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zugzwang

Buy A House? Life's Too Short.

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One income isn't enough. One working lifetime isn't enough.

Thanks, douchebag.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/borrowing/mortgages/11109153/The-average-working-life-isnt-long-enough-to-pay-for-a-house.html

Have we reached the point where the average working life isn’t long enough – or remunerative enough – for us to buy a home?

That’s the picture emerging from another week in which there was another raft of data about incomes, savings, mortgages – and house prices.

At one end of the lifespan are older home owners stuck with mortgages, inadequate pensions and looming care bills. They’re not going to be able to pay off their mortgages and they’ll have to sell up, downsize, take out lifetime loans in the form of equity release – or, like their much younger counterparts, rent.

At the younger end the problem is the reverse: people can’t afford to get hold of a mortgage in the first place. Trapped between sky-high rents which prevent the saving of a deposit and prohibitive property prices, they buy later in life and have to borrow more in the process.

Again the evidence of the trend is plentiful.

NFU Mutual, the insurer, said this week that more than a million over-55s should consider using the new pension freedoms being introduced in April 2015 to pay down their mortgage debt. It reckoned there were 1.3 million over-55s with mortgages and suggested that robbing pension pots to pay them off (and suffering lower retirement income as a result) was the lesser of two evils.

Official figures suggest there are about 400,000 over-65s still with mortgages, a figure that is growing by about 10pc per year. And as Telegraph Money reported recently, European figures show that one in five of British 65 to 69-year-olds is still working, a far higher proportion than in Germany, France, Ireland, Italy or Spain. Why? To pay off their mortgage, of course, or scrape a bit more towards a pension, or both.

Figures from the Office for National Statistics, published on Tuesday, put the price of a first-time home at £209,000 for July 2014, which is 13.5pc higher than July 2013. That rate of increase – the highest recorded since 2005 – is roughly 10 times the rate of wage growth. Shelter, the housing charity, called it “shocking” and coined the phrase “clipped-wing generation” to describe those younger earners forced either to rent perpetually or live on in the childhood bedrooms of their parents’ homes.

Also this week, the National Housing Federation produced research showing that two in three first-time buyers now got help from their parents, up from one in three five years ago. Of today’s children, it predicted that only those from the “wealthiest families will be able to buy a home”.

It also poured cold water on any claims by today’s older generation that buying a house was as difficult when they were young. The ratio between property prices and wages has shifted so enormously that house buying today is as difficult for buyers with two wages as it was 35 years ago for a single borrower on just their own income. Today’s first-time buyer – putting down an average £30,000 – would need to borrow 3.4 times a single wage, compared with a borrower 35 years ago needing 1.4 times his wage, to purchase the equivalent property.

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yeah, OR an iphone6. One income isn't enough to sustain the ipad/iphone AND a home!

queues of 1000 long outside Covent garden

regentapple2_3044551c.jpg

First buyer. Look at attire of the staff, they bought iphone6 rather than homes :rolleyes:

Edited by 200p

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yeah, OR an iphone6. One income isn't enough to sustain the ipad/iphone AND a home!

queues of 1000 long outside Covent garden

regentapple2_3044551c.jpg

First buyer. Look at attire of the staff, they bought iphone6 rather than homes :rolleyes:

Anyone wearing tracksuit parts in public unless going to or from a gym is, in my experience, an idiot slacker.

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Great trolling, 200p. Not sure if you're serious. An iPhone costs £540. You would have to buy 55 iPhones to spend your 30k house deposit. That is a lot of iPhones. Unless you're buying a new iPhone every month it's not going to make any difference.

And you're telling me that the home buyers of the past were virtuously frugal, wearing their hair shirts and living on lentils (for eighteen years - the average FTB is now aged 36) for the chance to be judged financially pure? None of them ever treated themselves to computer equipment, or scooters, or motorbikes, or a nice telly, or a sound system? And the CPI fiddling tells us that these consumer luxuries of the past were relatively much more expensive than they are today.

Anyway in the current environment it's perfectly rational to conclude, after years of careful money management, that the crazy prices are not going away and that no matter how much you make yourself suffer you cannot keep up with the madness. Many people are concluding that they may as well enjoy life a little now, otherwise they'll still be still wearing that hair shirt at 50, and have no iPhone but no house, either.

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Great trolling, 200p. Not sure if you're serious. An iPhone costs £540. You would have to buy 55 iPhones to spend your 30k house deposit. That is a lot of iPhones. Unless you're buying a new iPhone every month it's not going to make any difference.

