crashmonitor Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 A bit unclear as to whether this refers to how long people need to work or whether it refers to state Pension age. One thing for sure, the present situation cannot continue...forty years at work and thirty years in retirement. The retirement which, of course, is funded if you are a boomer or an unfunded Ponzi scheme in the midst of collapse if you are a realist that doesn't believe in alchemy and the magic money tree. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/11144991/Retirement-age-to-rise-by-as-much-as-six-months-per-year.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurzel Of Highbridge Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Several years ago I figures that I would never be able to retire so started working half as hard as I used to Carney wonders why productivity has fallen. If you have no reward for working then you simply are't going to work as hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmonitor Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 Several years ago I figures that I would never be able to retire so started working half as hard as I used to Carney wonders why productivity has fallen. If you have no reward for working then you simply are't going to work as hard. You are not going to spend as hard either. Moving goalposts and uncertain welfare means Asian style saving in middle age. Unfortunately those at the top of the Ponzi, the Joan Bakewell generation, need the workers to spend to generate the tax to pay for their retirement. A bit of a catch 22. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy soy Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Had a boomer colleague gleefully tell me this news this morning. After 2020 the retirement age will be 68, but will rise by 6 months every year for 10 years he reckons . Have not had time to check but would not surprise me. So inbetween the lines, get into BTL if you want to retire or don't worry about the huge mortgage you've got an extra 8 years working life to pay it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 A bit unclear as to whether this refers to how long people need to work or whether it refers to state Pension age. One thing for sure, the present situation cannot continue...forty years at work and thirty years in retirement. The retirement which, of course, is funded if you are a boomer or an unfunded Ponzi scheme in the midst of collapse if you are a realist that doesn't believe in alchemy and the magic money tree. Don't see why it shouldn't work, it "just" needs economics to realign with reality. What's been the point of all the various technological advances over the years if they don't mean that a relatively small percentage-wise working population is sufficient to support everyone? The problem is that we've got a broken system that's incapable of adjusting to that reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemichromis Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 We need to start living shorter lives! I'd rather retire at 60 and die at 80 then retire at 70 and retire at 90. Quality of life for retirees will get worse and worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Sadman Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Funny how that 'immigrants will fund the pensions' doesn't figure. Look at a population pyramid for the 'White:Irish' or 'Black:Carribean' demographic sectors. Two immigrant groups that came to the UK in large numbers for a relatively short period - the 1920s-40s and the 1950s-60s and are now ageing with retirees actually outnumbering working age people within their groups. Immigration in waves is always a short term plaster that ends up costing more in the long term. The last decade of immigration wave (we have to hope its a wave, if it is not, figure a population of about 150-200million mid century) will be the one that finishes off the welfare state, in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StainlessSteelCat Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Hilarious. We've been sold a myth that although people are living a little longer they are able to work much longer. I think I read something like 1/4 of all men are disabled by the time they are 50. We massively overestimate our ability to work and our luck at avoiding serious injury, illness, disability, and even death. Where's all of this productivity going if not to enable more of us to work less? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northerner Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Upon hearing that her elderly grandfather had just passed away, Katie went straight to her grandparent’s house to visit her 95-year-old grandmother and comfort her. When she asked how her grandfather had died, her grandmother replied, “He had a heart attack while we were making love on Sunday morning”. Horrified, Katie told her grandmother that two people nearly 100 years old having sex would surely be asking for trouble. “Oh, no, my dear,” replied granny. “Many years ago, realizing our advanced age, we figured out the best time to do it was when the church bells would start to ring. It was just the right rhythm. Nice and slow and even. Nothing too strenuous, simply in on the Ding and out on the Dong.” She paused to wipe away a tear, and continued, “and if the damned ice cream truck hadn’t come along, he’d still be alive today.