Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

ChumpusRex

Man Convicted For Posession Of "manga" Comics

Recommended Posts

Apparently, comics which depict child sexual exploitation exist. Now, we have legal precedent that these are classed as child pornography, even though they may be drawings or computer generated images.

A 39-year-old UK man has been convicted of possessing illegal cartoon drawings of young girls exposing themselves in school uniforms and engaging in sex acts. The case is believed to be the UK's first prosecution of illegal manga and anime images.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/10/uk-convicts-man-over-manga-sex-images-of-children/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh ffs this is just stupid now.

The argument that viewing images is not a victimless crime because real people are portrayed in those images (dubious rationale but ignore that for now) entirely collapses when they are cartoons; there isn't a victim. That poor guy who had some Simpsons cartoons got hammered by this too.

The things that you learn in school about belonging to a rational, modern society are lies. We are back to Salem witch trial hysteria.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watch out, you could be convicted for having an opinion that is not permitted. You could be classified as a 'troll' for instance and serve a couple of years.

Some of these trolls want locking up; they are truly horrible people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"It seems there are many thousands of people in this country, if they are less than careful, who may find themselves in that position, too."

More like having that position imposed on them by the State.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frankly if there are people who are really "into that kind of thing" then this is probably the most harmless way for them to get their kicks without affecting wider society.

It smacks a bit of the way we used to treat gays before 1967.

Do people really still think you can cure/change people's sexuality in this way?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frankly if there are people who are really "into that kind of thing" then this is probably the most harmless way for them to get their kicks without affecting wider society.

It smacks a bit of the way we used to treat gays before 1967.

Do people really still think you can cure/change people's sexuality in this way?

Some people obviously do ?

Of course, it begs the question that if the depiction of illegal activities in works of fiction or imagination should be banned then a pretty big chunk of the mainstream entertainment industry is going to have to disappear. Since the characters depicted in Manga and Anime comics do not exist and are not in any meaningful way realistic it is difficult to see how they can be harmed. The only rational argument against such literature is that encourage people to commit acts of paedophilia. However, that same argument might be applied to a huge range of other fiction that depicts crimes from murder to robbery. If people can be incited to illegal acts by one type of book or comic why would they not be similarly motivated to carry out such activities by other forms of literature. For example, the Bible contains plenty of examples of infanticide from the Almighty striking down the Egyptian first born through to Herod massacring the innocents. After all this is a book that contains the charming line

Happy shall he be, that takes and dashes your little ones against the stones.

Psalms 137:9

Surely on those grounds alone it should be banned for fear that others might be encouraged to do similar things to defenceless children

Moreover should not plod be round feeling the collars of all those who happen to possess a copy of this dangerous and inflammatory work which has surely caused more kids to suffer and to die down the centuries than puerile japanese comic w*nk mags..

As I have mentioned before the western world is becoming increasingly 'primitivist' in its outlook on the world and now finds it difficult to separate fantasy from reality. It also is starting to believe that images themselves possess some sort of juju power that will possess whoever comes into contact with them.Hardly surprising that the UK with its almost messianic worship of idols such as HPI is at the forefront of this trend

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These are CARTOONS. Nobody was harmed in their making, and they may be a bit naughty, but they are popular in Japan. This place gets more like Iran every day. Welcome back to the Middle Ages.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some people obviously do ?

Of course, it begs the question that if the depiction of illegal activities in works of fiction or imagination should be banned then a pretty big chunk of the mainstream entertainment industry is going to have to disappear. Since the characters depicted in Manga and Anime comics do not exist and are not in any meaningful way realistic it is difficult to see how they can be harmed. The only rational argument against such literature is that encourage people to commit acts of paedophilia. However, that same argument might be applied to a huge range of other fiction that depicts crimes from murder to robbery. If people can be incited to illegal acts by one type of book or comic why would they not be similarly motivated to carry out such activities by other forms of literature. For example, the Bible contains plenty of examples of infanticide from the Almighty striking down the Egyptian first born through to Herod massacring the innocents. After all this is a book that contains the charming line

Surely on those grounds alone it should be banned for fear that others might be encouraged to do similar things to defenceless children

Moreover should not plod be round feeling the collars of all those who happen to possess a copy of this dangerous and inflammatory work which has surely caused more kids to suffer and to die down the centuries than puerile japanese comic w*nk mags..

