Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Ill_handle_it

Police Close Case On 8K Fraud On Late Mum's Account.

Recommended Posts

Hi - so my mum died in Oct 2012 and she had been a care home for about the last 10 yrs. When she died I was given a small bundle of docs which included about 3 recent Santander bank statements. I noticed £300 of cash had been withdrawn two days apart on the last statement and similar transactions on the other statements. I advised Santander who said I needed to wait for the grant of representation before they could discuss the account with me but they would look at the potential fraud straight away. I got the grant and Santander advised me that fraud would come back to me. They fobbed me off a couple of times so I took the case to the ombudsman. Long story short,I got 6 years of statements,maybe 7,I can't remember and it appears that 8k was withdrawn as cash. My mum was bedridden and had no concept of money and no need as all her care was paid for by the state.

The police were informed and an investigation was started (or so they say). During this time the ombudsman upheld my complaint that Santander had not started their investigation when they said they would. However, they disagreed with me that the delay had allowed the case to go cold. The ombudsman said I should have told the police straight away and that it didn't matter that Santander had not advised me to do so. Okay so I fooked up there but initially I had no idea that so much money had been stolen.

However, the police have been coming back to me ever since advising they are looking for an ex member of staff who moved away up north. Months passed and they said they couldn't find this person. Today,I received a letter advising they had spoken to the person but due to lack of evidence the case is closed and all other areas have been exhausted.

Where do I stand on this ? The care home went into administration shortly after my mum died but it's still there under the same name but apparently with new owners.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would county court claim against Santander they will most likely settle, prior to court, even if not for the full amount. If there is a suggestion a member of their staff was responsible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would county court claim against Santander they will most likely settle, prior to court, even if not for the full amount. If there is a suggestion a member of their staff was responsible.

Thank you,more accurately the ombudsman said it wasn't for them (the ombudsman) to decide what liability Santander had in relation to the delay in the investigation. The police have done FA as far as I can see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this a Bank staff member or a care home worker?

If its the Bank then they surly are liable for every penny?

If it was care home staff, how did they get the money? What checks at the bank failed? (obviously this assumes it wasn't done using an ATM). If it was done using an ATM why wasn't the footage pulled immediately so there was evidence against the employee?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this a Bank staff member or a care home worker?

If its the Bank then they surly are liable for every penny?

If it was care home staff, how did they get the money? What checks at the bank failed? (obviously this assumes it wasn't done using an ATM). If it was done using an ATM why wasn't the footage pulled immediately so there was evidence against the employee?

It was a care home worker(s) taking cash via the ATM. More than that I don't know. The police said in the letter I received today that the person they spoke to only worked there for a few months (but the fraud went on for years).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was a care home worker(s) taking cash via the ATM. More than that I don't know. The police said in the letter I received today that the person they spoke to only worked there for a few months (but the fraud went on for years).

You need to get all the info they have if you want to take it further.

The bank has some liability surely for any money missing after you reported it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You need to get all the info they have if you want to take it further.

The bank has some liability surely for any money missing after you reported it?

I've written to the police advising that I'm not happy and that them speaking to one person who worked there for a few months isn't exactly an investigation. Santander say it's not their problem as the pin was used.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry for you loss.

CCTV is generally only held for 2 months at banks and ATM machines. I've not been able to gather evidence myself because of this and it's very frustrating.

As for the bank I have to say that it's not that unusual for an elderly person to withdraw cash and use that for living expenses, these types of transactions would not, in my experience, have trigged a suspicion with the bank in the same way that a large cash withdrawal would be viewed. It's very difficult in these circumstances to attach blame to the bank.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry for you loss.

CCTV is generally only held for 2 months at banks and ATM machines. I've not been able to gather evidence myself because of this and it's very frustrating.

As for the bank I have to say that it's not that unusual for an elderly person to withdraw cash and use that for living expenses, these types of transactions would not, in my experience, have trigged a suspicion with the bank in the same way that a large cash withdrawal would be viewed. It's very difficult in these circumstances to attach blame to the bank.

Thanks so do you think I should just let it go ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could try something like contacting the BBC's Watchdog or some other equivalent at your local BBC or ITV station.

This, to me, sounds like a scandal of elderly people in care homes being robbed by care home staff - the maltreatment of people in care homes is very much a news topic at the moment.

