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Beagleclarke

Me Vs A 'subject To Sale' Offer

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Hello, I've put an offer of £140000 on a house that's been on the market for four months (asking price £169950 but no upstairs bathroom and very dated interior in a relatively slow moving rural area where prices tend to drop before they sell). The house is being sold by the children (all in their 60's) of an elderly woman who died. All the heirs are scattered to the four winds - none of them live locally to the house - so I think they might be keen to get it off their hands and save on travelling over to the house to turn on the heat etc as the winter sets in. The EA certainly hinted at this. By the way, there are two EAs on the case - is this good or bad for me? Would they be in competition or working together?

I am chain free and I have £80,000 in cash and £60000 mortgage in principle. Someone else put an offer of £145000 on while the vendor was considering my offer. Their offer is 'subject to sale'. The vendor is still considering my offer, I'm not sure if they've rejected the other offer or are considering it too (would I be told if it had been rejected?). I'm not buying as an investment or anything like that, I want to set up home as I plan to start a family soon and my MIL is terminally ill, so we need to get out of rented so she can come and stay with us as we are her carers.

I'm new to the property market in terms of buying, my cash deposit comes from an inherited house that I sold privately to a family member, so all of this is quite new to me. Should I be worried and consider upping my offer? Or is a subject to sale offer not really competition for a quick transaction even with a 5k difference? I made my offer 5 days ago. Is this a long time to wait for a response? Or this this a positive sign? I don't have much more money to throw in, perhaps another 3k at a stretch. Is there anything else I ca do, besides upping my offer, to make us appear more attractive or to sweeten the deal? I'm not sure as I really am new to this game. Any advice appreciated!

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I know a lot would disagree with me, but.. If it was me I would hasstle the agent every day and ensure that I bid 5k more than the other bidder (But not going over a comfortable limit). I lost out on quite a few houses in Ireland which I later regretted not getting.

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Two EA's is generally bad, they'll compete with one another to screw you at the last minute.

5 days is a long time, generally they keep in good contact with you unless some communication break down, i.e someone going on Holiday. However in your case there are multiple vendors that might need to OK the offer. It's best to give the EA a call and get an update, there is no harm in doing that.

Just spend what your happy to spend and don't panic another will come along.

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I know a lot would disagree with me, but.. If it was me I would hasstle the agent every day and ensure that I bid 5k more than the other bidder (But not going over a comfortable limit). I lost out on quite a few houses in Ireland which I later regretted not getting.

The issue with going 5k over the other bidder is that he doesn't know how good the other offer is. When the EA's would call me back asking me to increase my offer I'd learn the other offer was assuming they could get a 95% mortgage. So I questioned how someone with a decent deposit should be competing against an over leveraged offer. I walked away because of the silliness and the offer eventually fell through of course and house is still on the market 6 months later at an increased price which is never just never going to sell.

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The other offer is 'subject to sale'. Should I not leave my offer as is unless they accept the other offer and then perhaps offer my 3k limit more? If the other bidder is waiting to sell a house they could be waiting for some time. In the meantime the vendors are having to agree on who will go and stay in the house this week, and put oil in the tank, and top up the electric etc (they obviously care about keeping it in good condition as they have been doing this, remember they are in their 60's and live all over the place, not locally). I am a newbie so I could definitely be wrong, but for me I'd prefer 5k less for a quick sale than wait for an interminable amount of time on a subject to sale deal and, in the meantime, be down money on insurance, heat, light, etc on an empty house? I could well be naive, as I am new to the whole thing, but that doesn't seem like a good deal to me all things taken into consideration. We can complete as soon as it is humanly possible to do so. We have a solictor engaged and are ready to go.

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I did call the EA, by the way. He said he'd heard nothing yet, but he took that as a positive sign. They are living all over the place so I understand it taking them longer to all get together to discuss it.

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I would perhaps chase them up in a few more days, but remind them that you are viewing other houses/considering putting an offer down on another. Bear in mind that rural EAs/vendors tend not to be as quick as more urban ones.

If you need to move urgently, that will focus your mind a bit - but as far as possible try not to reveal this to the EAs. Always give the impression that you have plenty to see, and you are looking for value - not working towards a particular budget.

