Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
TheCountOfNowhere

Has Osborne Played A Blinder ?

Recommended Posts

( Or should be be locked up for fraud. )

Market has peaked and turned.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29799937

Just as:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29799942

"

Thousands set to cash in pension pots next year"

Perfect. Crash cancelled.

Im a bit concerned of a stock market crash as all these Institutions look for cash and sell up portfolios.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was musing as to how many "amateur" landlords there are who are actually having a good time of it. Granted you see lots of message board postings from people bragging about their mega portfolio's but anecdotally how many BTL landlords do you know who think its making them money.

I know three people who have a BTL property, of this albeit limited sample, one openly admits its was a mistake and that the property is costing them money and the other two generally comment that they'd like to sell and get their equity back (they all bought c. 2007). All three complain about the hassle and unexpected expenses of voids/boilers etc.

If this is the nature of the chat down the golf club etc. then we might not see the stampede into BTL from the 55+ pensioners that we might expect.

Also bear in mind that everyone releasing their pension early will receive advice from and adviser who will be keen to turn their new found windfall into some type of investment product yielding a commission or fees. I'm confident that these chaps will pointing out the downsides of BTL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was musing as to how many "amateur" landlords there are who are actually having a good time of it. Granted you see lots of message board postings from people bragging about their mega portfolio's but anecdotally how many BTL landlords do you know who think its making them money.

I know three people who have a BTL property, of this albeit limited sample, one openly admits its was a mistake and that the property is costing them money and the other two generally comment that they'd like to sell and get their equity back (they all bought c. 2007). All three complain about the hassle and unexpected expenses of voids/boilers etc.

If this is the nature of the chat down the golf club etc. then we might not see the stampede into BTL from the 55+ pensioners that we might expect.

Also bear in mind that everyone releasing their pension early will receive advice from and adviser who will be keen to turn their new found windfall into some type of investment product yielding a commission or fees. I'm confident that these chaps will pointing out the downsides of BTL.

Unless they get a kickback from the BTL specialist/Lender/Estate agent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

( Or should be be locked up for fraud. )

Market has peaked and turned.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29799937

Just as:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29799942

"

Thousands set to cash in pension pots next year"

Perfect. Crash cancelled.

Once sentiment turns and it's mainstream that people aren starting to lose money on property and it's not always a one way bet, most people won't touch it with a long stick. The last people that will gamble their money on it are pensioners with their pension pots. I don't think anyone could be that stupid, can they?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once sentiment turns and it's mainstream that people aren starting to lose money on property and it's not always a one way bet, most people won't touch it with a long stick. The last people that will gamble their money on it are pensioners with their pension pots. I don't think anyone could be that stupid, can they?

Of course they will! Many of them will look at it as a place to pass on to their children when they die. I know my parents have been talking about it!

I've had arguments about the profitability of BTL before, and I reckon you can still eek out a return if your getting +6% RY.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course they will! Many of them will look at it as a place to pass on to their children when they die. I know my parents have been talking about it!

I've had arguments about the profitability of BTL before, and I reckon you can still eek out a return if your getting +6% RY.

My kids will probably have to make do with the cash.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A pal has six BTL's all bought on IO mortgages all 2006-8 he is self employed so he has to declare them. His point is that in X number of years he will have six houses that will all be

worth more than he paid and he will sell some to pay off others and even if the net result is that he only ends up with one, it will be one more than me, which in his eyes means that

in his retirement he will have some form of income, which I will not. I have lost count of the number of times that we have shall we say, agreed to disagree because as he points out

I can not be sure that the end result will be to his advantage or not.

We will only know in about 15-20 years time if he was a astute investor or a t1t.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A pal has six BTL's all bought on IO mortgages all 2006-8 he is self employed so he has to declare them. His point is that in X number of years he will have six houses that will all be

worth more than he paid and he will sell some to pay off others and even if the net result is that he only ends up with one, it will be one more than me, which in his eyes means that

in his retirement he will have some form of income, which I will not. I have lost count of the number of times that we have shall we say, agreed to disagree because as he points out

I can not be sure that the end result will be to his advantage or not.

We will only know in about 15-20 years time if he was a astute investor or a t1t.

All BTLs have to declare them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

all bought on IO mortgages all 2006-8 …. His point is that in X number of years he will have six houses that will all be

worth more than he paid

Quite an assumption.

Presumably the average monthly income is about the same or less than the average combined cost of interest payments, maintenance, letting agent fees etc?

All the examples Ive seen are essentially break even more or less, at these emergency interest rate levels. With buy to let, you hope for capital appreciation that more than makes up for the cost of buying/selling, opportunity cost of tied up deposit, cost of your time dealing with agents etc etc etc. Quite the gamble, particularly considering when he bought.

Theres plenty of better things to do with six BTL deposits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One interesting thing that huth does offer viewers - is what a house looks like when its not had much maintenance over 25 years. They are a total mess.

Maintenance on 6 btl places over 25 years each ? That's easily 6 figures without even trying.

Have you pointed this put to your pal and if so what was his response ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BTL is in the main a play on rising prices while the rent hopefully covers the day to day expenses. Unless you are a slumlord or bought a long time ago the chances are you will not be making a good yield.

Hopefully we'll be hearing a bit more about the cost side risks of BTL once the West Brom BS case is resolved one way or another in the coming months.

Edited by Joan of The Tower

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All the houses were what I refer to as ex-council houses, he does not use an agent, as far as I am aware very little was required in the way of deposits, he

says he has to decorate top to bottom in between lets takes him, his mum and one of the kids a couple of days. I agree that for some BTL wizards the

maintenance cost, agent fees, etc will mean that there is very little return, and remember were up north so they didn't cost him half a million each. I agree with

the majority of this site, but we are friends so we are not going to fall out over it and as he says we will see in a few years who was right and who was wrong.

I would be very surprised if he was doing all this for no return at all I have known him from school and have always considered him a very straight forward honest individual.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surely they only have to declare any taxable income?

and losses...dont forget the losses.

and the expenses...dont want to be paying that interest without claiming your full relief.

Edited by Bloo Loo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All the houses were what I refer to as ex-council houses, he does not use an agent, as far as I am aware very little was required in the way of deposits, he

says he has to decorate top to bottom in between lets takes him, his mum and one of the kids a couple of days. I agree that for some BTL wizards the

maintenance cost, agent fees, etc will mean that there is very little return, and remember were up north so they didn't cost him half a million each. I agree with

the majority of this site, but we are friends so we are not going to fall out over it and as he says we will see in a few years who was right and who was wrong.

I would be very surprised if he was doing all this for no return at all I have known him from school and have always considered him a very straight forward honest individual.

I forgot the other essential for making BTL fly- valuing your own time at zero. What's the average tenancy duration, 2 years? To be simplistic, 75 such tenancies between 6 flats over 25 years, that's 450 days of redecorating in total, 1.75 working years approximately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   206 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.