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On Fivelive now the BBC presenter Rachel Burden asks a caller whether there is racism involved in UKIP.

Several times this morning on Fivelive they have spoken to voters about why they voted UKIP and immigration has come up as the response.

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Oddly enough, I've always thought that 'Far Right' and 'Hard Left' actually end up quite close on some ideas, a bit like the ends of a mobious strip.

Both tend to be quite authoritarian in terms of implementation so you aren't far wrong in that respect.

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On Fivelive now the BBC presenter Rachel Burden asks a caller whether there is racism involved in UKIP.

Several times this morning on Fivelive they have spoken to voters about why they voted UKIP and immigration has come up as the response.

Good old BBC theyre another part of the establishment that UKIP would no doubt deal with by ridding the nation of this overpowerful parasite.

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UKIP is only the catalyst to dismantling the entrenched three party carousel of the 1%. I doubt very much will change with Nigel Farage in charge of our train set but it's less about what happens after the 2015 election and more about 2 or 3 general elections hence forward. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Edited by longtomsilver2

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Both tend to be quite authoritarian in terms of implementation so you aren't far wrong in that respect.

Right wing means small non interfering govt., its just the GUARDIAN and its readers are thick as pigs muck and seem to think that this Tory govt are somehow rightwing as they give to the corporation. Its socialism but just for a different client.

Right wing is good, left wing is bad not the other way round as the confused electorate hasnt the intelligence to figure out.

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BBC News just had a short interview with Ed Miliband........... Boy, did he look pissed-off :lol::lol::lol:

Farage was on radio 4 and he said vote Tory get labour and he is right UKIP came second in the one bi election. Just needed a few more Tory votes to vote UKIP and they would have won.

I am sure he was smiling when he said it.

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The fact that UKIP is regarded the only realistic alternative to what currently exists is a sad reflection of what the UK has become. A real alternative needs to be a bit more than just appealing to the worst prejudices of labour voters in Labour seats and Tory voters in Tory seats. Scapegoat politics will not produce any positive change.

Agreed. If I was a couple of decades older and had a decent nest egg I'd be escaping to the French countryside to observe it all from afar.

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Right wing means small non interfering govt., its just the GUARDIAN and its readers are thick as pigs muck and seem to think that this Tory govt are somehow rightwing as they give to the corporation. Its socialism but just for a different client.

Right wing is good, left wing is bad not the other way round as the confused electorate hasnt the intelligence to figure out.

Buckers is quite right when they suggest that hard left and far right have a lot in common - because both extremes suspect dictatorship/an authoritarian government is they way to achieve their ideal.

Suggest you take a look at:

http://www.politicalcompass.org

Both Labour and the Tories are right wing, and lean towards authoritarian. If you want small government, vote for a libertarian party of either right or left wing flavour. Although the Randian libertarians would probably argue it's impossible to be leftwing and libertarian. Personally, I find that an utterly depressing world view.

Bear in mind, of course, that politicians will say anything to get into power - which is why when given my politics are somewhat left and more anarchist than the greens I vote for no-one.

Edited by StainlessSteelCat

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UKIP got almost 60 percent of the vote yesterday in Clacton, watching question time last night and judging from the hostility of the audience to the UKIP panellist you would have thought that UKIP were on 6 percent.

The BBC really have no shame do they.

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UKIP is only the catalyst to dismantling the entrenched three party carousel of the 1%. I doubt very much will change with Nigel Farage in charge of our train set but it's less about what happens after the 2015 election and more about 2 or 3 general elections hence forward. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

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I think the Heywood result was astonishing. Also the very low key coverage on the BBC new this morning, to what is a huge story, was terrible, so much so that I too am voting UKIP

Well done Nigel!

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I think the Heywood result was astonishing. Also the very low key coverage on the BBC new this morning, to what is a huge story, was terrible, so much so that I too am voting UKIP

Well done Nigel!

Agreed, perhaps more important than the Clacton win. I would like to know the postal vote situation for Heywood.

Edited by Mr. Miyagi

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UKIP got almost 60 percent of the vote yesterday in Clacton, watching question time last night and judging from the hostility of the audience to the UKIP panellist you would have thought that UKIP were on 6 percent.

The BBC really have no shame do they.

A few day's ago I cancelled my tv licence. Glad I done it now. Hadn't watch tv for four year anyway spend all my time on here.

It was the BBC bit with Nick Robinson on Scotland that got me.

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Make no mistake, I dont think UKIP Mps would be any different that the lot we have there at present.

I think the majority of them are less managed than the reds and blue. There's no intensive training course to get them fully media savvy. I think labour have a 4 day course on dealing with media questioning so people can evade any difficult questions.

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UKIP got almost 60 percent of the vote yesterday in Clacton, watching question time last night and judging from the hostility of the audience to the UKIP panellist you would have thought that UKIP were on 6 percent.