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campervanman Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 If £100bn+ per year went into pensions instead of the bank accounts of the 1% then future generations could have similar pensions to previous generations. You are all being conned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campervanman Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) @Riedquat +1 It's obvious that if it takes a small % of the workforce to produce the same as before then the proceeds of technology need to go into providing the stuff that the taxes of more workers used to fund. Too many people on this forum have a 1970's mindset and I'm not talking of boomers. Edited October 7, 2014 by campervanman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Sadman Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 If £100bn+ per year went into pensions instead of the bank accounts of the 1% then future generations could have similar pensions to previous generations. You are all being conned. How do we achieve it though? Hollande doesn't seem to be achieving much. Seems to me socialism cannot work in a globalized economy. Things always tend to the lowest tax economy. Its no shock that while human capital in the EU tends to the northern states, companies base themselves in either Ireland or Luxembourg due to the tax regimes. Free movement of capital, right? But you are pro-EU, pro-globalist. Yet france's only chance of making socialism work is through shutting their economy to outside low tax capitalist influences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahBell Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I think I read something like 1/4 of all men are disabled by the time they are 50. Disabled or put on the sick long term? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeryMeanReversion Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Several years ago I figures that I would never be able to retire so started working half as hard as I used to ... If you have no reward for working then you simply are't going to work as hard. Wise (and funny) words. My plan is dumping lots of salary into pension via salary sacrifice to spread out income over my lifetime and minimise the tax hit. By 55, I plan to work part-time. Marginal tax rates at 65% are a hug disincentive to do anything. Even for basic rate tax payers, their marginal rate can easily be 40+% if you include NI and benefit removal. On a Dave Gorman "Genius" shows a few years ago, one of the audience suggested that retirement is wasted on the elderly, better to have the 25 years off when you are young then work til you die Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmonitor Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 Wise (and funny) words. My plan is dumping lots of salary into pension via salary sacrifice to spread out income over my lifetime and minimise the tax hit. By 55, I plan to work part-time. Marginal tax rates at 65% are a hug disincentive to do anything. Even for basic rate tax payers, their marginal rate can easily be 40+% if you include NI and benefit removal. On a Dave Gorman "Genius" shows a few years ago, one of the audience suggested that retirement is wasted on the elderly, better to have the 25 years off when you are young then work til you die My problem with annuities are exactly that 'retirement is wasted on the elderly'. My mother in law is in a retirement home so basically her annuity is now worthless. As you age you have less and less appetite for spending, an annuity that spreads the income doesn't factor in that the annuity may not have any meaning to someone in their final years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwiches33 Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 If old people keep on working then there are even less jobs for young people? The proper good jobs not barista ones? the on top of that each year more and more jobs are automated, I cant imagine how few decent jobs there will be by the time I am seventy. Unless each 70 year old has two 18 year old slaves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmonitor Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 If old people keep on working then there are even less jobs for young people? The proper good jobs not barista ones? the on top of that each year more and more jobs are automated, I cant imagine how few decent jobs there will be by the time I am seventy. Unless each 70 year old has two 18 year old slaves? Of course the vat, paye and corporation tax generated from the young slave baristas being on their feet 60 hours a week (well not Starbucks on the corporation tax bit obviously) pays for all those 'proper jobs' that those approaching retirement are loathed to give up.....local government officers, civil servants etc. Funny how you don't see many sixty year old baristas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 From Off Topic. If you want to collect a pension, don't bury your parents: (we have a lot of very old state pensioners living abroad dontcha know) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-10809128 I have heard rumours about pension payouts to Pakistan. Not that we have anything to worry about given the Mipuri Pakistani are such honest, upstanding fellows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtomsilver2 Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Disabled or put on the sick long term? A plasterer friend of mine went sick (hernia) at 58 after a lifetime of working and had no savings or home to show for it all (I still don't understand where it all went as he wasn't a big spender). Anyway he was on the social right through to 60 then pension credit took over. For all intents and purposes he retired 7 years before the state retirement age and was even told to consider himself retired from . Wise (and funny) words. My plan is dumping lots of salary into pension via salary sacrifice to spread out income over my lifetime and minimise the tax hit. By 55, I plan to work part-time. Marginal