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jonsfedup

Str Btl All The Same Made Money Off The Backs Of Others...

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I’ve been reading here for nearly two years. I’ve learnt a lot and have enjoyed reading the many debates here.

I’m currently renting and have never been a homeowner. I’ve always worked and put myself through university. I’ve had to work and earn my own money and nobody has ever given me anything. I would like to have been able to become a homeowner but unfortunately I’ve wasn’t in a position until recently. This is something that isn’t my fault.

I would like to know is there a site dedicated to first time buyers those who have never had the opportunity to get onto the housing ladder. I feel this site seems to be populated with a lot of STR’s. I don’t really have anything in common with a STR as they have already sold to cash in on the market. I have to say that its not a million miles away from a BTL’s. Both have made money on the back of this boom or shall I describe more accurately giant pyramid scheme. Remember you may have sold and made money but if you have sold to a first time buyer they will undoubtedly suffer because of this.

;)

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I’ve been reading here for nearly two years. I’ve learnt a lot and have enjoyed reading the many debates here.

I’m currently renting and have never been a homeowner. I’ve always worked and put myself through university. I’ve had to work and earn my own money and nobody has ever given me anything. I would like to have been able to become a homeowner but unfortunately I’ve wasn’t in a position until recently. This is something that isn’t my fault.

I would like to know is there a site dedicated to first time buyers those who have never had the opportunity to get onto the housing ladder. I feel this site seems to be populated with a lot of STR’s. I don’t really have anything in common with a STR as they have already sold to cash in on the market. I have to say that its not a million miles away from a BTL’s. Both have made money on the back of this boom or shall I describe more accurately giant pyramid scheme. Remember you may have sold and made money but if you have sold to a first time buyer they will undoubtedly suffer because of this.

;)

Jon,

A lot of us here are in exactly the same position. Everybody in this world has to do the best they can for themselves in whatever they term their priorities. I would love to be an STR. But I am not. It IS a giant pyramid scheme that I didn't have access to at the right time. I am in pretty much the same position as yourself.

There is something here also about expecting everyone to be jesus like in their generosity. We don't live in a world where I decide to sell fairly so the next person doesn't take advantage of that. Sell to an FTB at a discount on the current price and bet your bottom dollar that in 2 months they will be living in a house with 2 more bedrooms than you sold them while you are living in a house with 2 less than you started with. The world is a pretty hard old place.

This doesn't mean that people on this site don't have an awful lot to give, (even if they are against my circumstances comparatively rich!!!). This site has kept me out of the property market and my temperature down. Its up to you, but my own attitude is take people as they come. Its a lot easier than being angry all the time (TRUST. :lol: )

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i'm sick of the the anti STR sentiment on this board lately.

i think you'll find that most of the STR's on this site did it accidentally (broken chains etc) or with a job move. very few for pure speculation.

if you have to sell with a job move for example. it would be fckin stupid to buy back into this market.

to even find yourself on a board like this means you have some common sense and financial nouse. there's ya common ground.

and don't forget. STR's are fuelling the crash. they ain't buying.

Edited by dunroamin

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I’ve been reading here for nearly two years. I’ve learnt a lot and have enjoyed reading the many debates here.

I’m currently renting and have never been a homeowner. I’ve always worked and put myself through university. I’ve had to work and earn my own money and nobody has ever given me anything. I would like to have been able to become a homeowner but unfortunately I’ve wasn’t in a position until recently. This is something that isn’t my fault.

I would like to know is there a site dedicated to first time buyers those who have never had the opportunity to get onto the housing ladder. I feel this site seems to be populated with a lot of STR’s. I don’t really have anything in common with a STR as they have already sold to cash in on the market. I have to say that its not a million miles away from a BTL’s. Both have made money on the back of this boom or shall I describe more accurately giant pyramid scheme. Remember you may have sold and made money but if you have sold to a first time buyer they will undoubtedly suffer because of this.

;)

Yes, you could argue that both are speculators...the key difference being that the BTLs helped to fuel this bubble, the STRs are helping to deflate it.