The BBC really have no shame do they.

I noticed that. Another stitch up for the minnow with the main parties and the guest (raving leftie this week) ganging up on the UKIP guy - and a really hostile audience spinning the same rather insulting lines about people who vote UKIP.

Bring it on. It is some sort of change and it will be refreshing. Personally after decades of them screwing things up for the majority I've had enough of LibLabCon.

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What Labour social experiment?

Let's have a look...

HQeoNYF.jpg

latest-im-stats.png

Net migration shot up from 1997 onwards, under Labour's watch. Bearing in mind this is net migration, so obviously actual immigration figures are a lot higher, but some people (like yourself) leave the country.

Labour changed the rules on immigration (i.e. abolishing the Primary Purpose Rule in 1997), so they are at least partly responsible for these figures. Some of it is also down to EU rules of which Labour aren't perhaps directly responsible for, but implicitly support by their pro-EU stance.

I call it a "social experiment" because I'm not sure whether anyone actually voted for this massive influx of people.

And just in case you spout the "Gordon Brown" response, no I'm not against immigrants or racist. I am against the kind of open access immigration we've seen since 1997, and that has continued under the Coalition. It is not about prejudice. It's simply that we can't continue to stuff hundreds of thousands more people every year into the same % of land, without there being economic, social and (as we're now seeing) political consequences.

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Let's have a look...

I call it a "social experiment" because I'm not sure whether anyone actually voted for this massive influx of people.

And just in case you spout the "Gordon Brown" response, no I'm not against immigrants or racist. I am against the kind of open access immigration we've seen since 1997, and that has continued under the Coalition. It is not about prejudice. It's simply that we can't continue to stuff hundreds of thousands more people every year into the same % of land, without there being economic, social and (as we're now seeing) political consequences.

The irony is, objectively speaking, parties that want out of the EU are demonstrably the least xenophobic, immigration policy wise.

Other than direct racial quotas, nothing is more xenophobic than giving Latvians automatic right of entry, but Liberians no such rights, purely because the Latvians are Latvians, rather than skills they possess as individuals. Its clearly xenophobic to allow a drunk, unemployed no hoper who lives 5 miles west of the Latvian/Russian border these rights but a skilled Russian no such rights, just because he lives 5 miles east of the Russia/Latvia border.

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Right wing means small non interfering govt., its just the GUARDIAN and its readers are thick as pigs muck and seem to think that this Tory govt are somehow rightwing as they give to the corporation. Its socialism but just for a different client.

Right wing is good, left wing is bad not the other way round as the confused electorate hasnt the intelligence to figure out.

Erm.. No. Rightwing does not really mean 'non-interfering government'. In fact small government is more associated with liberal than rightwing politics. In fact conservatism generally requires restrictions on what people can and can't do, and that requires intervention. There are no sharp lines in politics, hence why totalitarianism from the left or the right merge.

Anyway, back on topic... What's interesting about UKIP, I think, is that it is a direct counter-point to the current political consensus. Currently we have libertarian policies for the poor (framed as scroungers, should be self-sufficient and exposed to the free market, free movement of labour, off-shoring, under cutting wages, reduction of worker's right etc.) And we have socialist interventionism for the rich - bank bailouts, QE, turning a blind-eye to corporate tax evasion etc.

In reality we have massive state socialism subsidies across the board because we cannot risk destitution of the masses while keeping the rich afloat via QE and other bailouts.

UKIP offer the polar opposite, populist interventionalism for the poor (restricting immigration, banning zero hours contracts etc.) And libertarian capitalism for the rich - allowing banks to fail, etc. (Although they're pretty weak on policies for this bit) No wonder the established parties and the mainstream media hate them.

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Last night's BBC 1 election coverage was led by Andrew Neil with UKIP, LibDem (for the early part of the show), Labour and Conservative representatives.

The UKIP person (female - Diane James) came across very well and was very bright and impressive - and even answered questions :o and didn't flannel (something usually unheard of from UK politicians).

The other three just came across as usual - robotic, dull, uninspiring, unimaginative and complacent using the usual glib stock phrases, stock responses and stock jargon along with the usual lies about the economy and immigration etc. "Going to work hard, must get the message across better and it's just a by-election, it's either Milliband or Cameron in 2015 .............." etc and so on - in their denial of what was happening right in front of them.

It was very reminiscent of the period as the 1997 general election was approaching when the Conservatives were taking a real pummelling - they said they were taking notice but they knew best and nothing changed and they got demolished at the 1997 general election. Last night both Labour and the Conservatives were coming out with that same old rubbish (and earlier in the programme the LibDem as well). They were behaving as a political cartel would be expected to behave.

Last night was a real breakthrough in UK politics.

