate for supplying the vehicles off the list price the taxpayer wasnt getting the deal it seemed, plus public safety was being jeapordised by regular incidents of, amongst other things, gearstick handles coming off in the hands of drivers, fuze box covers being dislodged and falling underneath pedals, all whilst en route to a 999 call. It rarely pays to go cheap on critical equipment

Got any evidence about these claims, particularly about the cheaper cars 'falling apart'?

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Skodas falling apart in months compared to BMW's ? ........

Can I borrow your time machine and go back to 1985 too please !! :)

Edited by ccc

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But they have the office and desk with PC, thus this trumps the Ipad and smartphone.

And i had an Android tablet from Argos which was 32GB and it cost £40.

I thnk the police should make vast savings on their vehicles by buying cheaper brand cars as opposed to BMW's and such like, they all do the same thing but at half the price or less.

Still when its someone elses money who gives a .....!

These regular stories of excess and largesse in the public sector designed to get the blood boiling make me laugh. Anyone in any similar position in the private sector knows that this is a budgeted cost of doing business.

I have a laptop, tablet and smartphone paid for by work (private sector), as does everyone I know in a similar position to me. Its like the similar stories regarding the amount spent on taxis, or 5* hotels. It's more often than not bog standard corporate travel.

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Probably if they weren't supplied with computer free stuff they would get jobs in the private sector or go overseas.

Managers with on average better wages than most in the private sector, more security, better pensions and plenty of free stuff. It's a surprise that anyone would chance it in the private sector.

Of course stuff is required to do work but then why isn't most everything free and just put on the taxpayer's tab. Just print it up.

Edited by billybong

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Got any evidence about these claims, particularly about the cheaper cars 'falling apart'?

Yes, but if you live in London, walk past your nearest cop shop and have a look - all the new motors are fords, the hyundais are being phased out after a year or 2. Considering the Astra fleet usually had 5 years squeezed out of them there is clearly a reason for this...not like there is suddenly a load of cash sloshing around

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Any chance you work for a reseller? :lol::lol::lol:

Tablets and smartphones can be useful but as Corruption says these devices are often being bought in addition to a desktop / laptop. Does answering a pointless email quicker and being rude in a meeting make a better working environment.

Got any evidence about these claims, particularly about the cheaper cars 'falling apart'?

Not at all.

I do system integration and development across the main three platforms.

The £40 android tablet from Argos, you'd probably have to replace very regularly and may not give you access to the apps you might expect from an Android device. You need to compare the iPad to equivalent devices from the likes of Samsung, not some unbranded cheap fly by night manufacturer that you will typically get issues with:

  1. Android updates to avoid vulnerabilities - The manufacturer is responsible for making and pushing out updates. I would be surprised if you would get any on a £40 device. - would you ever run any device that is attached to the internet that didn't get vulnerability updates? Your virgin media and BT wifi box gets remotely updated by the telco, incase you didn't know.
  2. Support by the mobile application management (MAM) and mobile device management (MDM) producers. Not all android devices are made equal on this front.If you are doing large deployments, you will be using these tools.
  3. Getting spares and repairs.
  4. If you are deploying lots of potentially odd ball devices, it makes testing and deployment of in-house made apps a pain in the backside, pushing up costs and adding delays to other parts of the business.
  5. The other typical issues is battery life & performance on cheap devices... The batteries tend to be smaller, and they may use less power efficient components.

India made a cheap tablet intended to give students access. It was cheap, but poor performance and battery life made it difficult to use.

Don't misunderstand me, there are some great Android devices out there (as mentioned before, a lot of the Samsung range). You just won't find them for £40 new in single quantities.... At which point the price argument of Apple vs Android starts to become significantly less compelling, so you need to find other valid arguments, bearing in mind that corporates needs differ from consumer.

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These regular stories of excess and largesse in the public sector designed to get the blood boiling make me laugh. Anyone in any similar position in the private sector knows that this is a budgeted cost of doing business.

I have a laptop, tablet and smartphone paid for by work (private sector), as does everyone I know in a similar position to me. Its like the similar stories regarding the amount spent on taxis, or 5* hotels. It's more often than not bog standard corporate travel.

In my capacity of a Work club team leader helping a local boro council help the workless, I can report that the three managers I am in contact with have all been issued with iphones and ipads.

This is in addition to the phones they already had.

None of these people understand what they need the ipads for, they were happy with their phones as they were. They all use pads for notetaking.

Never seen an Ipad at any of the meetings.

Not even seen one in the office being synched, charged, written on or anything.

Some years ago they all got PDAs...useless waste of time.

Then it was PDAs with phone built in....useless waste of time.

smartphones...better

replaced with more tech.

Its almost like there is an empire of tech staff with nothing to do other than roll out new kit...coudnt possibly the case...could it?

