Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

200p

Video Games Have Had Their "lord Of The Flies" Moment

Recommended Posts

^Video discussion

In an un-winnable game, people might become psychopathic to strangers.

I guess that is why we have politicians to keep telling us that the "game" is winnable.

Article

Three men stand on a deserted street, their hands in the air. One wears a green T-shirt and a motorcycle helmet. The others wear bright yellow down jackets. They are surrounded by four armed men.

“Gentlemen,” a man called Klyka says, “we are going to play a very interesting game.”

He commands the hostages to drop their axes, then continues.

“This is DayZ,” he says. “Someone always has to die when players meet. But we’re going to make this interesting.”

He directs the men in yellow to sit cross-legged, 20 yards from each other, axes midway between them. There can be only one yellow jacket in this group, he says. The two men consider what he says. Klyka goes on. “When I shoot in the air you guys will run for your axes, and you’ll try to grab them.” The last man standing, he says, will be released.

http://www.wired.com/2014/05/psychopaths-dayz-rust

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Last time I played, if it looked like they had any decent gear and you had the drop on them it usually ended up in a very short engagement, swiftly followed by some corpse looting...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Today, I am taking the car to the carwash! It's like a video game, except you can really kill people with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Situations like video games don't change people's nature, they just reveal what was already there.

Many of the people you walk past in the supermarket would happily participate in genocide if they were living in a place and time where such behaviour was possible/encouraged.

That's just how some folks are put together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Today, I am taking the car to the carwash! It's like a video game, except you can really kill people with it.

These car wash things sound mighty dangerous...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Psychopath Next Door

In layman’s terms, a psychopath is someone without a conscience, says Dr. Adam Perkins, an expert in personality disorders who lectures at King’s College London. Such people have little to no capacity for empathy and can do “the kinds of things you could do, but you’d be bothered by guilt if you did so.”

Say, for instance, you’re shopping and see a woman leave her purse on the counter. You could easily take it without getting caught. If you’re a member of the 1 percent of the population that Perkins says is psychopathic, you just might do it—and sleep like a baby afterward.

“Psychopaths will do things without any compunction, any internal guilt,” Perkins says. “It’s a cognitive style that places little or no value on fair treatment of others.”

----

They were naked, each of them clutching a rock. They looked more like animals than people. Behind them, I could see a fireplace in which meat was cooking, and several chests I was sure held supplies.

“Hey man,” the guy nearest the door said. “What’s up?”

And then, I was overtaken by a sudden and forceful thought: I want what they have, and I will take it. I lifted my rock and smashed in the skull of the man nearest the door. I trampled his corpse and rushed toward his friend, who was now holding a pistol.

---

Back in the real world, on my couch in Mississippi, my adrenaline was pumping. I was overwhelmed by two emotions: disappointment at my failure to rob the men, and catharsis from beating a man to death.

That’s when I realized that my moral code in this virtual world was highly situational. When I was safe, clothed, and armed, my instinct was to help the girl that JB shot. When I was naked and alone, I felt no qualms about butchering a guy with a rock if I thought it would help me survive. What did I have to lose? It’s a lot harder to maintain one’s morals when you’re at the bottom of the food chain.

From that link http://www.wired.com/2014/05/psychopaths-dayz-rust

~Psychopaths get more out of life!?! It might be an essential evolutionary tool for the human race to make hard decisions quickly to survive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These car wash things sound mighty dangerous...

I've always wanted to go through nude in a convertible, with the lid down, smothered by big black ladies! :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In an un-winnable game, people might become psychopathic to strangers.

I guess that is why we have politicians to keep telling us that the "game" is winnable.

As mentioned in that YT discussion, this game and others like it are designed in such a way that psychopathic behaviour is rewarded. It'd be easy enough to construct an environment where empathy and collaboration trump pyschopathy but where's the fun in that?

After literally seconds of intensive Internet research (clinking on DayZ developer's Wikipedia page), a depressingly predictable connection with the Military Industrial Complex popped out...

Bohemia Interactive Australia (BIA) is a spinoff studio and was formed by BI and David Lagettie, where the joint development of a special military training simulation program, VBS1, began in December 2001. After thorough testing and field use (in cooperation with United States Marine Corps), VBS1 was made available in the fall of 2002 for qualified government clients and military organizations. On 21 May 2004, VBS1 underwent limited public distribution. On 14 August 2004 it was released for North America; distribution was handled by Coalescent Technologies. In 2008 most of development operations were moved to Prague, Czech Republic under newly formed Bohemia Interactive Simulations. Subsequently BIA was integrated as Asia-Pacific arm of Bohemia Interactive Simulations and Pete Morrison, previously Lead Developer, was appointed CEO. The company was acquired by The Riverside Company, a New York-based private equity firm, in January 2013.

There's a lot of it about. The MIC's connections with the movie industry are legion and symbiotic links with the game industry are a logical extension of that

How much of this is simply an attempt to make money by gratifying certain consumers' inclinations, how much is a conscious attempt to shape rather than simply reflect the prevailing zeitgeist and how much is talent-spotting are valid topics for investigation and consideration imho.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OP, I don't get your point. Care to set out in a few sentences what your position is?

No position as such.

Human nature doesn't change - if anyone has read the Lord of the Flies, you will find out that once the paper thin walls of "civilization" are taken away, all of us start to do what we can to better ourselves.

OR you can go about creating an online gamed based on basic primeval instincts and make a fortune from it (and the game players don't even know about it).

