I Predict A Yes Vote 53:47

[Liquid Goldfish]

Alex Salmond was allowed to choose the wording, the timing and the regulations around who was allowed to vote.

Wasn't that all in return for there only beign two questions - funny how it's turned out!

[juvenal]

Now Alex has resigned he'll have plenty of time to decorate his three homes......

http://www.scotsman.com/news/alex-salmond-biography-leading-lady-the-driving-force-behind-first-minister-1-824005

Rather she saw the role of an MP's wife, and that of herself, in the more traditional Tory mould, helping with constituency work, opening flower shows and supervising their three homes, not least their Strichen cottage in Salmond's constituency, with its open log fire, beams and stripped pine floors.

[stormymonday_2011]

It has been a great day to be on the HPC site to see so many on here cheering on the Whitehall and Westminster establishment. Presumably you will be all lifting a toast tonight to run away HPI from now until Judgement Day.

Edited September 19, 2014 by stormymonday_2011

[200p]

Radio 4 - A Professor who analyzed the vote said if you were female, were richer, and over 60, you would vote for the status quo.

[onlyme2]

It has been a great day to be on the HPC site to see so many on here cheering on the Whitehall and Westminster establishment. Presumably you will be all lifting a toast tonight to run away HPI from now until Judgement Day.

Bonkers isn't it?

Think Salmond would most definitely not been the person to lead the scots into a new future, but they are certainly not going to get it now, no chance.

Stats show smaller self governing countries with reasonable assets or reasources can do extremely well for themselves and their inhabitants given the right leadership.

[b w]

It has been a great day to be on the HPC site to see so many on here cheering on the Whitehall and Westminster establishment. Presumably you will be all lifting a toast tonight to run away HPI from now until Judgement Day.

+1

Establishment wins as always and all the "im alright jacks, f**k everyone else" can be happy in the knowledge they bowed down to their betters.

[simonsaid]

It has been a great day to be on the HPC site to see so many on here cheering on the Whitehall and Westminster establishment. Presumably you will be all lifting a toast tonight to run away HPI from now until Judgement Day.

+1

Then moaning about them next week. Go figure.

[Georgia O'Keeffe]

There were many strange features to the vote: the wording, the inclusion of under 18's

yep what a disaster, debt monkeys get to vote, lets all leave it up to the queen, at least she has vaginal superiority, GB used to be an empire, it can get back there as long as im alright jack and someone else is paying for it, the problem i have with house prices is im in the wrong side of it, special flowerism is great as long as i dont suffer the indignity of it

Edited September 19, 2014 by Georgia O'Keeffe

[200p]

Radio 4 - A Professor who analyzed the vote said if you were female, were richer, and over 60, you would vote for the status quo.

Professor Curtice says the No support in different council areas was also in line with some of the expectations about the kinds of places in which the No campaign would do relatively well.

The No vote averaged 64% in areas where more than 12% of the population was born in the rest of the UK, compared with 53% in those where less than 8% were born elsewhere in the UK.

It averaged 61% in places where more than 24% of the population were aged 65 and over, compared with 51% where less than 21% were over 65 and over.

And the No vote was higher in the more rural half of Scotland - 60% - than in the more urban half, where it averaged 53%, according to John Curtice.

The No vote also averaged 60% in councils where more than 30% of the population were professional and managerial, compared with 51% where less than 26% were in professional managerial occupations, he added.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29223984

Edited September 19, 2014 by 200p

[Bruce Banner]

Are they going to get what they think they voted for or will all the hasty promises prove to be empty?

[200p]

Are they going to get what they think they voted for or will all the hasty promises prove to be empty?

Westminister, I think, can safely do nothing, and honour nothing, and we can have this referendum in 12 months and it will still be a NO. People are afraid of change.

[thecrashingisles]

Westminister, I think, can safely do nothing, and honour nothing, and we can have this referendum in 12 months and it will still be a NO. People are afraid of change.

A change of colour seems to be ok though. Maybe it's seen as a form of redecorating.

[shindigger]

Bonkers isn't it?

