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Nhs Needs Extra Cash And Overhaul, Say Health Bosses

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-29726934

Drastic changes to services and extra money is needed if the NHS in England is not to suffer, health bosses say.

A five-year plan for the NHS - unveiled by six national bodies - once again highlighted that an annual £30bn shortfall would open up by 2020.

It said changes, such as GP practices offering hospital services, would help to plug a large chunk of the gap.

But health chiefs said the NHS would still need above inflation rises of 1.5% over the coming years.

That works out at an extra £8bn a year above inflation by 2020. The current budget stands at £100bn a year, but all the political parties have already said this will be increased if they win power next year.

£100bn

NHS England budget for 2014-15

£30bn

Shortfall predicted by 2020

  • That could fund 100 hospitals

  • New ways of working could save £22bn

  • But NHS still needs an extra £8bn

No surprise that the solution to the problem is more money.

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Let's just scrap it save my NI and have private health care it would be much more efficient. Any homeowners who can;t afford it could then take a secured loan against their property payable on death.

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No chance of any party having the guts to bring in charges for seeing the GP, or for hospital stays. They do in certain 'high welfare' countries, including Sweden.

Over prescribing is surely also a problem - I have probably posted before about the 60 odd (free) prescription items stockpiled in a friend's bathroom, and I bet he's far from the only one.

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No chance of any party having the guts to bring in charges for seeing the GP, or for hospital stays. They do in certain 'high welfare' countries, including Sweden.

Over prescribing is surely also a problem - I have probably posted before about the 60 odd (free) prescription items stockpiled in a friend's bathroom, and I bet he's far from the only one.

......This is a big NHS wastage problem....I know a fair few...money both down the drain and the toilet.....the pharma companies wouldn't agree of course..... ;)

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-29726934

No surprise that the solution to the problem is more money.

NHS sees politicians of all flavours falling over themselves to talk it up.

No wonder they take advantage. They're negotiating from a position of strength.

Unlike taxpayers. Or those who died because they lost the NHS lottery and got months of promises[1] but no treatment.

[1] Making it too late to go abroad for treatment, or go private.

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this is a true story.

I had an order from a school for an office clock...they showed me the catalogue and asked me to procure it.

I contacted the manufacturers and they provided me with details of their disti..

They accepted my interest and sent me the retail catalogue.

It was the same catalogue as I was shown at the school, except is didnt have Essex County Supplies on its pages and cover.

And the Retail prices were lower in the retail catalogue.

And I got 40% off those prices.

Thus, I was able to undercut the Essex Group official supplies ( who were supplying hospitals in the area at the time too), and still make a profit.

Indeed, I was able to drive into west London and back and make the whole thing worthwhile.

I dont think this centralised saving exists any more...but I do know that NHS staff who are involved in a local hospital are aghast at the prices they pay for everyday stuff.

Savings in private enterprise are best made in the buying department..£1 saved is £1 saved...you make the sale then screw down the supplier for an extra margin.

Public Sector buyers seem to be the most lazy, or worse, corrupt buyers, or there is political interest in providing a source of very generous income for large corporate suppliers, or a combination of all 3.

AS for the school, I never got any more orders..The headmaster was told to buy through channels or else.

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this is a true story.

I had an order from a school for an office clock...they showed me the catalogue and asked me to procure it.

I contacted the manufacturers and they provided me with details of their disti..

They accepted my interest and sent me the retail catalogue.

It was the same catalogue as I was shown at the school, except is didnt have Essex County Supplies on its pages and cover.

And the Retail prices were lower in the retail catalogue.

And I got 40% off those prices.

Thus, I was able to undercut the Essex Group official supplies ( who were supplying hospitals in the area at the time too), and still make a profit.

Indeed, I was able to drive into west London and back and make the whole thing worthwhile.

I dont think this centralised saving exists any more...but I do know that NHS staff who are involved in a local hospital are aghast at the prices they pay for everyday stuff.

Savings in private enterprise are best made in the buying department..£1 saved is £1 saved...you make the sale then screw down the supplier for an extra margin.

Public Sector buyers seem to be the most lazy, or worse, corrupt buyers, or there is political interest in providing a source of very generous income for large corporate suppliers, or a combination of all 3.

AS for the school, I never got any more orders..The headmaster was told to buy through channels or else.

I have a friend who makes moulded buttons for a switch that his customer uses for a machine that is sold to the NHS.

His customer buys the swtich for £3 and sells it for £200, they felt so guilty they thought they'd better make a bespoke moulded button

These parts come out of a CPC catalogue

Woeful

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I have a friend who makes moulded buttons for a switch that his customer uses for a machine that is sold to the NHS.

His customer buys the swtich for £3 and sells it for £200, they felt so guilty they thought they'd better make a bespoke moulded button

These parts come out of a CPC catalogue

Woeful

Just thought of another one.

in the IT distribution chain, my firm was contacted by the service arm of an NHS IT repairers.