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On the bus, a while ago, someone in the public sector had been been given a PDA with phone and was telling her friend how she wrapped it in layers of foil so she could not be contacted using it as she didn't understand it and didn't want it.

Clearly public sector as she was too stupid to just switch it off and leave it in a drawer. Like I do with mine :)

The only time I use mine is when I travel abroad, when its only right that the company pays my phone bill/foots the cost of email access.

Edited by frozen_out

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iPads I wouldn't know about but I have personal experience of reasonably priced cars in the emergency services. It's a false economy. The met replaced the vauxhall Astra with hyundais and the bmw with a skoda. The cars fell apart in a matter of months, maintainance costs were higher and this meant stations were struggling to field officers when half of the fleet was grounded. When you factor in bmw's surprisingly generous rate for supplying the vehicles off the list price the taxpayer wasnt getting the deal it seemed, plus public safety was being jeapordised by regular incidents of, amongst other things, gearstick handles coming off in the hands of drivers, fuze box covers being dislodged and falling underneath pedals, all whilst en route to a 999 call. It rarely pays to go cheap on critical equipment

As someone who drives a couple of hire cars a month id much rather a Hyundia i30 over an Astra but they are similar priced so i cant understand why you are claiming the state would be buying them as a cheap alternative and they come with a 5 year warranty these days so maintenance costs would be free ... and Skoda is owned by VW thus are built to last.

These cars do not fall apart.

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These regular stories of excess and largesse in the public sector designed to get the blood boiling make me laugh. Anyone in any similar position in the private sector knows that this is a budgeted cost of doing business.

I have a laptop, tablet and smartphone paid for by work (private sector), as does everyone I know in a similar position to me. Its like the similar stories regarding the amount spent on taxis, or 5* hotels. It's more often than not bog standard corporate travel.

The state spends over 50% of GDP id say 50% of this spending is an extravagance, these stories are just the tip of the iceberg.

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The state spends over 50% of GDP id say 50% of this spending is an extravagance, these stories are just the tip of the iceberg.

Tip of the iceberg? It's a budgeted cost of doing business. It's irrelevant whether it's the tip of the iceberg or not. The real question is wether there is business required to be done. On this point I'm a little less conservative than you, I'd say 90% of government spending is an extravagance.

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I wonder how much the Mail has 'wasted' on iPads and iPhones for staff?

Its an irrelevance what a private company does with its money, if it blows too much itll go out of business.

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Not at all.

I do system integration and development across the main three platforms.

My local hospital has just rolling out a "partially electronic" patient record. They're doing a lot of development in house as their needs are rather unique, and none of the established vendors are willing to discuss customizations for a small, specialist hospital - at least, not at a sensible price.

After a lot of tests, they settled on ipads as the platform. Laptops are too bulky and heavy to be carried around. There are a number of "medical grade" tablet computers but the pricing is hilarious (£1500+) - they're nice pieces of kit, but why pay for a "proper" laser barcode scanner, when the ipad's camera and suitable software works 99% as well. The ipad has the biggest selection of aftermarket modficiations/cases available, and the most consistent OS for development purposes. There was no problem sourcing rigid protective cases for the ipads from several vendors.

Compared to android tablets, the enterprise management - locking down apps, locking down wifi, centrally managed encryption, remote wipe, etc. the ipad is light years ahead. You can't rely on android enterprise management being well supported. The other is that apple provide several years of OS support and updates to iOS. Samsung barely manage 12 months on their flagship android devices before discontinuing support.

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As someone who drives a couple of hire cars a month id much rather a Hyundia i30 over an Astra but they are similar priced so i cant understand why you are claiming the state would be buying them as a cheap alternative and they come with a 5 year warranty these days so maintenance costs would be free ... and Skoda is owned by VW thus are built to last.

These cars do not fall apart.

Maintanance is not covered by the warranty for starters - only defects. The cars simply can't take being driven 24 hours a day and having 100k put on them in 2 1/2 years. The astra's and focuses could that much better

Most of the skoda vrs's in the fleet are shedding coolant constantly and eat tires - an issue not presented with the previous 330d - which is why it's coming back.

Stick in an foi if you must and ask why Hyundai are no longer the proffered supplier, even though there should be 3 years left on the warranties of even the oldest cars

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why is it standard practice to use a £600 device rather than a pad?

£600? Where?

Also, it greatly reduces admin costs.

Pens and paper are cheaper, until you have to pay someone to store and retrieve all the information.

Of course the NHS use digital technology.

Do you really want it to go back to snail mail and secretaries with filing cabinets writing to other secretaries with file cabinets?

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You mean they don't send messages via carrier pigeon and semaphore flags? Wtf's the world coming to......

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