But let me ask you this: if I STR and my house is bought by a BTL, do you have the same sympathy for them that you'd have for a FTB?

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Hi Jon, welcome to HPC.

I'm pretty much in the same position as you, and all I want is to be able to buy my own house without being a total slave to the banks.

However, I'm not against BTL landlords or STRers. This is a capitalist country, as there will always be winners and losers. FTBers have to make their own decisions, like everyone else, and I made my decision not to buy in the current market.

I did my research to why house prices were so high, which lead me to this website, and was laughed at in early 2004 when I said house prices can't continue to go up at the current rate and may possibly fall. Well, there not laughing now (just denying the 'fall' part) - which is a major change in attitudes.

I have discussed, and continue to a certain extent on other websites, but it amazes me how people don't understand simple economics, where I'm usually met with 'houses always go up' remarks; hence I only really discuss economics on this website

If you want all the info on the housing market, I would suggest to stay here. If you want someone to blame, you should be blaming the media, Gordon Brown, the Banks and Kirsty Allsop. But the STRers are on the same side as the FTBs.

Things will return to an equilibrium again, it just takes time. The only thing is how long will it take?

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welcome jon.

elizabeth is right,there are a lot of wannabee FTB's on here.

you just have to be patient.

this game is full of vested interests wanting to make a quick buck.

I'm no different,I want to buy when prices are at a reasonable level but I know there are people tryuing to persuade me not to wait(for their own personal gain).I own a place already but it is not MY home.I've been fortunate enough to have a house gifted.....basically done to avoid IHT.For now I don't really need to buy so I'm just letting the job pay for my digs.

I'm not buying into the VI tripe as I know all they are doing now is resorting to blackmail tactics.I'm made of stronger stuff than the sheep who cave in and buy now.

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I’ve been reading here for nearly two years. I’ve learnt a lot and have enjoyed reading the many debates here.

I’m currently renting and have never been a homeowner. I’ve always worked and put myself through university. I’ve had to work and earn my own money and nobody has ever given me anything. I would like to have been able to become a homeowner but unfortunately I’ve wasn’t in a position until recently. This is something that isn’t my fault.

I would like to know is there a site dedicated to first time buyers those who have never had the opportunity to get onto the housing ladder. I feel this site seems to be populated with a lot of STR’s. I don’t really have anything in common with a STR as they have already sold to cash in on the market. I have to say that its not a million miles away from a BTL’s. Both have made money on the back of this boom or shall I describe more accurately giant pyramid scheme. Remember you may have sold and made money but if you have sold to a first time buyer they will undoubtedly suffer because of this.

;)

STRs are not the "enemy" by any stretch of a fevered imagination. Had I had the same opportunity, I would have done the same thing, and I am pointing out the advantages to my friends who might be in a position to do so.

The market is efficient in the sense that it will ultimately and ruthlessly correct any unjustified bullishness. As much as I've had enough of renting (ten years and counting) I am acutely aware that patience is vital. As I am belatedly taking a long-term view on things I can busy myself with preparing my finances so that when I do strike, I will be able to maximise my purchasing power.

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I’ve been reading here for nearly two years. I’ve learnt a lot and have enjoyed reading the many debates here........................

I would like to have been able to become a homeowner but unfortunately I’ve wasn’t in a position until recently. This is something that isn’t my fault.

I would like to know is there a site dedicated to first time buyers those who have never had the opportunity to get onto the housing ladder. I feel this site seems to be populated with a lot of STR’s. I don’t really have anything in common with a STR as they have already sold to cash in on the market. I have to say that its not a million miles away from a BTL’s. Both have made money on the back of this boom or shall I describe more accurately giant pyramid scheme. Remember you may have sold and made money but if you have sold to a first time buyer they will undoubtedly suffer because of this.

