Nyt: Behind On Your Car Payments? Your Lender Will Remotely Immobilise The Vehicle

[Baxter Basics MP]

Ford now make more money from there car "loans" business than they do actually selling cars so its not surprising. Using stupid finance packages they allow people to "buy" cars they could never normally afford.

I know someone in this industry who chases payments, I was talking to him and he thinks its great he makes large amounts of money repossessing cars. I asked him regards the morality of what he does and he said "if dumb f**king (racists statement) are stupid enough to buy cars they cant afford then f**k them."

There is an entire fake financial industry now profiting form selling people cars they cannot afford taking as many payments as you can then repoing the car. Predatory lending isnt exclusively for wonga!

The likes of Wonga merely filled a gap the banks could/would not. I think folk realised it was cheaper to go to Wonga and the like rather than getting hit with massive OD charges by the banks. Who hates PayDay loan companies the most? Most likely the banks and credit card companies. Predatory lending was around way before the likes of Wonga, in fact I don't think Wonga in anyway 'forced' customers to take on loans like the way Yes Car Credit and their ilk did. I seem to remember some big names playing tricks on customers such as "if you don't take this loan your credit score will be affected". Yes the 'after-sales' business practices of the likes of Wonga were/are terrible with the spiralling charges. However, Capital One and others were renowned for spiralling charges on their Credit Cards - no one made a peep about that? It was accepted and went on for years. And not to mention the pre-credit crunch days when CC companies would automatically raise your card's limit? Ok for banks and cc companies to be tossers, but not ok for PayDay loan companies to follow the same practice? Is it more a market share issue than a moral issue? I do wonder.

However, getting onto Ford. Years ago I spotted a nice looking mk1 Mondeo at Bristol Street Motors, classy guy I am. It was 3 years old and was around 7k if I remember correctly. Was above average mileage but I haggled and got them down to £6.5k...not much, but was OK back in 1996. All the way through the negotiations they assumed I would be taking on finance. When it came to the nitty gritty I told them "I'm paying in cash"...deal was off. They demanded £7.5k for cash so I walked.

I think the name of the game is to sell a loan, which happens to come with a car.

[onlyme2]

I think the name of the game is to sell a loan, which happens to come with a car.

Take finance and pay off with cash within cooling off period?

[2buyornot2buy]

Buy it through a company scheme and get 0% BIK. That saves a whack in its own right. Whack up a few business miles at full petrol claim rate[1] helps too. And, of course, fuel is what, less than 10% of petrol. The £0 car tax and £0 congestion charge are just gravy if you're doing a few miles.

[1] Not 100% sure on how the tax pans out. Currently HMRC do not have a ev rate and, in theory, mileage rate should reflect actual cost - except that everyone on the planet uses the rates issued by HMRC. Anyway, I've got 100 electric miles to do Monday and will claim at petrol rate. I'd usually get a courier but driving an ev is so much fun I'm having the morning playing postman!

BIK EV goes up to 13% next year.

[Baxter Basics MP]

Take finance and pay off with cash within cooling off period?

Can't remember to be honest, may have been laced with an early repayment charge. Either way, once I mentioned cash the sales guy got very hostile. His attitude probably made me walk rather than the cash/finance thing.

Oddly enough, I did buy a performance car on what I thought was Hire Purchase via Bank of Scotland. I was literally cleared for the car within 2 minutes at an APR of 6%. This was 2006.

I was looking into paying it off during 2009 but the account was transferred to Lloyds Black Horse so had great difficulty getting through to someone at Lloyds who could access the account.

My worry was the early repayment charge on the agreement, but I was confused by the heading of the agreement: "Fixed Sum Loan Agreement". After posting on MSE, I was told the car loan was in fact an unsecured loan? WTF I thought? Eventually, I got through to someone at Black Horse who confirmed the same thing "Yes Mr Basics, the loan is unsecured but cannot be rescheduled". So in effect, I could have driven the motor off the forecourt and then not paid a dime on the loan, BoS would not have been able to repossess the car. This was the type of pre-credit crunch deals they were giving out within minutes and at 6% APR. I'm talking around 30k here.