As I have mentioned before the western world is becoming increasingly 'primitivist' in its outlook on the world and now finds it difficult to separate fantasy from reality. It also is starting to believe that images themselves possess some sort of juju power that will possess whoever comes into contact with them.Hardly surprising that the UK with its almost messianic worship of idols such as HPI is at the forefront of this trend

We have no threats and are therefore starting to make them up. 50 years ago people couldnt worry about nonsense, they were too busy trying to get by.

I liken it to the theory that the increase in allergies is related to being over hygienic, and the immune system turning against harmless things just to stay active.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have no threats and are therefore starting to make them up. 50 years ago people couldnt worry about nonsense, they were too busy trying to get by.

I liken it to the theory that the increase in allergies is related to being over hygienic, and the immune system turning against harmless things just to stay active.

Yes. I think it's really rotten to victimise a bloke with a naughty Japanese comic, when there are evil bastardos out there, doing real harm, and we may have voted for them. :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A little googling reveals more about this case...from 2008

Judge Peter Bowers told unemployed Hoque, of Hardwick Road, South Bank, Middlesbrough, that he would not have been prosecuted had the images not been so realistic.

The judge said: “This was highly unusual case because the children involved were very much the product of a computer image. Effectively, they crossed the line of what is illegal and what is lawfully permitted. If it had been purely a comic strip it would have been perfectly lawful.”

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/3770181.New_legislation_needed_to_control_psuedo_photo_porn/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A little googling reveals more about this case...from 2008

Judge Peter Bowers told unemployed Hoque, of Hardwick Road, South Bank, Middlesbrough, that he would not have been prosecuted had the images not been so realistic.

The judge said: “This was highly unusual case because the children involved were very much the product of a computer image. Effectively, they crossed the line of what is illegal and what is lawfully permitted. If it had been purely a comic strip it would have been perfectly lawful.”

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/3770181.New_legislation_needed_to_control_psuedo_photo_porn/

A little googling reveals more about this case...from 2008

Judge Peter Bowers told unemployed Hoque, of Hardwick Road, South Bank, Middlesbrough, that he would not have been prosecuted had the images not been so realistic.

The judge said: “This was highly unusual case because the children involved were very much the product of a computer image. Effectively, they crossed the line of what is illegal and what is lawfully permitted. If it had been purely a comic strip it would have been perfectly lawful.”

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/3770181.New_legislation_needed_to_control_psuedo_photo_porn/

I think you'll find there is a big difference between pseudo-photos and manga comics. Why are you trying to equate them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you'll find there is a big difference between pseudo-photos and manga comics. Why are you trying to equate them?

enlighten me...

Ive quoted the judge from 2008 as reported and linked...same defendant. the names of the comics are irrelevant...its the reality of the images they find are breaking some law I am not aware of.

The OP states manga comics and possession thereof meaning guilt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if somebody were to draw two stick figures engaging in a sex act that's fine, but if they then write a caption under which says "the girl is 14" they automatically become illegal. Bonkers IMO.

I think you'll find there is a big difference between pseudo-photos and manga comics. Why are you trying to equate them?

What's the difference, I can totally see the argument that any real image has potentially caused damage somewhere to somebody, but can't see how a computer generated image is any different to a cartoon.

Don't get men wrong, I can't see why a normal, mentally healthy individual would want to enjoy such images, but I can't see a crime has been committed here, there is no victim. Sure you can argue that such people may escalate, but by the same extension of logic anybody who has seen Silence of the Lambs for example makes you a potential murder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if somebody were to draw two stick figures engaging in a sex act that's fine, but if they then write a caption under which says "the girl is 14" they automatically become illegal. Bonkers IMO.

What's the difference, I can totally see the argument that any real image has potentially caused damage somewhere to somebody, but can't see how a computer generated image is any different to a cartoon.