Think Salmond would most definitely not been the person to lead the scots into a new future, but they are certainly not going to get it now, no chance.

Stats show smaller self governing countries with reasonable assets or reasources can do extremely well for themselves and their inhabitants given the right leadership.

I wanted yes.

But really, other than sympathising with the totally disenfranchised up there who can only rely on Ed Moribund, wasn't bothered by Scotlands fate.

I just wanted it to put a rocket up Westminster.

Everyone on TV is pretending we got it.

We most certainly did not.

[SHERWICK]

Radio 4 - A Professor who analyzed the vote said if you were female, were richer, and over 60, you would vote for the status quo.

So that's Queenie then. What about everyone else?

[oracle]

It has been a great day to be on the HPC site to see so many on here cheering on the Whitehall and Westminster establishment. Presumably you will be all lifting a toast tonight to run away HPI from now until Judgement Day.

we're not cheering the establishment at all.

the scots had their independence debacle becasue they feel alienated from being governed remotely from somewhere they feel is culturally different to them.

so in no way are we sucking up to the establishment..the message to them is actually quite clear...quit the sanctimonious "we know what's best for you" claptrap.

not dissimilar to the way we feel about the EU..too top-down.

if we are grown up about it, we all need to do a bit of soul-searching and stop trying to stitch each other up..sheer spite would say now the english should have a referendum on whether scotland should stay in the union or be ejected.

best suggestion for ALL of the UK now is to use something similar to US constitution to govern what states can do and what the union,as an umbrella of delegates from above states can do.

and put THE PEOPLE as the main arbitrators, not some smoke-filled closet in brussels.

that much I think we can get basic agreement on.

Big change is coming, like it or not.

Edited September 19, 2014 by oracle

[Guest_northshore_*]

Westminster

- f*cking over peasants revolts since Wat Tyler.

About right. What's actually been achieved? Zero. Promises to win over No votes are either vague when asserted by those with a mandate to deliver, or basically irrelevant when asserted by those without one. Even assumptions of continuity are naive when the Government now know 45%ish hate them and 55% aren't keen either.

A campaign championed by cameron, brown, darling, banks, land owners and big business. And it won. Does make me wonder what part of the establishment is not on your side people still don't get.

[1929crash]

About right. What's actually been achieved? Zero. Promises to win over No votes are either vague when asserted by those with a mandate to deliver, or basically irrelevant when asserted by those without one. Even assumptions of continuity are naive when the Government now know 45%ish hate them and 55% aren't keen either.

A campaign championed by cameron, brown, darling, banks, land owners and big business. And it won. Does make me wonder what part of the establishment is not on your side people still don't get.

The idea of Scottish independence was bogus - without any attempt to leave the EU or utilise its own currency, the independence on offer was as genuine as the sort you would find in the old South African bantustans.

In any event, I fail to see how small countries are going to have anything other than less ability to stand up to the global mega-corporations.

[Guest_northshore_*]

The idea of Scottish independence was bogus - without any attempt to leave the EU or utilise its own currency, the independence on offer was as genuine as the sort you would find in the old South African bantustans.

In any event, I fail to see how small countries are going to have anything other than less ability to stand up to the global mega-corporations.

That's nonsense, but you're right in that if everybody thinks like you there's no progress. Why do you set the terms according to those dictated to you by the media and self-interest groups? I appreciate the general irrelevance of true sovereignty these days but that does not preclude steps in the right direction. Perhaps you think it's best we all just roll over and accept defeat forever but I don't. I was actually quite excited at the unlikely prospect of being able to cheer on a small chunk of progress for Scotland, even if at my expense. But indocrination and fear won. Maybe I like to dream but don't assume we're all indoctrinated or fearful.

[1929crash]

That's nonsense, but you're right in that if everybody thinks like you there's no progress. Why do you set the terms according to those dictated to you by the media and self-interest groups? I appreciate the general irrelevance of true sovereignty these days but that does not preclude steps in the right direction. Perhaps you think it's best we all just roll over and accept defeat forever but I don't. I was actually quite excited at the unlikely prospect of being able to cheer on a small chunk of progress for Scotland, even if at my expense. But indocrination and fear won. Maybe I like to dream but don't assume we're all indoctrinated or fearful.