OR that the real game of life, has become much harder for new entrants....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No position as such.

Human nature doesn't change - if anyone has read the Lord of the Flies, you will find out that once the paper thin walls of "civilization" are taken away, all of us start to do what we can to better ourselves.

OR you can go about creating an online gamed based on basic primeval instincts and make a fortune from it (and the game players don't even know about it).

I had to read that when I was at school. It's full of bad science. If "Piggy" was short sighted, he would have diverging lenses which do not focus to a point, and you can't make a fire with them!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No position as such.

Human nature doesn't change - if anyone has read the Lord of the Flies, you will find out that once the paper thin walls of "civilization" are taken away, all of us start to do what we can to better ourselves.

OR you can go about creating an online gamed based on basic primeval instincts and make a fortune from it (and the game players don't even know about it).

An alternative take is that psychos in positions of influence want to convince us that we live in a world where people like them are *the best*.

From the wiki page on Adam Curtis' The Trap...

In this episode, Curtis examines the rise of game theory during the Cold War and the way in which its mathematical models of human behaviour filtered into economic thought.
The programme traces the development of game theory with particular reference to the work of John Nash (the mathematician portrayed in A Beautiful Mind), who believed that all humans were inherently suspicious and selfish creatures that strategised constantly. Using this as his first premise, Nash constructed logically consistent and mathematically verifiable models, for which he won the Bank of Sweden Prize in Economic Sciences, commonly referred to as the Nobel Prize in Economics. He invented system games reflecting his beliefs about human behaviour, including one he called "****** Your Buddy" (later published as "So Long Sucker"), in which the only way to win was to betray your playing partner, and it is from this game that the episode's title is taken. These games were internally coherent and worked correctly as long as the players obeyed the ground rules that they should behave selfishly and try to outwit their opponents,[citation needed] but when RAND's analysts tried the games on their own secretaries, they instead chose not to betray each other but to cooperate every time. This did not, in the eyes of the analysts, discredit the models but instead proved that the secretaries were unfit subjects. See U.S. Air Force Project RAND Memorandum RM-789-1, "Some Experimental Games," Merill M. Flood, 20 June 1952, pp. 15–16: "This is in contrast to the proposed theoretical solution in which the two secretaries would have shared the amount g only, with the first secretary receiving m in addition. Upon inquiry, it developed that they had entered into the experiment with the prior agreement to share all proceeds equally!"
What was not known at the time was that Nash was suffering from paranoid schizophrenia and, as a result, was deeply suspicious of everyone around him—including his colleagues—and was convinced that many were involved in conspiracies against him. It was this mistaken belief that led to his view of people as a whole that formed the basis for his theories. Footage of an older and wiser Nash was shown in which he acknowledges that his paranoid views of other people at the time were false.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People will do bad things in games because they know it's a game so they're not really doing anything bad. It doesn't tell you all that much about them as people. That said whilst I'm happy to shoot random game characters who will do the same to me without provocation I feel bad if I do anything unpleasant to the less aggressive ones. That's why psychopathic behaviour gets rewarded in games, to tempt you in to being bad - no temptation then no virtue in being good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It'd be easy enough to construct an environment where empathy and collaboration trump pyschopathy but where's the fun in that?

Its far from rare. Any team-based MMO depends on collaboration and altruism.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People will do bad things in games because they know it's a game so they're not really doing anything bad. It doesn't tell you all that much about them as people. That said whilst I'm happy to shoot random game characters who will do the same to me without provocation I feel bad if I do anything unpleasant to the less aggressive ones. That's why psychopathic behaviour gets rewarded in games, to tempt you in to being bad - no temptation then no virtue in being good.

Or, they could, probably for less dosh, fly to Syria and join ISIS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After literally seconds of intensive Internet research (clinking on DayZ developer's Wikipedia page), a depressingly predictable connection with the Military Industrial Complex popped out...

Uh, BIS just make the game engine. This game began as a mod to their ARMA series because it was so easily moddable and allowed large game maps, and now they've released a standalone version using that engine.

But, yes, the reason I've lost any interest in the game is because there's no downside to just killing everyone else and I've no desire to spend my time being repeatedly killed by nuts with better gear. You'll see similar behaviour in many other games, except those games normally make it detrimental, or at least give players similar equipment to start with so they're more evenly matched.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No position as such.

Human nature doesn't change - if anyone has read the Lord of the Flies, you will find out that once the paper thin walls of "civilization" are taken away, all of us start to do what we can to better ourselves.

OR you can go about creating an online gamed based on basic primeval instincts and make a fortune from it (and the game players don't even know about it).

OR that the real game of life, has become much harder for new entrants....

Lord of the Flies is propaganda. See...this is what happens if you don't live by OUR rules.

I read it again when over 50, saw right through it. Then I read another of his books, the POW one. Children should never be exposed to the writings of people that disturbed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Uh, BIS just make the game engine. This game began as a mod to their ARMA series because it was so easily moddable and allowed large game maps, and now they've released a standalone version using that engine.

But, yes, the reason I've lost any interest in the game is because there's no downside to just killing everyone else and I've no desire to spend my time being repeatedly killed by nuts with better gear. You'll see similar behaviour in many other games, except those games normally make it detrimental, or at least give players similar equipment to start with so they're more evenly matched.

The biggest problem with Day Z is the profusion of sniper rifles. There are simply far too many of them.

Sniper rifles should be very rare - almost impossible to get hold of. The main weapons should be assault class rifles, probably something like an AK-47 given the situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   211 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.