And you're telling me that the home buyers of the past were virtuously frugal, wearing their hair shirts and living on lentils (for eighteen years - the average FTB is now aged 36) for the chance to be judged financially pure? None of them ever treated themselves to computer equipment, or scooters, or motorbikes, or a nice telly, or a sound system? And the CPI fiddling tells us that these consumer luxuries of the past were relatively much more expensive than they are today.

Anyway in the current environment it's perfectly rational to conclude, after years of careful money management, that the crazy prices are not going away and that no matter how much you make yourself suffer you cannot keep up with the madness. Many people are concluding that they may as well enjoy life a little now, otherwise they'll still be still wearing that hair shirt at 50, and have no iPhone but no house, either.

Like :thumbsup:

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I dont see enough people who are unhappy enough with the powers that be, to withdraw from the system.

Did people know that Peter Schiff who champions change has ended his radio show in August.. He said people arent ready for change this time.

The banking system and the monetary system, this housing market, we as a collective by our actions, are voting NO to change.

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I dont see enough people who are unhappy enough with the powers that be, to withdraw from the system.

Did people know that Peter Schiff who champions change has ended his radio show in August.. He said people arent ready for change this time.

The banking system and the monetary system, this housing market, we as a collective by our actions, are voting NO to change.

Do you ever read what you write?

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Everything said is true.....this has been brewing up for years, not enough inflation busting well paying mortgage jobs to repay the debt promises and sufficient income to live out a young and old age.......head in the sand, banking on a bailout, all in this together.

Edited by winkie

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iphone £500?

nonsense, people will get them on contract and willingly pay £1000.

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I dont see enough people who are unhappy enough with the powers that be, to withdraw from the system.

Did people know that Peter Schiff who champions change has ended his radio show in August.. He said people arent ready for change this time.

The banking system and the monetary system, this housing market, we as a collective by our actions, are voting NO to change.

This is what frustrates me more than anything.

We have the power, but seemingly not the will.

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Anyone wearing tracksuit parts in public unless going to or from a gym is, in my experience, an idiot slacker.

Give him some credit, he was queuing all night so was dressing for comfort.

;)

Edit: To add smiley as people's sarcasm detectors don't seem to be working on this thread. :D

Edited by Eddie_George

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This is what frustrates me more than anything.

We have the power, but seemingly not the will.

All 'we' do is moan about it on HPC, then moan about people not even moaning about things.

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Great trolling, 200p. Not sure if you're serious. An iPhone costs £540. You would have to buy 55 iPhones to spend your 30k house deposit. That is a lot of iPhones. Unless you're buying a new iPhone every month it's not going to make any difference.

And you're telling me that the home buyers of the past were virtuously frugal, wearing their hair shirts and living on lentils (for eighteen years - the average FTB is now aged 36) for the chance to be judged financially pure? None of them ever treated themselves to computer equipment, or scooters, or motorbikes, or a nice telly, or a sound system? And the CPI fiddling tells us that these consumer luxuries of the past were relatively much more expensive than they are today.

Anyway in the current environment it's perfectly rational to conclude, after years of careful money management, that the crazy prices are not going away and that no matter how much you make yourself suffer you cannot keep up with the madness. Many people are concluding that they may as well enjoy life a little now, otherwise they'll still be still wearing that hair shirt at 50, and have no iPhone but no house, either.

So you have correctly identified that an iPhone gadget is about a sixtieth of what you need for a deposit, suggesting that buying one would not be mutually exclusive with building up a deposit. I disagree.

I am not making some Daily Telegraph reader comment about "kids today with their ipods and holidays, we never had that..." etc, but if you were saving up for a deposit, you would probably not go an get a new iPhone 6 for £540 when you get a reasonable phone free with line rental less than £20 p/m. The type of person who has to buy the latest phone is probably unable to resist other luxuries for a few years, such as Sky TV.

£30,000 is not such an astronomical sum that you could not save it in 5 years or so. And you cannot look at every purchase an say, "it's only £500 - what difference does it make?", otherwise you would never get there.

Edited by Ah-so

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So you have correctly identified that an iPhone gadget is about a sixtieth of what you need for a deposit, suggesting that buying one would not be mutually exclusive with building up a deposit. I disagree. I am not making some Daily Telegraph reader comment about "kids today with their ipods and holidays, we never had that..." etc, but if you were saving up for a deposit, you would probably not go an get a new iPhone 6 for £540 when you get a reasonable phone free with line rental less than £20 p/m. The type of person who has to buy the latest phone is probably unable to resist other luxuries for a few years, such as Sky TV.

