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I Predict A Yes Vote 53:47


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Yes or no, the SNP have either.

  • Broken up the UK.
  • Split Scotland in 2.
  • Broken up the UK and split Scotland in 2

by hoodwinking enough Yes voters into a blinkered quest for 'freedom'.

Freedom from what I'm not sure. I'm not even sure they know either, but when life is 'tough' (as it usually is for 99% of the world) it sounds good, dunnit?

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Think it will be a clear No....53/47.

The Yes supporters have rather let Salmond down in my opinion.

The campaign has got nasty, rather depressing actually, fear and intimidation that really you would only associate with a Banana Republic. The no vote are keeping silent for obvious reasons.

I think the thuggery and hatred will turn a lot of Yes voters off.

I guess there is a cultural aggressive way of debating north of the border that south of the border we may be misinterpreting. But it is quite intimidating just watching it.

I think you've been swallowing too much of the media Kool-aid ... the last minute spin (led by the BBC as usual) was to portray 'Yes' supporters as bullying, swivel-eyed loons pushing decent Scots into a separate state. Obviously it's up to the 'reasonable' people to turn out and vote 'No'.

That of course follows weeks of telling people that independence spells wreck and ruin for Scotland and that decades of oil reserves are a terrible curse to have .... <_<

Anyway, I reckon the vote will be 'No' for the simple reason that people are afraid of change and there's a natural resistance to it - probably something like 53-47. And realistically, Scotland was never going to be allowed to secede from Westminster control so 'No' will be returned even if enough Scottish people woke up.

That said, I am impressed at how enthusiastically the Scots have engaged with the issues and I think that it will spur changes in the longer term. The English on the other hand seem to be content to slump in front of their tellies watching an endless diet of Premiership football, soap operas and reality TV whilst getting trollied on cheap supermarket booze. Can't see them changing any time soon - pure sheep.

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I think you've been swallowing too much of the media Kool-aid ... the last minute spin (led by the BBC as usual) was to portray 'Yes' supporters as bullying, swivel-eyed loons pushing decent Scots into a separate state. Obviously it's up to the 'reasonable' people to turn out and vote 'No'.

That of course follows weeks of telling people that independence spells wreck and ruin for Scotland and that decades of oil reserves are a terrible curse to have .... <_<

Anyway, I reckon the vote will be 'No' for the simple reason that people are afraid of change and there's a natural resistance to it - probably something like 53-47. And realistically, Scotland was never going to be allowed to secede from Westminster control so 'No' will be returned even if enough Scottish people woke up.

That said, I am impressed at how enthusiastically the Scots have engaged with the issues and I think that it will spur changes in the longer term. The English on the other hand seem to be content to slump in front of their tellies watching an endless diet of Premiership football, soap operas and reality TV whilst getting trollied on cheap supermarket booze. Can't see them changing any time soon - pure sheep.

+1

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I've already voted Yes, but I'm not sure if we are going to do it. However there is one silver lining to a narrow defeat - I predict that Cameron, Clegg and Milliband will completely fail to deliver on the "vow" that was on the front page of the Daily Record a few days ago.

Once that happens the SNP will be back in power in Scotland in 2016 (Sturgeon for FM perhaps) and we might be ready to give it another try.

How many 16 years olds work as a proportion of total number?......and giving them a vote would be irresponsible.....without causing offence, their brains are not fully aware of the world they live in.....a vast majority are hedonistic without care for the future.....

I worked and paid a small amount of tax and NI when I was sixteen, so I think I should have got the vote.

If you had watched the big big debate you would realise that there are plenty of 16/17 year olds who are far better informed on political issues than folk who are eligbible to vote. More power to them I say.

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I'm meant to be working from home today so I took advantage of being able to miss the rush times and have just voted.

I don't know if it's any indication of how the vote will go, but the polling station was relatively quiet. Three pensioners were dropped off from a car showing several No stickers. The driver then drove off - perhaps to get more? In the car park there was a Bently, an X6 and a Porsche SUV thingy. Who knows what that indicates other than people spend too much money on status symbols. I walked! At the door were two No canvassers.

Over the last couple of weeks, the people I've met have been predominately Yes supporters. However, I didn't see a single Yes badge at the polling station. If it's a case of Yes supporters not having enough motivation to become Yes voters, then they only have themselves to blame if the vote doesn't go their way. I can understand that apathy for most elections, but not for this. Having lived in Labour strongholds all my life, this is the first vote in my 25 years of voting where my vote will actually have an effect on the final result.

Regarding the campaign, regardless of the result of the vote, I do believe the Yes side came across better. However, both sides were aggressive and argumentative. The BBC coverage has been terrible. Last night's Channel 4 program put them to shame. It was still very argumentative and a bit gimmicky, but it didn't descend into two people shouting over each other continuously. On social media there have been examples of violence against both sides, which is sad. I think it's a bit unfair to blame the undoubted division after the result on Salmond, but it will take time for the resentment to fade.