I asked the guy at Black Horse if I could settle and he said "yes, we can settle without charge because Lloyds want these acquired loans gone so they are waiving the early repayment charge"...happy days! So I settled.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Baxter Basics MP

[2buyornot2buy]

Can't remember to be honest, may have been laced with an early repayment charge. Either way, once I mentioned cash the sales guy got very hostile. His attitude probably made me walk rather than the cash/finance thing.

Oddly enough, I did buy a performance car on what I thought was Hire Purchase via Bank of Scotland. I was literally cleared for the car within 2 minutes at an APR of 6%. This was 2006.

I was looking into paying it off during 2009 but the account was transferred to Lloyds Black Horse so had great difficulty getting through to someone at Lloyds who could access the account.

My worry was the early repayment charge on the agreement, but I was confused by the heading of the agreement: "Fixed Sum Loan Agreement". After posting on MSE, I was told the car loan was in fact an unsecured loan? WTF I thought? Eventually, I got through to someone at Black Horse who confirmed the same thing "Yes Mr Basics, the loan is unsecured but cannot be rescheduled". So in effect, I could have driven the motor off the forecourt and then not paid a dime on the loan, BoS would not have been able to repossess the car. This was the type of pre-credit crunch deals they were giving out within minutes and at 6% APR. I'm talking around 30k here.

I asked the guy at Black Horse if I could settle and he said "yes, we can settle without charge because Lloyds want these acquired loans gone so they are waiving the early repayment charge"...happy days! So I settled.

I thought consumer credit regulations prevents these early repayment penalties?

Every new car I've bought has been based and negotiated on taking out finance. Get the best price and settle within 14 days. Salesmen hate it because they lose the commission, usually more on the finance than the car.

[Baxter Basics MP]

I thought consumer credit regulations prevents these early repayment penalties?

Every new car I've bought has been based and negotiated on taking out finance. Get the best price and settle within 14 days. Salesmen hate it because they lose the commission, usually more on the finance than the car.

You've jogged my memory. Because the loan was above 20k odd, it was an unregulated loan.

[2buyornot2buy]

You've jogged my memory. Because the loan was above 20k odd, it was an unregulated loan.

Must be something else too, wife's car was 27k and I paid it in a week with a £80 interest charge. Or could just be something Audi and Mercedes offers.

[londislagerhound]

Did you factor in the battery lease and the new battery after 8 years?

I'd love to see your sums showing a leaf (essentially it's a renault) only costs you £80 a month.

Actually I think it's pretty much balls.

Nissan Leaf on 4 year, 12,000 miles/year PCP:

Initial payment: £6k

Monthly payment for finance: £80

Monthly payment for battery lease: £93

VED for 4 years: £0

Servicing for 4 years: £240 (first two included)

1xMOT: £50

Estimated repair bills after 3 year warranty expires: £0

Cost of 'fuel' - £0. I charge for free at work, and for free at the Ecotricity points close to my home

Equity in car after 4 years: £2k (Final payment is £6k, car estimated to be worth £8k)

Total running cost over 4 years: £12594

Alternative cost allowing for zero equity in car: £14594

Current vehicle

Depreciation during 4 years/48,000 miles: £3k

VED for 4 years: £580

5 x 10,000 mile services: £700

Estimated repair bills/maintenance costs: £250/year

Fuel cost - 40mpg / £1.30 per litre / 48,000 miles - £7000

4xMOT's: £200

Total cost of running current vehicle over 4 years: £12480

Additional cost of running Leaf compared to current car (assuming zero equity as above): £14594-£12480=£2114

Additional monthly cost of running Nissan Leaf: £44.04

Now my existing car might not depreciate quite that much, and it might not need £250/year in repairs. Equally, there might be a bit of equity in the Leaf, or it might need a repair in the fourth year. I also could end up paying perhaps £1000 for electricity if my circumstance change.

However, I believe the figures stack up, mainly due to the £7k saving in fuel.

[Baxter Basics MP]

Must be something else too, wife's car was 27k and I paid it in a week with a £80 interest charge. Or could just be something Audi and Mercedes offers.

Yes, the loan I referred to was unsecured - Fixed Sum Loan.

I think they're as rare as hen's teeth these days.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Baxter Basics MP

[2buyornot2buy]

Yes, the loan I referred to was unsecured - Fixed Sum Loan.

I think they're as rare as hen's teeth these days.