This is quite a while ago and they were charged with upgrading the standard size drives the NHS contract supplier was putting, to 200MB ( yes mega bytes)

our size was 212 and it was brand new...it sold trade for £200+VAT and delivery. (about £190 shipped and taxed to us)

They took 5.

then they took another 5.

they ordered 5 every so often. just sent a fax ( we hardly had email then).

This went on till the drive became obsolete. They wouldnt take my calls to discuss things as it was all done in the buying department, and they wouldnt accept sales calls for such a small order.

Anyway, anyone will know tht hard disk drives constantly fall in price. By the time they went obsolete, the price we paid was about £30.

Not once did they ask for a reduction. Being on commission I didnt complain, and in any case, they wouldnt talk to me, until, one day, I wrote to them to tell them they werent available any more..

I left the firm so dont know what happened then, but there you are.

Edited by Bloo Loo

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The simple explanation is that "it's not the buyer's money"

I was going to say that they wouldn't run their home like it, but they probably do.

I think it is because there is now an institutionalised public sector 'class', who have no idea about securing value, or what anything is worth.

Edited by LiveinHope

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The spending review only runs to I think 2015/16 so this must be based on current assumptions with Osb closing the deficit by what 2018. I guess NHS budget is set at 2010 in cash terms ? Not looked at the detail but imagine after 2020 the funding gap continues to grow. Implications for pay...

Edited by Ash4781

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this is a true story.

I had an order from a school for an office clock...they showed me the catalogue and asked me to procure it.

I contacted the manufacturers and they provided me with details of their disti..

They accepted my interest and sent me the retail catalogue.

It was the same catalogue as I was shown at the school, except is didnt have Essex County Supplies on its pages and cover.

And the Retail prices were lower in the retail catalogue.

And I got 40% off those prices.

Thus, I was able to undercut the Essex Group official supplies ( who were supplying hospitals in the area at the time too), and still make a profit.

Indeed, I was able to drive into west London and back and make the whole thing worthwhile.

I dont think this centralised saving exists any more...but I do know that NHS staff who are involved in a local hospital are aghast at the prices they pay for everyday stuff.

Savings in private enterprise are best made in the buying department..£1 saved is £1 saved...you make the sale then screw down the supplier for an extra margin.

Public Sector buyers seem to be the most lazy, or worse, corrupt buyers, or there is political interest in providing a source of very generous income for large corporate suppliers, or a combination of all 3.

AS for the school, I never got any more orders..The headmaster was told to buy through channels or else.

I heard of large private companies doing this too, having an agreed supplier and sky high item costs (in this case for office stationary) and were enforced to buy thru that channel

Must be a reason...

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The simple explanation is that "it's not the buyer's money"

I was going to say that they wouldn't run their home like it, but they probably do.

I think it is because there is now an institutionalised public sector 'class', who have no idea about securing value, or what anything is worth.

I have seen this too, in social circles

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I have seen this too, in social circles

As Bloo Loo's posts indicate, the private sector know the public sector buyers either have no clue, or care not about value for money.

Who is in the wrong, the private sector for taking advantage or the public sector's ignorance ? -

Flip it, is it the banks for lending too much or the home borrowers for over extending ?

I see it in people all around me. Vast sums wasted while I expend some effort to secure good deals. Colleagues spending £30k for something I'll pay £10k.

Previously it has taken some effort to get the right price, as you are up against public sector colleagues who will flash the cash.

However, the economic climate is favouring good deals, as those who flash the cash have, well, flashed it.

Edited by LiveinHope

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I heard of large private companies doing this too, having an agreed supplier and sky high item costs (in this case for office stationary) and were enforced to buy thru that channel

Must be a reason...

Yeah but they aren't asking for £8 Billion though

A nurse friend of mine holds back from shifts and works the same shift on agency for twice the price in a different hospital.

The waste is ridiculous, I'd like to see a party stand up to the NHS and stop treating it with kid gloves

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The problem with procurement in the public sector, is that there is a ton of bureaucracy in place, ostensibly to prevent corruption, but it has the effect of making procurement, even just modifying an existing order, slow and expensive.

It is quite common that taking into account the price of peoples time etc, a simple order can cost £100 just to process, for a complex procurement the costs (even if you end up not buying anything) can quickly escalate.

Given that environment it should not be surprising that the staff will do anything to avoid it.

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Health care is getting more expensive throughout the developed world as people live longer and lots of expensive tests and teatments are developed. It's not just an NHS issue. France and Germany (which are often said to have the best systems and are countries of a similar size) now spend 12% of GDP on health. High quality helath care is really, really expensive!! It's no surpise that we can't match their results by spending 9%. I've no particular love for the NHS model.

Edited by oldsport

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Yeah but they aren't asking for £8 Billion though

A nurse friend of mine holds back from shifts and works the same shift on agency for twice the price in a different hospital.

The waste is ridiculous, I'd like to see a party stand up to the NHS and stop treating it with kid gloves

Actually the main example i saw was a major car dealership chain that got bailed out by our own cash for clunkers scheme under one G Brown...

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