Don't get men wrong, I can't see why a normal, mentally healthy individual would want to enjoy such images, but I can't see a crime has been committed here, there is no victim. Sure you can argue that such people may escalate, but by the same extension of logic anybody who has seen Silence of the Lambs for example makes you a potential murder.

The Manga Comic relationship is a red herring.

Manga takes many forms and isnt just about porn, kiddie porn. Its a style of comic, apparently written backwards??

These manga were about kiddie porn.

The case is about the reality of the pictures...in the 2008 case, the judge said the images were illegal if the jury thought they could be confused with actual photos.

Still not sure what law this breaks.

http://www.theguardian.com/childrens-books-site/2014/feb/03/manga-top-ten-teens

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Manga takes many forms and isnt just about porn, kiddie porn. Its a style of comic, apparently written backwards??

All oriental comic books run "backwards".

I think you would be hard pushed to find a manga comic/anime that doesn't have distinctly sexualised young female characters, but they are not kiddie porn. It is just part of a style that is very over the top. They have impossibly cool vehicles, impractical but cool weapons, hair that breaks the laws of physics, and over-sexualised female characters, even the characters hair breaks the laws of physics (males and females). The female characters are young because the protagonists are generally teenagers, because the target market are teenagers and it plays into their fantasy world, not to provide smut to old men.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is something deeply disturbing about the authorities committing a crime by creating "child porn" with the intent of catching users.

Its an interesting point, especially in the context of Manga comics. Both are providing simulated child pornography and this is not an offence. Yet accessing this simulated child pornography is an offence. Yet no one has been harmed. I can understand the argument that you're catching potential predators, but as far as I can see potentially being something unlawful isn't against the law.

We really are going medieval. A new dark ages ruled by an untouchable elite, arbitrary laws and access to/development of technology ruled by a few adepts vetted and controlled by the state.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All oriental comic books run "backwards".

I think you would be hard pushed to find a manga comic/anime that doesn't have distinctly sexualised young female characters, but they are not kiddie porn. It is just part of a style that is very over the top. They have impossibly cool vehicles, impractical but cool weapons, hair that breaks the laws of physics, and over-sexualised female characters, even the characters hair breaks the laws of physics (males and females). The female characters are young because the protagonists are generally teenagers, because the target market are teenagers and it plays into their fantasy world, not to provide smut to old men.

Thanks...you learn something every day.

My link above is for manga childrens books...children, it appears in this context, are teenagers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its an interesting point, especially in the context of Manga comics. Both are providing simulated child pornography and this is not an offence. Yet accessing this simulated child pornography is an offence. Yet no one has been harmed. I can understand the argument that you're catching potential predators, but as far as I can see potentially being something unlawful isn't against the law.

We really are going medieval. A new dark ages ruled by an untouchable elite, arbitrary laws and access to/development of technology ruled by a few adepts vetted and controlled by the state.

Police entrapment.

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/07/police_sting_op.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It smacks a bit of the way we used to treat gays before 1967.

Did we really?

I think society mostly turned a blind eye: don't ask, don't tell. Some couples (Britten&Pears spring to mind) got away with being openly an item.

We are fed an official line that society was horribly intolerant. But the examples tell another story. Alan Turing should never have been driven to suicide, but as a man in his late 30s committing gross indecency with an under-age boy, he'd've been treated much worse today. Going back a couple of generations, Oscar Wilde - having courted trouble by going out of his way to provoke a vindictive aristocrat - was eventually done on the grounds principally of having been a grown man corrupting young lads.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You mean they have the money shot at the beginning. That's not right.

snip

it is quite common though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What tends to happen is that technology moves faster than law-making. There's therefore a period of moral panic as people try to clamp down on 'tides of filth' etc.

For example, before the mid nineteenth century it was practically impossible to have an 'obscene publication' because the technology did not exist to make them. All you had were privately printed 'erotica' books that were only available to a wealthy elite who could afford them.

What we're seeing in recent years is the authorities trying to cope with new forms of filth, faster than a general consensus can be established.

I'd argue also that child porn is partly a result of society becoming LESS sexualised, not more. In Victorian London paedos didn't need to sit at home reading about child abuse, they could simply go into town and pay for the real thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   202 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.