I have not taken my lead from the media - as I recall, the media are bitterly against anyone who opposes the EU.

I have experience of the nationalists in Wales - they have permanent hard-ons for Brussels and they are no different in Scotland.

You make me think of some poor man in the middle of poland in 1939, wondering whether he should go west and live under German rule, or east to exist under Soviet rule.

[Guest_northshore_*]

I have not taken my lead from the media - as I recall, the media are bitterly against anyone who opposes the EU.

I have experience of the nationalists in Wales - they have permanent hard-ons for Brussels and they are no different in Scotland.

You make me think of some poor man in the middle of poland in 1939, wondering whether he should go west and live under German rule, or east to exist under Soviet rule.

No I don't, that's just a stupid and badly chosen analogy attempting to assert intellect via knowledge of random history, and completely inappropriate in application to a fellow anonynous internet warrior on an anonymous forum in one of the safest, wealthiest countries in the world. But I'm glad I've made you think, because judging from your wealth of posts on the referendum I wasn't sure you were capable of independent thought.

On Scotland and EU/£ etc, my point was just that it should (have) be up to them to decide. I'm simply pro people and I don't think this will all now work out well for Scots, but time will tell.

[1929crash]

No I don't, that's just a stupid and badly chosen analogy attempting to assert intellect via knowledge of random history, and completely inappropriate in application to a fellow anonynous internet warrior on an anonymous forum in one of the safest, wealthiest countries in the world. But I'm glad I've made you think, because judging from your wealth of posts on the referendum I wasn't sure you were capable of independent thought.

On Scotland and EU/£ etc, my point was just that it should (have) be up to them to decide. I'm simply pro people and I don't think this will all now work out well for Scots, but time will tell.

I think my anaology was perfectly aposite. Austerity from Camoron or austerity from Merkel and Draghi.

[South Lorne]

I wanted yes.

But really, other than sympathising with the totally disenfranchised up there who can only rely on Ed Moribund, wasn't bothered by Scotlands fate.

I just wanted it to put a rocket up Westminster.

Everyone on TV is pretending we got it.

We most certainly did not.

...nobody can rely on Ed the Red....not even his own brother....Salmond resigned to allow Nicola Sturgeon to take over and he knows she can secure more of the woman vote than he can...Cameron knows if he does not deliver with Ed the Mule then Scotland will ask for a rerun ....which will be justifiable.....lots of action to come .....

Edited September 20, 2014 by South Lorne

[Guest_northshore_*]

I think my anaology was perfectly aposite. Austerity from Camoron or austerity from Merkel and Draghi.

I prefer to think of life and opportunities, including independence debates, in more than two dimensions. Perhaps that makes me over optimistic. It increasingly feels that way.

[Economic Exile]

I have not taken my lead from the media - as I recall, the media are bitterly against anyone who opposes the EU.

I have experience of the nationalists in Wales - they have permanent hard-ons for Brussels and they are no different in Scotland.

You make me think of some poor man in the middle of poland in 1939, wondering whether he should go west and live under German rule, or east to exist under Soviet rule.

Yes that's what I recall.

I wonder what's going to happen in england, the most densely populated area of the uk, if polls show that ukip is gaining support?

A replay of the scottish referendum with stereotyping the upstarts? It'll be a step up from 5? million people to 65? million people.

[Economic Exile]

There will be no change through the current voting arrangements. None, nothing, nill, less than one & that is without taking into account voter disenfranchisement.

[cliche mode] If voting changed anything [/cliche mode]

Sadly any change will be as a result of violence as all other avenues are closed off by representative democracy. When people are offered a choice between change and fear its proven that fear will prevail.

Where is this change going to come from in your opinion, offer me some hope because I'm afraid it's never going to happen.

Yes I agree. Although I don't have much hope to offer.

Let's hope westminster delivers "the signed and heartfelt vow" because there's a risk that the negative elements of the referendum campaign can turn very nasty. And all the grassroots happy people that have been working towards a better world will become resentful and angrier.