;)

We bought our first house when I was 21 no bugger give it to us, my car went the scrap yard because we could not afford to get it fixed AND have a mortgage. We did without most things, holidays, TV, fridge, and the like, and when we got them they were secondhand. Like the kitchen table and chairs, wardrobe. Indeed the second hand washing machine sounded like a Panzer Tank coming up the back street. And it leaked about a table spoon of oil onto the kitchen tiles. Phone, central heating, spin dryer your jokeing, they were avaliable but we could not afford them. Actually only new thinkings we had were a coffee table, a bed and three peice suite [on tick] The cooker was our wedding present from my dad.

AND the working week was a five and a half days 48 hrs a week, but I worked six and a half days, plus I did work on the side in the evenings. Some of you moaners don't know what work is, I left school at 15, and was supporting a wife and two kids at 23 years old. proburbly on less than you spend on Playstaion games and binger drinking.

I'm now 58, we sold this year after owning it since 1998, so like you we also are NOT responsible for this last housing boom. In fact we lost 10K on the house previous after owning it for 8 years. But I've since learnt about housing cycles and market timing, and I don't inteed to make the same mistake twice.

And NO we did not sell to FTB'ers, they had their own business, and I told them I was selling 12% below the unrealistic asking prices in our area, because I thought houses were going down. They were the first and only viewers because they offered asking on the day they viewed. And we are at that age when down sizing is the next step, but because this market is due a correction we are STR'ed.

And sometimes I wonder why I visit this website, when KNOBHEADS LIKE YOU come on and whinge about how it aint your fault it those big bad greedy STR'ers.

If you have indeed been reading this forum for two years, let me tell you this, you have obviously been wasting your time. Otherwise you would realise house prices are all to do with economic cycles. And this housing bubble has been caused by lacked lending by the banks at historicaly low interest rate, here and abroad led by the Fed. To support a stock market that was in trouble after the tech bubble collapsed, they needed the consumers to spend them out of a possible stockmarket collapse. And this credit binge has been encouraged by the great socialist government of our time.

Hope that helps

;)

Edited by Catch22

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I just think the real losers are the people and I don’t just mean young people but those for whatever reason can no longer afford to buy a home. I’m just appalled at how far and wide this scam the so-called housing market has gone.

In the past the first thing people saved for was a deposit for a house. Now what? There’s no incentive or even a reason for young people to save. What will be the future? The longer this situation continues the worse this country will become. 24 hour drinking yes that’s right let em drink longer that will solve the problem. Lets drink ourselves into oblivion.

What is the point in enslaving yourself just to fund somebody else’s pension. I recommend having a look at nethouse prices or similar that will get just show anyone just how sick this whole sorry mess is.

We just live in a culture of disgusting greed without the care for anyone else or the consequences that it creates. I know the world we live in but it doesn’t make it right.

Edited by jonsfedup

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I just think the real losers are the people and I don’t just mean young people but those for whatever reason can no longer afford to buy a home. I’m just appalled at how far and wide this scam the so-called housing market has gone.

In the past the first thing people saved for was a deposit for a house. Now what? There’s no incentive or even a reason for young people to save. What will be the future? The longer this situation continues the worse this country will become. 24 hour drinking yes that’s right let em drink longer that will solve the problem. Lets drink ourselves into oblivion.

What is the point in enslaving yourself just to fund somebody else’s pension. I recommend having a look at nethouse prices or similar that will get just show anyone just how sick this whole sorry mess is.

We just live in a culture of disgusting greed without the care for anyone else or the consequences that it creates. I know the world we live in but it doesn’t make it right.

I totally agree with everything you say in this post, and if you had posted this first I would not have called you a NH. ;)

What with interest rates being so low as they are, plus a generation brought up with a "must have it now attitude" [with all the trimmings] and not bothered about, nay encouraged to take on debt. Has helped to drive this market to dizzy heights, plus the BTL get rich quick merchants [not the pros] Bit like when video shops first hit the streets, money for old rope £15 joining fee £5 a film easy money. So what happened every begger opened one, video shop oversupply market collapes [at premium price] Same will happen when the amature BTL'ers start off loading as prices drop IMHO

Reason I'm here is to warn youngsters with no "cusion" in housing equity to keep out of this market at any costs. But sadly it will be frustrated FTB'ers who will prop this market up when their bare minimum price entry point is reached. Hence we will experiance these false hopes of a revival in the market, when they pile in [ all the way to the bottom]

corrections can take anything between 2 to 6 years to pan out maybe this time even longer. By that I mean the economic winter may last longer than most people would expect. What with wealth creation moving to the other side of the globe. Low service sector pay cannot support ever increasing house prices of bubble magnitude forever, and once everyone realises this the market will sell off.

