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Will Having Kids Soon Be Out Of Reach Economically?

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...For evidence to suggest that middle-class parents might already be getting priced out of parenthood, look to the national birthrate. It fell sharply in the recession but, unlike in previous economic rebounds, has continued to drop. This makes sense in financial context, given that most families haven't seen their incomes grow since the recovery began and the median net worth of households has actually fallen below what it was 15 years ago. Most families today don't have enough saved to meet basic needs for three months, let alone save for college or retirement.

Full article LA Times

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Eventually you get to our are 32 & 35, you say feck it and just get on with it. So what if you can't afford it, the state picks up the tab!

We are planning to start a family after Christmas, if things go well we should get our own home before hand, but if we can;t get a mortgage or something else happens it's going ahead anyway. To old now for alternative plans or to wait for a while.

So no, people will have kids whatever their economic status. Beeing poor hasn't stopped people in Africa/Asia breeding like rabbits and it won't here either. I suspect that there is a cohort like me (I know a few too) which will be following the same path. Student loan, no pension, no house - you just get to a point and say fect it I am going to do what I want to.

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In a huff I decided to walk around the "Golden Triangle" NR2 for a good half an hour.

All the little terraced houses full and sound of kids and life.

Turn the corner to the detached roads all dark with the odd room with some old dears watching tvs.

Just seems such an in-efficient use of space.

I wonder if it would be the same if the house was not also the pension.

Edited by Fromage Frais

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When was it ever affordable?

It's affordable for the elite. And for the underclass: those whose aspirations don't extend to 'respectability'.

Once upon a time, the middle classes managed it by the convenient arrangement of a 40-year-old man marrying a 20-year-old woman: he would contribute the financial security of middle age while she would bring the fertility of youth. That model is of course no longer so common.

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The increasing mortgage and housing costs has pressed down on the western birth rate for decades.

This is NOT a recent story.

Nelson Mandela was once asked about the introduction of birth control in South Africa and in a slightly flippant manner suggested that they needed to introduce mortgages into south africa.

He was correct.

I remember reading some ware that in Tunisia within a generation the average woman had 7 children down to 1.5.

80% of Tunisian families used to own their own home 4 x salary > in a generation not even being able to afford a flat 10-20 times salary.

Loads of land + Nearly no building control + loads of empty properties = still the same result

In all countries i have visited with the exception of Germany the same problem has manifested as here in the UK.

Edited by Fromage Frais

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Nelson Mandela was once asked about the introduction of birth control in South Africa and in a slightly flippant manner suggested that they needed to introduce mortgages into south africa.

Reference?

If he said any such thing, I'm sure the context was completely different to what some idiot followup assumes.

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Eventually you get to our are 32 & 35, you say feck it and just get on with it. So what if you can't afford it, the state picks up the tab!

We are planning to start a family after Christmas, if things go well we should get our own home before hand, but if we can;t get a mortgage or something else happens it's going ahead anyway. To old now for alternative plans or to wait for a while.

So no, people will have kids whatever their economic status. Beeing poor hasn't stopped people in Africa/Asia breeding like rabbits and it won't here either. I suspect that there is a cohort like me (I know a few too) which will be following the same path. Student loan, no pension, no house - you just get to a point and say fect it I am going to do what I want to.

Pffft, the earlier you start, the earlier they ****** off

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Eventually you get to our are 32 & 35, you say feck it and just get on with it. So what if you can't afford it, the state picks up the tab!

We are planning to start a family after Christmas, if things go well we should get our own home before hand, but if we can;t get a mortgage or something else happens it's going ahead anyway. To old now for alternative plans or to wait for a while.

So no, people will have kids whatever their economic status. Beeing poor hasn't stopped people in Africa/Asia breeding like rabbits and it won't here either. I suspect that there is a cohort like me (I know a few too) which will be following the same path. Student loan, no pension, no house - you just get to a point and say fect it I am going to do what I want to.

This is the same logic that made people dive into mortgages they couldn't afford. There are a lot of people who become parents without bothering to work out how the family budget is going to work.

Getting it wrong (and finding out too late that the state benefits don't fill the gap) is a major cause of divorce.

If you compare the price of houses in Surrey or West Africa or Tyneside against the salary you can earn in those areas - you will find significant differences.

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Eventually you get to our are 32 & 35, you say feck it and just get on with it. So what if you can't afford it, the state picks up the tab!