Another buyer who oddly enough has offered more cash than you suddenly appearing is standard EA operating procedure. It's likely to be a pack of lies. Especially if the place has been on the market for ages.

Bear in mind you need to budget for moving costs/solicitor fees/surveyor etc. That could easily be another £2-3K so be wary of maxing out.

Edited by StainlessSteelCat

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Your call.

It could be a phantom offer but I recently lost out at best offers, not because I didn't offer enough but a cash sale was preferred over my no chain, 75% ltv offer. There was probably £5,000 - £10,000 in that. I won't know for sure till the sold price comes through. That was an elderly person going into a home.

But with some vendors and agents, there's no accounting for logic.

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I'm not in a hurry to move in that we aren't under pressure at all. No kids or anything and not much in the way of furniture etc to store. We are staying with family for as long as we need. The estate agent has made it clear to me that he thinks I'm the better option, but then the other EA is the one who has the 'other offer', if it exists, so 'my' EA would be gunning for me in order to get the commission (if I understand it properly?) If they were lying about the other offer wouldn't they pretend it wasn't subject to sale?

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Remember the agent does not work for you.

I know his interests are with the vendor, but he has no other offers on the table so I thought he'd be keen to close the deal. He certainly Let me know that he thinks my offer is stronger than the competing offer.

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Is the property of the other buyers under offer, or anything like nearing completion? If not they could be dithering about for ages, and still eventually pull out. I would try to get the EA to emphasise that you are chain free and ready to go. Of course EAs are expected to get the best price for vendors, but I would have thought the vast majority would be eager to close a deal rather than hang on for what is only a small difference, and still maybe lose it after weeks or months of faffing.

Probate sales can be tricky when there are several people involved. A house next door to a colleague was on the market for ages, because one lot was anxious to get it sold before more winter heating costs/more expense/hassle of keeping the garden under control, while the other party refused to 'give it away'. But it did go for a relatively low price in the end.

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I know his interests are with the vendor, but he has no other offers on the table so I thought he'd be keen to close the deal. He certainly Let me know that he thinks my offer is stronger than the competing offer.

But you upping your offer would make 'your' agent's life a lot easier. It's obvious that's what he's waiting for, hence the pause.

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Apparently the other person's house is on the market but not under offer or anything.

This might seem silly, but do you think it's worth offering to fill the oil tank, paying for the garden to be done, and to take care of the house clearance, this kind of thing that's a hassle that the vendors still need to handle? If they accept my offer of course. Just to make the transaction as smooth as possible for them. I'm thinking that we have 4 people in their 60's here who live far from the property for whom taking care of it is a pain in the bum and the winter is on the way. Covering these kind of out of pocket expenses for them now might sway them in my direction? I'd be basically saying "take my offer and you're guaranteed a quick sale plus you don't have to be out of pocket for garden maintenance and heat etc while you wait for closing." That vs an extra (at the moment non proceedable) 5k that might never materialise or that might take so long to come that you've already spent 5k in insurance and bills. These things would also be to my benefit if I'm taking possession of the house eventually. Just a thought about how to make my offer more attractive without resorting to upping my offer yet...

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Apparently the other person's house is on the market but not under offer or anything.

This might seem silly, but do you think it's worth offering to fill the oil tank, paying for the garden to be done, and to take care of the house clearance, this kind of thing that's a hassle that the vendors still need to handle? If they accept my offer of course. Just to make the transaction as smooth as possible for them. I'm thinking that we have 4 people in their 60's here who live far from the property for whom taking care of it is a pain in the bum and the winter is on the way. Covering these kind of out of pocket expenses for them now might sway them in my direction? I'd be basically saying "take my offer and you're guaranteed a quick sale plus you don't have to be out of pocket for garden maintenance and heat etc while you wait for closing." That vs an extra (at the moment non proceedable) 5k that might never materialise or that might take so long to come that you've already spent 5k in insurance and bills. These things would also be to my benefit if I'm taking possession of the house eventually. Just a thought about how to make my offer more attractive without resorting to upping my offer yet...

NO NO NO!

