EUBanana Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Na, its Michael Green I was a typical Lib Demmer, until my MP David Laws decided to "elaborate the truth" on his £40k's worth of expenses, and the stitch up over tuition fees....If you or I did that, we'd be looking at a prison sentence.. I was gutted by that, David Laws was one of my fave LibDems before that point. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Orange_Book:_Reclaiming_Liberalism One of the only actual Liberals in the Liberal Democrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpewLabour Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 It was like Christmas day as a kid, I woke up excited and turned the TV on. UKIP have their first elected MP , with a very close second at Heywood and Middleton where Labour hung on by the skin of their teeth. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29549414 Vote UKIP, get UKIP! Yup. It's been a good week all round for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 After looking at the figures, and the massive surge in immigration from 1997 onwards, I'm convinced that there is a link between that sudden massive surge in immigration, and the sudden surge in house prices at the same time. Of course credit played the major part, but you still need credit Ponzi participants; and immigrants, while obviously not buying up £500k properties, are helping BTLs to do so by renting out rooms / bedsits / mini apartments from them. So I believe immigration is a significant contributing factor to why house prices keep increasing. I don't buy into your "immigration hysteria" meme. I don't think immigrants are "evil" or whatever. I'm not hysterical about it either. I'm simply saying that when you stuff ever more people into the same % of land, that's inevitably going to have consequences, one of which is ever increasing house prices. Even if "credit" stablized today, do you really think house prices are going to suddenly stay static given that our population is increasing by over 400,000 year in, year out, and are being forced to live in the same % of land due to an artificial "green" belt imposed in the 1940's, when our population was a lot smaller? So while UKIP are hugely disappointing on the "green belt" issue, they're not much different to the other parties in that regard. But at least UKIP seem to be serious about addressing the immigration issue, and that can only be tackled outside of the EU. The other parties aren't really going to touch the green belt either, and also don't seem to have any real interest in tackling immigration. In fact, they can't, because we're in the EU! Dave even said he was going to get it down to "tens of thousands" (i.e. UKIP policy... lol), and now what are the figures? So while all politicians are very good at talking, UKIP are the only ones who have not yet been given the opportunity of failing to deliver. Yes - just another tall tail explanation wagging the dog. I've spoken to a number of MP's over the last month and they take the same approach as you - 'Oh the housing crisis ? Well its obviously down to [my ultimately irrelevant political hobby horse you dumb-ass voter] don't you agree ? The fun then begins, you know, going through what happened in Ireland and Spain, debt expansion and money supply, speculative tulip fever, public vs private housing stats, comparing with relatively sane Europoean models and so on, till they have that rabbit in the headlights look... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FallingAwake Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Yes - just another tall tail explanation wagging the dog. I've spoken to a number of MP's over the last month and they take the same approach as you - 'Oh the housing crisis ? Well its obviously down to [my ultimately irrelevant political hobby horse you dumb-ass voter] don't you agree ? The fun then begins, you know, going through what happened in Ireland and Spain, debt expansion and money supply, speculative tulip fever, public vs private housing stats, comparing with relatively sane Europoean models and so on, till they have that rabbit in the headlights look... Umm... I think you missed the bit where I said "credit played the major part". I also said, "I believe immigration is a significant contributing factor to why house prices keep increasing." Like sugar is a significant ingredient in a cake, but certainly not the only ingredient, or even the key ingredient. So those MPs are not taking the same approach to me at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frizzers Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 http://lbc.audioagain.com/player_popup.php?item_id=81453&channel_id=0&user_id=0&sec_id=nosubscription&guid=2014-10/10/1db355661008d0e0f59a6488f6283dd9 12 mins 30 secs in - UKIP housing policies addressed. Doing my best to get the story out there ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