tax rates at 65% are a hug disincentive to do anything. Even for basic rate tax payers, their marginal rate can easily be 40+% if you include NI and benefit removal. that was my plan for two years and then TPTB moved the goal posts again and have pushed the age up where you can access private pensions to 57 and have a link whereby it'll track the state retirement age in future. If they move the goal post by 0.5 years every year for ten years mooted then it'll be age 62 before we can touch this, sorry that is too much for us so we'll be investing in a second property, a holiday home in or around St. Ives which will become our retirement home and our current abode in the midlands to become our letting one. Sorry peeps we are moving over to the dark side (five year plan - not taking on more debt just being happy in our current home and not moving up the ladder. Not ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Theyve completely lost the plot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Goggles Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Hilarious. We've been sold a myth that although people are living a little longer they are able to work much longer. I think I read something like 1/4 of all men are disabled by the time they are 50. We massively overestimate our ability to work and our luck at avoiding serious injury, illness, disability, and even death. Where's all of this productivity going if not to enable more of us to work less? Yep. This is the elephant in the room. The stats just don't work with the raised working age solution. We can't physically all work until we are 80. In fact those who will most need to work - the low paid, lower skilled workers - will be those who are statistically least likely to fit enough to be able to. It could be said that the best thing you can do if you want to have a comfortable retirement is to stay fit and healthy. The ability to work is probably more important than the ability to save for the majority of people now. Housing is a key part of this. If you can have paid down a mortgage, then you are in a much better position to be able to provide for yourself and not require the state to step in to pay your rent. Just another reason that ever-rising prices and BTL are deeply antisocial and detrimental to society in the long as well as the short term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy soy Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Maybe if the entire economy was not warped into favouring housing speculators above all else and preserving the paper value of the £7/8 trillion in housing we're currently sitting at, people could afford to retire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwiches33 Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Of course the vat, paye and corporation tax generated from the young slave baristas being on their feet 60 hours a week (well not Starbucks on the corporation tax bit obviously) pays for all those 'proper jobs' that those approaching retirement are loathed to give up.....local government officers, civil servants etc. Funny how you don't see many sixty year old baristas. I have a family member scored a job in a gov dept, one day he just had enough and walked out, in his words... "the bitch in charge was so utterly incompetent within a week of starting I was sitting showing her how the computer system worked.She was so incompetent she spent her whole time protecting her position and not actually working. We would sit all day pretending to work it just seemed pointless. Rows and rows of people sitting at pcs doing nothing and the only career prospects was waiting on someone to die." One day he just got up and left says if he didn't he would have went insane. This was one of the most important gov depts. I wont say which one Ill get into trouble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmonitor Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) I have a family member scored a job in a gov dept, one day he just had enough and walked out, in his words... "the bitch in charge was so utterly incompetent within a week of starting I was sitting showing her how the computer system worked.She was so incompetent she spent her whole time protecting her position and not actually working. We would sit all day pretending to work it just seemed pointless. Rows and rows of people sitting at pcs doing nothing and the only career prospects was waiting on someone to die." One day he just got up and left says if he didn't he would have went insane. This was one of the most important gov depts. I wont say which one Ill get into trouble We have a weird economy. We are now encouraged to go on the rite of passage thing so we can get one of those plum jobs sitting in front of a computer screen and not doing any work. Meanwhile we have created baristas to pay tax to support those jobs. The public sector jobs are too good to give up, so those that went through the rite of passage thing end up as slave baristas. (and what has UK plc produced.............education, public sector jobs supporting other public sector jobs and cups of coffee made with imported beans) Edited October 7, 2014 by crashmonitor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 You wouldn't think it with all the publicity but over-65's are currently a lower proporition of the population than they were back in the 1980's. Granted, this is set to increase, from about 19% to 23%. Yes 19% to 23%. I don't see why this is disastrous in a wealthy growing economy. An economy in which productivity gains are shared throughout the workforce rather than shunted off to the elites' tax havens ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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