We've talked about this before, the mythical 'other buyer' who pops up when an otherwise unbid for house goes under an offer. Say to your agent, in writing:

"I have several other houses I am interested in. I need a firm Yes or No by XXX, or I will withdraw my offer."

Then leave it. I bet you 20 quid you will get a call.

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NO NO NO!

We've talked about this before, the mythical 'other buyer' who pops up when an otherwise unbid for house goes under an offer. Say to your agent, in writing:

"I have several other houses I am interested in. I need a firm Yes or No by XXX, or I will withdraw my offer."

Then leave it. I bet you 20 quid you will get a call.

I imagine you could well be right. I plan to leave it till Monday and then let him know I'm looking elsewhere. I am anyway, this is true, but I would really like this one.

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wherebee and Mrs Bear are absolutely right. Emphasise you are chain free, and ready to go (could complete quickly)- but also in no hurry/have plenty to look at/looking for value. Identify a conveyancer/surveyor you might use. Don't offer to help the vendor out with anything related to the house until you've completed the sale.

Note that the EA only gets paid when the house is sold so their bias lends towards ensuring that happens as quickly as possible for a decent(ish) price that the vendor will accept. An extra grand or two on the final price makes no odds to them - if it means it takes them months more to shift it.

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wherebee and Mrs Bear are absolutely right. Emphasise you are chain free, and ready to go (could complete quickly)- but also in no hurry/have plenty to look at/looking for value. Identify a conveyancer/surveyor you might use. Don't offer to help the vendor out with anything related to the house until you've completed the sale.

Note that the EA only gets paid when the house is sold so their bias lends towards ensuring that happens as quickly as possible for a decent(ish) price that the vendor will accept. An extra grand or two on the final price makes no odds to them - if it means it takes them months more to shift it.

This is good advice. Thank you. I do have a conveyancing solictor already lined up. She's the solictor who handles all my FIL's property exchanges so she has a good relationship with the family. The EA and vendor are aware that I'm good to go, though I'll emphasise that I'm not in a rush either.

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We've made a similar offer to you. We offered 235 on a property listed at 280. Both offers are around 82/83% of the asking price.

The property we've offered on is in my opinion well over priced (hence our offer) though the wife thinks the men in white suits might come take me away for making such a 'low' offer.

This is for 3 bed detached property, that does have potential to be extended so I do see it as a potential 'forever' home.

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We've made a similar offer to you. We offered 235 on a property listed at 280. Both offers are around 82/83% of the asking price.

The property we've offered on is in my opinion well over priced (hence our offer) though the wife thinks the men in white suits might come take me away for making such a 'low' offer.

This is for 3 bed detached property, that does have potential to be extended so I do see it as a potential 'forever' home.

Are they considering your offer? Obviously my offer wasn't considered all that bad or I feel they would have rejected it by now!

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Are they considering your offer? Obviously my offer wasn't considered all that bad or I feel they would have rejected it by now!

The vendors are on holiday so I don't expect a quick response. I anticipate the vendors are deluded as to the value of the property, and will reject. But having found a house we like it seems silly not to make an offer.

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The vendors are on holiday so I don't expect a quick response. I anticipate the vendors are deluded as to the value of the property, and will reject. But having found a house we like it seems silly not to make an offer.

The house I bought in Oz went to auction and the agent pressured me to offer more to 'seal the deal' beforehand as there were 'three professional couples and a landlord very interested and turning up on Saturday'.

I didn't attend the auction (auctions are a idiots playground, in my view) They contacted me afterwards and said that there was another bidder offering X over my bid. I said my offer was the highest I would go, and as I had all the finance lined up, they knew my offer was solid. I also said I was waiting on another property going to auction the following weekend (true)

4 days later I got the phone call and the house. Got it for 12% below the auction price indicated, in what all the papers said was a 'rising market'.

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Quick update. Our offer of £235 was rejected. So still looking, might put in a slightly higher offer in 3 or 4 weeks if nothing else has appeared.

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Humm Greedy probates, but from their standpoint they are in no hurry so were happy to wait for the extra cash.

Did they accept the other higher offer? If not then wait it out, they will come down to your price eventually.

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