begob Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 http://lbc.audioagain.com/player_popup.php?item_id=81453&channel_id=0&user_id=0&sec_id=nosubscription&guid=2014-10/10/1db355661008d0e0f59a6488f6283dd9 12 mins 30 secs in - UKIP housing policies addressed. Doing my best to get the story out there ... Thanks. Worthless politician fails to address facts. Emily Maitlis failing to get UKIPer to explain the nature of the party's support: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04m06br The opponent is Owen Jones, so some won't pay any attention - but he does point up the contradiction in UKIP, and I think that's why Labour will do ok in 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) 12 mins 30 secs in - UKIP housing policies addressed. Doing my best to get the story out there ... Another UKIP candidate (Elizabeth Jones - Dartford candidate) that came over very well and answered questions without flannel. The answers about UKIP candidates' personal opinions and UKIP's proposals for direct democracy were interesting as well. Edited October 11, 2014 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Umm... I think you missed the bit where I said "credit played the major part". I also said, "I believe immigration is a significant contributing factor to why house prices keep increasing." Like sugar is a significant ingredient in a cake, but certainly not the only ingredient, or even the key ingredient. So those MPs are not taking the same approach to me at all. I read your post very, very carefully. And yes you really are just the same as MP's - to be fair right across the spectrum - in attempting to shoe-horn your mostly irrelevant views on the housing crisis. Perhaps you're unaware that a lot of the debate on this site - before it started being defaced by UKIP drivel, was devoted to popping bogus excuses for the crisis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FallingAwake Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I read your post very, very carefully. And yes you really are just the same as MP's - to be fair right across the spectrum - in attempting to shoe-horn your mostly irrelevant views on the housing crisis. Perhaps you're unaware that a lot of the debate on this site - before it started being defaced by UKIP drivel, was devoted to popping bogus excuses for the crisis. You have already made clear that "the housing crisis" is not down to one single issue, i.e. when you said, "The fun then begins, you know, going through what happened in Ireland and Spain, debt expansion and money supply, speculative tulip fever, public vs private housing stats, comparing with relatively sane Europoean models and so on..." ...of which I completely agree. I understand all that. So what exactly are we disagreeing about here? I am not and never have claimed "its obviously down to X" as you implied in post #106. So does it boil down to this: you think immigration is irrelevant in terms of house prices, and I don't? Is that it? If so, there is really no reason to misrepresent what I'm saying. I said it's a significant factor, but not the deciding or major factor. Oh, and thank you for being the Arbiter on what is, and isn't, "mostly irrelevant views on the housing crisis". I will make a note that we should all defer to your Opinion as The Final Word On The Housing Crisis, from now on. Since that's the case, I'd like to see what specific weightings you give to all of the factors involved, i.e. what specific weighting you give to "debt expansion and the money supply", "what happened in Ireland and Spain", the speculative component, public vs private housing stats, and any aspects you consider relevant. On my desk by Monday morning, please. And if you don't know... and I know that you don't know because nobody actually knows the specific weightings... then please come down off that high horse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campervanman Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Surely if high house prices were primarily the result of immigration and supply then countries such as Spain and Ireland would not have had similar hpi to the UK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FallingAwake Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Surely if high house prices were primarily the result of immigration and supply then countries such as Spain and Ireland would not have had similar hpi to the UK? Yes of course, if house prices were primarily the result of immigration. But I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying its a factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timak Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I read your post very, very carefully. And yes you really are just the same as MP's - to be fair right across the spectrum - in attempting to shoe-horn your mostly irrelevant views on the housing crisis. Perhaps you're unaware that a lot of the debate on this site - before it started being defaced by UKIP drivel, was devoted to popping bogus excuses for the crisis. It is funny how a lot of posters that got it about 5 years ago and were spot on with blaming the bankers and loose lending criteria for stoking a massive bubble have fully bought in to the "it was immigrants, the EU and public sector wages" narrative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 It is funny how a lot of posters that got it about 5 years ago and were spot on with blaming the bankers and loose lending criteria for stoking a massive bubble have fully bought in to the "it was immigrants, the EU and public sector wages" narrative. You are correct in that the problem remains one of loose lending and what is even worse, direct government intervention to stimulate the housing market with taxpayer funded schemes like FLS and HTB. The reason that many HPC members will be voting UKIP at the next election is not because of immigration or Europe, but because UKIP are the only party, with a cat in Hell's chance of getting into government, that does not have a track record of encouraging house price inflation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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