Well done Nigel Farage and UKIP.

The Rochester and Strood by-election is in 4 weeks time.

Edited by billybong

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I think the Heywood result was astonishing. Also the very low key coverage on the BBC new this morning, to what is a huge story, was terrible, so much so that I too am voting UKIP

Well done Nigel!

Yup. Wouldn't surprise me if it was held a week later, with the Clacton boost, or if Farage didn't write off Heywood as a Labour win and instead put as much time into campaigning up there as he did in Clacton, they would have got the seat.

Say what you want about UKIP, they have a lot of grassroots energy. Cameron, while he has gained a few youthful PPE graduates to do the focus group stuff and look all metropolitan and worldly, has basically annihilated the bread and butter canvassing tranche of the tory party, many of whom are energetically campaigning for UKIP, probably a lot more strongly than they ever did for the tories given their utter hatred of Cameron.

The funny thing is, much of this could have been avoided if Cameron didn't campaign against AV. Tories would pick up a lot of 2nd preferences, much like in French elections that stop the FN ever getting the presidency. But he would rather maintain the cozy lab-con post war duopoly than allow any other parties have an influence on the direction of policy.

Well, how's that working out, Dave? If tories couldn't win outright under the current electoral system in the middle of a labour recession, with a deeply unpopular Gordon Brown, with the centre left split between Lab and Lib and with, in 2010 UKIP still a very minor force, the tories will never win outright again.

I suspect, in the few months before the 2015 GE, as the coalition is no longer sacrosanct, the tories will suddenly go right, realizing it has lost a lot more votes to the right than it has gained from the centre. However, Cameron truly is hated on the right. Policy changes or rhetoric wont be enough. UKIPPERs will likely only return if David Davis or someone replaces Cameron BEFORE the election. Cameron is power hungry, so I don't see that happening. Unless something dramatic changes, tories will lose in 2015, and the party will resume tearing itself apart in another ugly leadership battle.

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OK so they now have as many MPs as the Respect party, and the Greens. Astonishing given the relative difference in coverage.

The difference in coverage is because UKIP is a major force in EU elections unlike Respect and the Greens. Also of course Respect only stands in a few seats so can't be compared to UKIP (or the Greens) in any way whatsoever.

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Last night's BBC 1 election coverage was led by Andrew Neil with UKIP, LibDem (for the early part of the show), Labour and Conservative representatives.

The UKIP person (female - Diane James) came across very well and was very bright and impressive - and even answered questions :o and didn't flannel (something usually unheard of from UK politicians).

The other three just came across as usual - robotic, dull, uninspiring, unimaginative and complacent using the usual glib stock phrases, stock responses and stock jargon along with the usual lies about the economy and immigration etc. "Going to work hard, must get the message across better and it's just a by-election, it's either Milliband or Cameron in 2015 .............." etc and so on - in their denial of what was happening right in front of them.

It was very reminiscent of the period as the 1997 general election was approaching when the Conservatives were taking a real pummelling - they said they were taking notice but they knew best and nothing changed and they got demolished at the 1997 general election. Last night both Labour and the Conservatives were coming out with that same old rubbish (and earlier in the programme the LibDem as well). They were behaving as a political cartel would be expected to behave.

Last night was a real breakthrough in UK politics.

Well done Nigel Farage and UKIP.

The Rochester and Strood by-election is in 4 weeks time.

Patrick o Flynn and Diane James do indeed come across well...its quite a change from the unhinged (Bloom) to the laughable (Sinclaire)

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I think the Heywood result was astonishing. Also the very low key coverage on the BBC new this morning, to what is a huge story, was terrible, so much so that I too am voting UKIP

Well done Nigel!

Indeed. I don't think the media understand yet. The more they ignore, sideline or insult/attack UKIP, the more people will vote UKIP. Even if only out of sheer spite.

If they strike UKIP down it will become more powerful than they can possibly imagine.

Edited by Errol

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The lack of flannel is one of their best points. Take this example of Milibot speaking on BBC News this morning:

BBC reporter: (something to the effect of) "UKIP have won a seat in Clacton, should the major parties be worried now? How much of a concern is this?"

Milibot: "I'd like to congratulate the new Labour MP in Heywood....something about the Tories being crap......."*walks off*

They used to say politics is showbusiness for ugly people. While Milibland has the Ugly bit sown up, he just isn't an actor in the way Bliar and Cameron are. I guess this might not be a problem if he had any substance or a natural personality, but he doesn't. His policies seem to be limited to 'I'll spend more than the tories. Vote for me'

It was quite funny watching the labour MP in Heywood night night give the same answer (its hurting the tories more) to about a dozen of Andrew Neils questions. It reminded me of Robot ed's "these strikes are wrong" moment when his brain got stuck on replay.

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