The person or person who did this to your Mum may be doing this to others.

Do you know the name of the person you suspect?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could try something like contacting the BBC's Watchdog or some other equivalent at your local BBC or ITV station.

This, to me, sounds like a scandal of elderly people in care homes being robbed by care home staff - the maltreatment of people in care homes is very much a news topic at the moment.

The person or person who did this to your Mum may be doing this to others.

Do you know the name of the person you suspect?

My letter to plod :

I received your letter dated 5 October 2014. Naturally I'm disappointed that you've decided to end the investigation and therefore would like you to explain why ?
You state that you spoke with one member of staff from XXXXXXX's who only worked there for a "short time". The fraud on my mother's account took place over a number of years. Therefore why have you decided to only speak with one person ?
What photographic evidence did you manage to obtain from Santander and over which period of time ?
I'm now looking a court case and therefore need as much information as possible to assist me in the claim.
Kind regards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could try something like contacting the BBC's Watchdog or some other equivalent at your local BBC or ITV station.

This, to me, sounds like a scandal of elderly people in care homes being robbed by care home staff - the maltreatment of people in care homes is very much a news topic at the moment.

The person or person who did this to your Mum may be doing this to others.

Do you know the name of the person you suspect?

I would mention this to Police

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Depends what your goal is...getting the money back, finding the person, preventing future Occurrences...

I would hope they were informed by the care home as soon as the police were involved.

Suspect it will be difficult if the care home went in to administration but try...contact them and ask for advice.

Good luck

P

Thanks - I still think I should do more but I suspect the money won't ever be returned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd go on the assumption it was either legitimate...and spent, or Illegitimate. ...and spent. No idea in criminal proceedings what the likelihood is of getting proper compensation when the employer no longer exists and the employee is likely to be on minimum wage.

Hope you get some resolution though, that stinks :(

P

I'm sure it was stolen as she didn't need money or spend it. I accept that the business went belly up but does that mean I can't go after the previous owner ?

I've emailed the care to find out exactly when they went into admin and who the owners were. I think I should go after them in terms of negligence. The pin number was her DOB and written on the folder it was kept in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, I midunderstood which staff were responsible.

Something ought to be sorted by banks so there is a better way of managing the obvious need that the elderly and immobile have for using third parties to collect cash for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi...really sorry, not sure I have all the answers. The CQC might be more interested in taking this up from a standpoint of "why was a vulnerable person put in a position where abuse may have taken place". They will also in theory be much more interested in where 'person x' is and wether they might still be working in care somewhere...because they have a duty to do these things.

If plod can't see an immediate crime, they wrap up and move on more quickly.

I guess my comment about the firm going in to administration was that a)If they no longer exist, its not possible to claim money from them for failing to adequately protect your mum b)there is no one that the CQC can punish, fine or close down for failing to protect your mum.

But I would definitely contact the CQC in case they are more able to help. They at least have a duty to ensure anyone that was involved (potentially) in abuse no longer works in care.

Like I said, good luck hope you get some closure.

P

Edit: I think we crossed edits. Yes...sounds like they did not do enough to prevent the likelihood of money being taken so were negligent. Wether there is any person or legal entity left to blame is the question.

Also...have you considered they may have been taking withdrawals to cover additional costs of care/trips/social things etc...this would have been very bad practice to do so via cash withdrawal but it's a possibility. Only care records from the now-defunct company would enlighten you here.

P

Thanks - yes makes sense. She had to pay for toiletries and these were accounted for. Some of the statements showed £900 being taken out in few days of each other. She was being creamed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks - yes makes sense. She had to pay for toiletries and these were accounted for. Some of the statements showed £900 being taken out in few days of each other. She was being creamed.

Have the police given you the name of the suspect? Have they indicated WHY they think they are the suspect? (could be other complaints against that person already).

I'd suggest the bank is not at fault here. The ATM withdrawer had the right PIN number, the amounts weren't unusual (i.e. not max per day every day), no complaints over a long period by the account owner, etc.

Your only hope is to gather evidence directly re the perp. Is there money still in the account? If so, watch the balance and as soon as the next withdrawal takes place, get santander to get the ATM camera images immediately.

You might then have to do a private prosecution. If the perp owns nothing, not worth it. If they do, you might be able to take a house off them. HOUSE PRICE CRASH!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   215 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.