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How many 16 years olds work as a proportion of total number?......and giving them a vote would be irresponsible.....without causing offence, their brains are not fully aware of the world they live in.....a vast majority are hedonistic without care for the future.....

How many members of the general electorate do you think are fully aware of the world that they live in and how the mechanism of 'the system' actually works and controls them?

What matters is that people engage and inform themselves - something that the great mass of the public simply refuse to do.

Bravo to the Scots for engaging on such a large scale. I don't think that the 'Yes' campaign will win the day but it has sown the seeds for a sea change in resistance to being manipulated by the Establishment, in Scotland anyway.

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Bravo to the Scots for engaging on such a large scale. I don't think that the 'Yes' campaign will win the day but it has sown the seeds for a sea change in resistance to being manipulated by the Establishment, in Scotland anyway.

...the manipulation I am concerned about is the way the Labour Party uses it's Scots MPs to vote on matters which do not concern them ...when the Labour Government introduced Uni fees in England and Wales they used the Scots MPs to push it through when in Scotland the country had opted for Free Uni.....this is a betrayal by a devious party ...no wonder Gordon Brown wants a NO.....YES is good for both sides of the border.... :rolleyes:

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...the manipulation I am concerned about is the way the Labour Party uses it's Scots MPs to vote on matters which do not concern them ...when the Labour Government introduced Uni fees in England and Wales they used the Scots MPs to push it through when in Scotland the country had opted for Free Uni.....this is a betrayal by a devious party ...no wonder Gordon Brown wants a NO.....YES is good for both sides of the border.... :rolleyes:

Agreed.

The SNP come in for a lot of criticism from voters on both sides of the border, a lot of which I don't really understand. Firstly, their MP's refuse to vote on matters which have no impact on Scotland. A principled stand and one I wholeheartedly agree with.

Secondly the SNP have always refused any offer of a peerage in the house of lords (unlike Plaid Cymru who have got two peerages). The SNP's own website even states that they believe "the house of lords is an affront to democracy".

With stances like that I would have thought the English electorate would have at least a bit of respect for them.

Edited by Jie Bie
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We are talking a party that commands half the support of the electorate not less than 1%. You would expect slightly better behaviour than we have had.

Is it acceptable that one side dare not show their leanings for fear of intimidation. I think not.

If that were the case, then I would agree with you. But it simply is not happening in the way you imply. There is a lot of shouting and language, but there is NOTHING like the shenanigans you suggest.

http://yes2014.net/2014/09/17/scottish-police-federation-brow-beat-press/

http://news.sky.com/story/1337090/wearing-a-no-t-shirt-in-scotlands-yes-city

Edit, having read Sour Mash's comment above.

There is massive engagement in this referendum. We are expecting a turnout the like of which we haven't seen since the war years. With such a large percentage of the population getting actively involved, the capacity for trouble has also increased.

The chattering classes have bitched for years regarding low turnout, and now that the hoi-poloi are turning up at political gatherings, they don't like their boorish behaviour!

Well fek them, and their expectations of a "civilized debate". This is the politics of the terraces, not exactly red in tooth and claw, but certainly with the volume turned up to 11! We all know that the public should be out in the streets, shouting down Westminster, their masters and their stooges, and yet some of you are still feart!

Google "UK political riot" and add 1900's, 1920's or 1930's. it used to be a lot rougher than this!

Edited by AThirdWay
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Why no referendum for the English to vote on whether or not they want to keep Scotland/Wales/NI?

As to paying taxes = right to vote, child actors and other very young tax payers get to vote? Shall we have a system where every £x of tax paid since the last election = x number of votes?

Politics is like religion, beliefs are important but never take priority over income, so the vote will be no. Hope I'm wrong on this, just for the spectacle of the Scottish parliament doing the headless chicken routine.

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Why no referendum for the English to vote on whether or not they want to keep Scotland/Wales/NI?

As to paying taxes = right to vote, child actors and other very young tax payers get to vote? Shall we have a system where every £x of tax paid since the last election = x number of votes?

Politics is like religion, beliefs are important but never take priority over income, so the vote will be no. Hope I'm wrong on this, just for the spectacle of the Scottish parliament doing the headless chicken routine.

Perhaps you should ask your MP that very question? I certainly can't answer it for you.

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Heckling (I'm referring to the civilised/reasonably good natured sort) used to be a regular and accepted feature of UK elections until NuLabour got in and part of their project seemed to be to clamp down on stuff like that and the developing change became most notably evident at the 2005 Labour conference during which an elderly Labour supporter did a bit of heckling (he shouted "nonsense" during Jack Straw's speech on Iraq) and was immediately and forcibly ejected by burly security guards and was apparently detained under the Terrorism Act.

Nowadays of course there's CCTV and security guards everywhere you look and often more guards than customers. It wasn't like that before NuLabour. The current lot haven't changed it of course.