I think Ozzio sumed it up nicely when LL said she thought the market had bottomed. He came back with.......how can a market have bottomed at its peak ........or words to that effect......

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hi jon. same thing happened to me. got back here to uk in 1999. saved up, got steady income and whallop. prices inflated at a higher cash rate than i could earn.!!! stunning.

STRs. the site has a lot of em'. i think it was founded by them. they have a better equilibrium that an FTB as they have cash in the bank and can relax waiting for the crash. an FTB is more angry about it. this is why i cant raise a demo here. the average STR is in no big hurry for a crash and can also wait longer to hit the real bottom.

the STR is a sort of speculator thats cashed in on a bad government housing policy. not worth shooting as much as a BTL, but at the same time it would be hard to generate any sympathy towards them either.

my own guess is this forum is 70% STR, 27% FTB, 2% BTL and 1% flipper.

a STR could have taken their inflation up the housing chain with them and been fine just topping up another mortgage. they are gambling. they are the sword ememy of the BTL brigade as most STRs are missed boat BTLs and they will love to flip the BTL boys advantage around.

to me thay are simply allies akin to the ARVN in 67.

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Remember you may have sold and made money but if you have sold to a first time buyer they will undoubtedly suffer because of this.

;)

Jonsfedup,

If it's any consolation, when I sold my 1-bed flat in Spring 04 the only real buyers around, even then, were BTL-ers. One FTB came to have a look but was obviously not interested. I sold to a particularly stupid BTL "investor". First he tried to exchange contracts with no deposit. :blink: Then he signed without reading any of the papers :ph34r: luckily for me though :) It was never going to be the easiest flat to sell, even though I went for the lowest valuation suggested by the EAs. Finally he asked if the kitchen cabinets were going with us (they were built-in, so no, they were staying) and whether the telly was staying (not built in, so no, we're taking the telly) :lol: I was feeling generous by this point because he'd been good enough to sign without reading the papers properly so I helped him make a list of basic furniture his future tenants might appreciate.

He's probaby quite pleased about his "investment". It rented out immediately and he didn't have to do much work to it. I worked out that the rent probably just about covers an IO mortgage and the service charges.

Like a lot of STR's on this site, staying in the property was not an option. Mr Geranium had moved in and it was too small for us. Also the neighbours were a nightmare. We became accidental STRs. It was not a calculated move.

We would have bought another flat if there had been more stock to choose from and if the difference between a 1-bed and a decent-sized 2-bed had been less than £200k at the time. Once we'd moved into rented, we noticed the market getting weaker so thought we might as well take our time looking around.

I don't consider myself to have "made" money on the flat that I bought and sold. I would have been MUCH better off if there had been little or no HPI with plenty of stock around to choose from back in 2004. I think we've both been screwed by the dash for property as a "hot investment".

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STRs. the site has a lot of em'. i think it was founded by them.

Webmaster is an FTB, as far as I'm aware. Although Gavin and Bubble Pricker are STRs and there are certainly lots of them here.

I think that most STRs did do so by accident because personal circumstances meant they were moving anyway, although there are those who did it for purely for speculative gain.

As for the latter - if I really loved the home I lived in, and spent lots of time and money on making it my own - personally I don't think I could just sell it on a whim to speculate on a market crash. Seems like a lot of hassle.

I think that many STRs are waiting longer than they anticipated when they sold.

Remember always though that FTBs have the most right to be angry and are the most deserving of a house price crash. Yes, we HAVE THE RIGHT to be angry, and after all the hard work I put in to saving what I've got, I feel I deserve the pay off.