We are planning to start a family after Christmas, if things go well we should get our own home before hand, but if we can;t get a mortgage or something else happens it's going ahead anyway. To old now for alternative plans or to wait for a while.

So no, people will have kids whatever their economic status. Beeing poor hasn't stopped people in Africa/Asia breeding like rabbits and it won't here either. I suspect that there is a cohort like me (I know a few too) which will be following the same path. Student loan, no pension, no house - you just get to a point and say fect it I am going to do what I want to.

I guess the point is that once you hit your thirties, and certainly mid thirties, you are already past peak fertility - and some couples who wait until then to see if things get better financially, might well be out of luck.

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In Britain you get free education, free healthcare, free nursery places (2.5 days a week), free money in child benefit and tax credits.

So other then rent which youll be paying anyway its not that much more expensive to have a kid.

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This is the same logic that made people dive into mortgages they couldn't afford. There are a lot of people who become parents without bothering to work out how the family budget is going to work.

When im on my vinegar stroke logic is bang out of the window.

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In Britain you get free education, free healthcare, free nursery places (2.5 days a week), free money in child benefit and tax credits.

So other then rent which youll be paying anyway its not that much more expensive to have a kid.

You've not got children, have you?

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Well I respectfully disagree.

Get rid of the other half she'll be the one costing you all the money.

Other then rent everything is cheaper than its ever been to raise a kid.

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Get rid of the other half she'll be the one costing you all the money.

Other then rent everything is cheaper than its ever been to raise a kid.

I think the problem is that too many people want to spoil their kids tremendously.

They budget for things the think they need but do not.

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When was it ever affordable?

It's affordable for the elite. And for the underclass: those whose aspirations don't extend to 'respectability'.

Once upon a time, the middle classes managed it by the convenient arrangement of a 40-year-old man marrying a 20-year-old woman: he would contribute the financial security of middle age while she would bring the fertility of youth. That model is of course no longer so common.

30 is no longer an age associated with middle class financial/domestic security. If we stay in this economic mess for another decade, 40 won't be either.

Edited by Dorkins

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He was correct.

I remember reading some ware that in Tunisia within a generation the average woman had 7 children down to 1.5.

80% of Tunisian families used to own their own home 4 x salary > in a generation not even being able to afford a flat 10-20 times salary.

Loads of land + Nearly no building control + loads of empty properties = still the same result

In all countries i have visited with the exception of Germany the same problem has manifested as here in the UK.

I think the german census bureau just lies.

Everytime I go to Germany there are kids all over the place. German kids too, even in the middle of big cities... not Islamic ones with mini burkhas.

Beware the germans. I think theyre re-arming. stealthily breeding and what not.

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In a huff I decided to walk around the "Golden Triangle" NR2 for a good half an hour.

All the little terraced houses full and sound of kids and life.

Turn the corner to the detached roads all dark with the odd room with some old dears watching tvs.

Just seems such an in-efficient use of space.

I wonder if it would be the same if the house was not also the pension.

Indeed

It's a national disgrace

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30 is no longer an age associated with middle class financial/domestic security. If we stay in this economic mess for another decade, 40 won't be either.

The state makes any age domestically secure, the rules have changed

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Get rid of the other half she'll be the one costing you all the money.

Other then rent everything is cheaper than its ever been to raise a kid.

Whatever I did to the other half, all but one of the things you mention are not available to me. Which I think is the point of this (American) article

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I think the problem is that too many people want to spoil their kids tremendously.

They budget for things the think they need but do not.

Growing up "not being spoilt" stunted my development in ways I am only just finding out, 30 years later. To set out such a "not being spoilt" agenda when children are nothing more than 70 years of potential opportunities is quite a dogmatic view of world that I hope does not come back to haunt.

For every child that thrives under such stimulus/stigma I see more and more adults who didn't. Given that your children are your own genetic progeny, chances are you know what would be best for them. If it's dogma maybe you should steer them toward the church?

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30 is no longer an age associated with middle class financial/domestic security. If we stay in this economic mess for another decade, 40 won't be either.

I know. At 40 I was in the extreme precariat: the point in my life when I'd've been a lot better-off on the dole. It was the year I turned 43 when ADSL reached my part of the country and I first started to make enough to get by. Though still not as much as the dole package net of housing costs: that came the following year.

But then, that was a formula for the middle classes. And they say 60 is the new 40, so by that measure I'm ahead of the game with financial security coming between those ages. B) Of course it comes to different people at different times of life!

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