Edited by billybong
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I think you've been swallowing too much of the media Kool-aid ... the last minute spin (led by the BBC as usual) was to portray 'Yes' supporters as bullying, swivel-eyed loons pushing decent Scots into a separate state. Obviously it's up to the 'reasonable' people to turn out and vote 'No'.

That of course follows weeks of telling people that independence spells wreck and ruin for Scotland and that decades of oil reserves are a terrible curse to have .... <_<

Anyway, I reckon the vote will be 'No' for the simple reason that people are afraid of change and there's a natural resistance to it - probably something like 53-47. And realistically, Scotland was never going to be allowed to secede from Westminster control so 'No' will be returned even if enough Scottish people woke up.

That said, I am impressed at how enthusiastically the Scots have engaged with the issues and I think that it will spur changes in the longer term. The English on the other hand seem to be content to slump in front of their tellies watching an endless diet of Premiership football, soap operas and reality TV whilst getting trollied on cheap supermarket booze. Can't see them changing any time soon - pure sheep.

That is pretty much my view

Pity really because I think the long term economic arguments for Scottish independence are surprisingly strong

BTW when the press talks about intimidation they are often complaining about noisy and unfettered expressions of views that used to be pretty common in UK politics, Sadly, those south of the order now seem to be happy to just be passive consumers of politics like every other commodity. As long as political debate is a scripted soap opera with little real involvement from the masses then the authorities in London dont seem to care. Get a bit of real participation from people and suddenly it is abuse of the 'democratic process'. Pretty rich coming from UK politicians who struggle to get a 50% plus turnout at General Elections now (the average for the last 3 is now only just above 60%) let alone a majority of the votes actually cast at the polls

Edited by stormymonday_2011
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If the offer of the latter made by Clegg, Milliband and Cameron yesterday are reneged on by the Westminster Parliament then the SNP will be able to play the betrayal card for all its worth in the 2016 Scottish elections which would probably see them enjoying permanent majority in the Scottish assembly from now until the crack of doom. History show that nationalist independence movements rarely jack it in after a defeat at the polls particularly if they feel ,rightly or wrongly, the system was rigged against them. Sooner or later they are going to be back having another crack at the issue

Bang on-there's no way the legislation will get passed before the next election so it will then become an election issue as no party has a mandate to offer the Jocks what these muppets have-result will be massive political capital for any party not committed to the bribe(UKIP Anyone)and SNP claiming betrayal and a rerun of the referendum!

You couldn't make it up!

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That is pretty much my view

Pity really because I think the long term economic arguments for Scottish independence are surprisingly strong

BTW when the press talks about intimidation they are often complaining about noisy and unfettered expressions of views that used to be pretty common in UK politics, Sadly, those south of the order now seem to be happy to just be passive consumers of politics like every other commodity. As long as political debate is a scripted soap opera with little real involvement from the masses then the authorities in London dont seem to care. Get a bit of real participation from people and suddenly it is abuse of the 'democratic process'. Pretty rich coming from UK politicians who struggle to get a 50% plus turnout at General Elections now (the average for the last 3 is now only just above 60%) let alone a majority of the votes actually cast at the polls

Not sure there is a plan for stand alone economics...Euro/pound...share of debt..pensions..ways to stop investment leaving Scotland...etc

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16 year olds should get the vote in England too. If you are old enough to pay taxes, you are old enough to vote. If not, then the age at which you pay taxes should be raised.

It`s funny how they world changes, my old man was in full time employment from 15, but didn't get to vote until 18. My son will be forced to stay in some form of education or training until 18, but may get to vote at 16.

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I think you've been swallowing too much of the media Kool-aid ... the last minute spin (led by the BBC as usual) was to portray 'Yes' supporters as bullying, swivel-eyed loons pushing decent Scots into a separate state. Obviously it's up to the 'reasonable' people to turn out and vote 'No'.

That of course follows weeks of telling people that independence spells wreck and ruin for Scotland and that decades of oil reserves are a terrible curse to have .... <_<

Anyway, I reckon the vote will be 'No' for the simple reason that people are afraid of change and there's a natural resistance to it - probably something like 53-47. And realistically, Scotland was never going to be allowed to secede from Westminster control so 'No' will be returned even if enough Scottish people woke up.

That said, I am impressed at how enthusiastically the Scots have engaged with the issues and I think that it will spur changes in the longer term. The English on the other hand seem to be content to slump in front of their tellies watching an endless diet of Premiership football, soap operas and reality TV whilst getting trollied on cheap supermarket booze. Can't see them changing any time soon - pure sheep.

Not to mention the Daily Mail coverage.......they have leapt onto Miliband in Mallgate as manna from heaven. (as to the BBC)

It looks scary, the Yes voters are being portrayed as young Trotskyites out for vengeance and retribution. The scary looking ones are the focus of the pro-No media and the No voter is some harmless looking granny.

It may be dirty tricks from the media, but I think it will work nevertheless.

(image is critical look at the Sheffield rally and what happened to Labour support)

Edited by crashmonitor
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