Think the 25k limit might have been lifted in 2006. It's all regulated now. Shows you though, they are out to get you every which way. Edited September 26, 2014 by 2buyornot2buy

[Baxter Basics MP]

Think the 25k limit might have been lifted in 2006. It's all regulated now. Shows you though, they are out to get you every which way.

I purchased June 2006, what stood out on the agreement was 'Fixed Sum Loan Agreement' and some blurb about being unregulated. But I thought for a few years I was on Hire Purchase, didn't realise they made unsecured loans on 'nearly new' cars. Car was about 6 months old. Sales guy told me "you must have real good credit because they accepted you in minutes". Loan company was Capital Bank, part of Bank of Scotland and then swallowed up by Black Horse.

[frozen_out]

(vaguely) On the same theme has anyone noticed the number of radio adverts for cars that go along the lines of...Roll up Roll Up, get your cheap monthly payments car here...you'rs for own £119 pcm.

Swiftly followed by, final payment of £5400, this is a lease deal, you will not own the car.

So the price is actually £119+£150 pcm not to own something.

What happens when you can't find the final payment money ?

The car industry must be in real trouble to be doing this sort of thing.

I was sat behind a bus yesterday with an ad on the back making a big deal of how you could have a Z4 for 199/month. In the small print it said the deposit was 5995!

Personally I'd want to own a car outright for that money.

[Mugwump]

Never mind cars, most peoples brains are subject to an immobilisor. Its called television. You sit in front of it and it subjects you to an endless stream of veiled suggestions that you conform to the norm. Later, these suggestions get repeated through speech, at work, or elswhere, where they are accepted as reality. When the TV goes on, the brain goes off. And while the brain is off, it is subtly re programmed to think in certain terms. Thats why we all think the way we do, and hold the opinions we hold. It has backup too, in the form of the press, whose freedom is held so dear. You might think you have independent thoughts, but you dont. They are all conditioned. I dont need to give examples. If you dont understand what I am getting at, its already too late. Welcome to the matrix. Back to cars.

[Baxter Basics MP]

Never mind cars, most peoples brains are subject to an immobilisor. Its called television. You sit in front of it and it subjects you to an endless stream of veiled suggestions that you conform to the norm. Later, these suggestions get repeated through speech, at work, or elswhere, where they are accepted as reality. When the TV goes on, the brain goes off. And while the brain is off, it is subtly re programmed to think in certain terms. Thats why we all think the way we do, and hold the opinions we hold. It has backup too, in the form of the press, whose freedom is held so dear. You might think you have independent thoughts, but you dont. They are all conditioned. I dont need to give examples. If you dont understand what I am getting at, its already too late. Welcome to the matrix. Back to cars.

Have you recently found a cardboard box full of sunglasses?

[Mugwump]

Have you recently found a cardboard box full of sunglasses?

Is your TV on?

[chronyx]

Knock knock, Neo

[agill007]

Have you recently found a cardboard box full of sunglasses?

LOL. yep that was a highly under rated film. Apparently it got pulled from the cinemas 'cos the powers that be didn't want people learning the truth! ;-)

[oracle]

From New York Times - link

Well here's a rather strange turn of events. Subprime borrowers taking out car loans must have an immobiliser fitted to the car. If they fall behind on their payments, the lender remotely disables the car. Apparently 2 million vehicles are kitted out in this way.

Makes you wonder what they'll try next?

i think thats probably a bit harsh targetting subprime drives in this way, but the concept of a bloke that nicked your car steaming down the M6 coming to a shuddering halt when you call the old bill and they "jam" the vehicle to a shuddering halt does seem quite intriguing.

could either be done by the owner..ie phone up insurance company/police. answer a few basic security question, then please enter the PIN number of your insurance provided scratch "n" sniff emergency SIM card.

..or police can do by police officer ID code, authorised by superior officer ID code.that way it's traceable as to who did the stop and on what grounds.

i would think this would probably be a less dangerous stop method than laying out stingers and having the car skid all over the place,potentially into passers by.

if done properly i think people would warm to it a a handy security feature.

howver government always f3ck it up, so I'm not holding my breath.

Edited September 29, 2014 by oracle

[MarkG]

..or police can do by police officer ID code, authorised by superior officer ID code.that way it's traceable as to who did the stop and on what grounds.

Yes, I totally want the government able to remotely disable my car at any time.

I'd rather live with the tiny risk of it being stolen, thanks.