£30,000 is not such an astronomical sum that you could not save it in 5 years or so. And you cannot look at every purchase an say, "it's only £500 - what difference does it make?", otherwise you would never get there.

I very much suspect to run an iPhone 6 for two years, would cost at least £1000..

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So you have correctly identified that an iPhone gadget is about a sixtieth of what you need for a deposit, suggesting that buying one would not be mutually exclusive with building up a deposit. I disagree. I am not making some Daily Telegraph reader comment about "kids today with their ipods and holidays, we never had that..." etc, but if you were saving up for a deposit, you would probably not go an get a new iPhone 6 for £540 when you get a reasonable phone free with line rental less than £20 p/m. The type of person who has to buy the latest phone is probably unable to resist other luxuries for a few years, such as Sky TV.

£30,000 is not such an astronomical sum that you could not save it in 5 years or so. And you cannot look at every purchase an say, "it's only £500 - what difference does it make?", otherwise you would never get there.

And the £8000 for the average house in stamp duty - the precedent now is to buy as few times as possible unless you are a serial developer due to tax.

Then there's all the other costs, another £3K if you play pretty mean just with the moving / survey / legal and other costs.

Also factor in that good chance repairs are need - Another £2k,

That is pretty much bare min avereage house. Think end of £50K.

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So you have correctly identified that an iPhone gadget is about a sixtieth of what you need for a deposit, suggesting that buying one would not be mutually exclusive with building up a deposit. I disagree. I am not making some Daily Telegraph reader comment about "kids today with their ipods and holidays, we never had that..." etc, but if you were saving up for a deposit, you would probably not go an get a new iPhone 6 for £540 when you get a reasonable phone free with line rental less than £20 p/m. The type of person who has to buy the latest phone is probably unable to resist other luxuries for a few years, such as Sky TV.

£30,000 is not such an astronomical sum that you could not save it in 5 years or so. And you cannot look at every purchase an say, "it's only £500 - what difference does it make?", otherwise you would never get there.

I think it's worth noting that most 18-30 year olds in the UK don't own much stuff other than a smartphone and a computer, perhaps for the simple reason that they wouldn't have anywhere to put it. Even car ownership is on the decline in this age group. Sky TV subscriptions are the indulgence of people in their 40s and 50s, you're not likely to get one as an 18-30 year old living in your parents' home or a rented house, and anyway why would you need one in the Netflix age?

iPhones are often held up as an example of conspicuous consumption by young people with the implicit assumption that they are just the tip of the iceberg and they must be buying loads of other stuff too. I don't think this assumption is accurate.

Electronic entertainment isn't a rich man's luxury, it's a cheap pleasure for people who can't afford nice things in real life.

Edited by Dorkins

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I think it's worth noting that most 18-30 year olds in the UK don't own much stuff other than a smartphone and a computer, perhaps for the simple reason that they wouldn't have anywhere to put it. Even car ownership is on the decline in this age group. Sky TV subscriptions are the indulgence of people in their 40s and 50s, you're not likely to get one as an 18-30 year old living in your parents' home or a rented house, and anyway why would you need one in the Netflix age?

iPhones are often held up as an example of conspicuous consumption by young people with the implicit assumption that they are just the tip of the iceberg and they must be buying loads of other stuff too. I don't think this assumption is accurate.

Facebook et al has replaced a lot of going out face to face, internet dating etc etc, as much as anything virtualizing their lilfe is a reflection of the cost of living it outside, hence partly the decline of pubs (and nightclubs). BT hammering line rental again - another 6/7%, another reason to just have everything on phone, including internet and replacement for computer, hence me commed from Jobs and how utteler spectacularly wrong he was about large phones, many will sling the computer too, there is the games machine market though, but agaqin that is a virtual life / experience that in total costs far less than real life. The young are reacting to their environment and economics does drive it.

Edited by onlyme2

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Facebook et al has replaced a lot of going out face to face, internet dating etc etc, as much as anything virtualizing their lilfe is a reflection of the cost of living it outside, hence partly the decline of pubs (and nightclubs). BT hammering line rental again - another 6/7%, another reason to just have everything on phone, including internet and replacement for computer, hence me commed from Jobs and how utteler spectacularly wrong he was about large phones, many will sling the computer too, there is the games machine market though, but agaqin that is a virtual life / experience that in total costs far less than real life. The young are reacting to their environment and economics does drive it.

Totally agree. The big consumers are the people with the money i.e. the over-50s.

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