I've effectively been saving up to buy for over 5 years now. I had plans and other peoples' greed and stupidity has left them in tatters. Unlike an STR I've never been a homeowner. I've not had the luxury of watching my home triple in value since 1996.

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Must admit that when you see the threads "So how much have you got squirreled away" and people respond with £100,000, £250,000 etc

Someone on £35,000 spending zero would still take about 10 years of work to save that. That is the massive wealth transfer from the young to those in some cases just 5 years older.

Then again I learned long ago that wealth isn't everything although most of the things I enjoy do involve money like travel :)

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I’ve been reading here for nearly two years. I’ve learnt a lot and have enjoyed reading the many debates here.

I’m currently renting and have never been a homeowner. I’ve always worked and put myself through university. I’ve had to work and earn my own money and nobody has ever given me anything. I would like to have been able to become a homeowner but unfortunately I’ve wasn’t in a position until recently. This is something that isn’t my fault.

I would like to know is there a site dedicated to first time buyers those who have never had the opportunity to get onto the housing ladder. I feel this site seems to be populated with a lot of STR’s. I don’t really have anything in common with a STR as they have already sold to cash in on the market. I have to say that its not a million miles away from a BTL’s. Both have made money on the back of this boom or shall I describe more accurately giant pyramid scheme. Remember you may have sold and made money but if you have sold to a first time buyer they will undoubtedly suffer because of this.

;)

Jonsfedup,

I am an STR, I didn't STR my studio flat to make a profit, I did it because it was the only way I could move in with Mr Goat (2 people in a studio flat, I doubt we would still be together!).

You seem to assume we are all capitalist monsters, yet most of us have STR'd because we cannot move up the ladder when we need to or have moved to a more expensive part of the country, which effectively puts us in the same position as FTB's. There are some who have STR'd for profit, but so what, do you honestly think this is such a bad thing? I don't, in fact I think it helps the crash.

I think the way some media types are give airtime, to push the market is disgraceful and I think banks lend irresponsibly, but that's life. If watching Locationx3 is all the research someone does when spending £100,000+ then they are just as much to blame for HP rises.

LG

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I'm an STR, sold to a delightful FTB couple who were thrilled to buy our flat.

They were neither naive or ignorant. They bought a beautiful property in one of the best locations in London (IMO).

I think the flat may now be worth a few thousand pounds more.

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Guest STR2004

As my name implies I am an STR and as others have suggested wasn't through choice. Faced with jumping back onto the ladder with a large mortgage for a small flat I decided to wait and rent.

I can appreciate how a FTB must feel but to group STRs and BTLs into the same group is stupid. Unlike a BTL I only want a home to live in that's not going to be a financial burden till the day I'm 6 feet under. By renting I'm not fuelling the mad house price pyramid scheme and thereby making property even less affordable for FTBs. As I see it FTBs and STRs are on the same side both effectively priced out of the market and both wanting a price correction.

I don't despise the FTBs (all 9% of them) that are still buying at the lower end. I just wonder how on earth they can afford it.

STR

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Jon - the housing boom is bigger than you, bigger than me - there is only one way for you to be able to afford a home - take some action and UNIONISE. Find the trade union for your activity and join it and campaign on the issue.

All these bears are wrong - and make me feel a bit nausous at there folly thinking that some sort of 'economic cycle' will help them out.

The boom can go on as long as the bank prints money at double digit rates and millions of immigrants expand the labour pool.

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I'm a STR but not to make a huge profit out of an alleged 'crash'. For the next 3 years, with a brand new heavily financied business, I have no idea where I am 'going' - thus there is zero point in me going out and buying another property when I may well want to/need to move within the next 2-3 years. Having been stuck with the last house on the market for 2 years I am terrified of getting 'stuck' again. Also, because my business has only 2 years accounts behind it I cannot borrow the amount I wish to at the moment to buy the property I desire. I am therefore renting, which I must say is very enjoyable having been a mortgage 'slave' for the past 7 years :) It is also a lot cheaper on a month by month basis, so it's a win win situation for me right now.

We are not all capitalist pigs trying to make money out of others misfortune you know.

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  • 302 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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