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Do You Think There Is Any Point Of A Europe In/out Referendum Now ?

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Having watched with some disbelief and disgust over the last week at the bias and scaremongering in the MSM regarding the Scottish referendum I now believe there is little point in a Europe in/out referendum. I believe the vote would be far from free with Westminster throwing everything at getting the "right" result.

I now see the only way of getting out of Europe is to vote UKIP at the next election.

For me we are not living in a democracy but in a country of bias and control. It's time for change or time to leave.

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i think a poll should be an annual event . . . as I believe the poll for joining the Euro is in Sweden. At least it would force people to educate themselves on the dangers of such an unelected body with such a bad case of mission creep.

As we already know,the EU would circumvent any national referendum - as it did in the case of the EU constitution. Our only hope is indeed to elect a party opposed to membership.

A good primer on You Tube from Dutch journalist Peter Vlemmix: 'Euromania'

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The bias is truly shocking, there is a professor has done a study on it and his findings are available online. The BBC went apeshit at him but his findings seemed solid and when he challenged them they backed right off.

How they try to see fear too its disgusting, the made up ******** too, north korea is for scottish independence. LOL

How quickly sworn enemies in politics close ranks to protect the establishment is shocking, all the controlled opposition quickly toe the company line. We wouldnt want to ruin there "racket"

Personally I think its truly shocking for a democracy and if the referendum has shown us one thing its the establishments true colours. If you think you will ever get a fair European referendum think again.

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If you think you will ever get a fair European referendum think again.

I think the weakness of UKIP is that it has no clear mechanism for extricating ourselves from the EU.

There are many popular protests which could be applied . . . a tax strike, for example. There are those in the Netherlands withholding the 200 odd Euro per head that Brussels costs.

Quite honestly, we now have a war in Europe for the first time in decades - instigated and supported by the EU. If there ever was any raison d'être for the EU, even that has evaporated.

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The bias is truly shocking, there is a professor has done a study on it and his findings are available online. The BBC went apeshit at him but his findings seemed solid and when he challenged them they backed right off.

How they try to see fear too its disgusting, the made up ******** too, north korea is for scottish independence. LOL

How quickly sworn enemies in politics close ranks to protect the establishment is shocking, all the controlled opposition quickly toe the company line. We wouldnt want to ruin there "racket"

Personally I think its truly shocking for a democracy and if the referendum has shown us one thing its the establishments true colours. If you think you will ever get a fair European referendum think again.

+1

Our democratically elected government has made a mockery of democracy this week...quite possibly they have destroyed what little faith people had left in Westminster.

Times will change, but how long these men ( and I use this term in only the biological sense) can hang onto the status quo is anyone's quess.

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Slightly different case.

The mainstream meeja want out of the EU, and have whipped up a lot of anti-EU sentiment over the years, much of it on the basis of outright lies. But the Westminster Establishment isn't united behind them. We'd have the business community, and likely even the Prime Minister (albeit perhaps halfheartedly), campaigning against the meeja spin.

OK, that odious s**t has got more BBC airtime than any other politician for upwards of a decade and the support of most of the rest of the meeja - hence the idea that he's 'respectable' and the fear amongst the tories. But even so, I suspect they're misreading the issue, and a lot of his public support rests on the populist talk on a bunch of issues he's filled all that airtime with.

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...The mainstream meeja want out of the EU...

1328391552_orly.jpg

Why do they want out of the EU? What difference does it make to them either way (genuine question).

Edited by Bear Goggles

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OK, that odious s**t has got more BBC airtime than any other politician for upwards of a decade and the support of most of the rest of the meeja - hence the idea that he's 'respectable' and the fear amongst the tories. But even so, I suspect they're misreading the issue, and a lot of his public support rests on the populist talk on a bunch of issues he's filled all that airtime with.

which odious shit?

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Why do they want out of the EU? What difference does it make to them either way (genuine question).

OK, I meant to say, influential proprietors who see us as the next United State.

The likes of Murdoch. And Conrad Black before he was banged up for fraud. Very much in the driving seat of the "discredit the EU" campaign. And after several attempts (like Goldsmith's "referendum" party), they've now succeeded in putting momentum behind a populist demagogue and a political party standing for election.

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The problem I have with the EU is border control.

I am not rascist or anti-immigrantion in principle, but I am strongly against further mass immigration & want to see an Australian points model implemented and the removal of this 'family life' stuff where one person moves here and therefore by association is allowed to progressively import their entire extended family.

Camoron gave it large about the hundreds of thousands becoming "tens of thousands" and he hasn't delivered - whether you believe this is because he can't due to the EU (as UKIP and anti-EU Tories would have it) or because he never intended to as he only serves banksters (as HPC would have it), the fact remains he didn't deliver.

UKIP promise to give me what I want, but they would take us out of the EU to do it - I'm starting to think it would be a price worth paying. The only thing I can't reconcile myself to is the obnoxious little england entitled boomer NIMBY mentality of the party.

Edited by disenfranchised

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UKIP promise to give me what I want, but they would take us out of the EU to do it - I'm starting to think it would be a price worth paying. The only thing I can't reconcile myself to is the obnoxious little england entitled boomer NIMBY mentality of the party.

There is an alternative ... the socialist UKIP. But it's working class, so both the tory press and the champagne-socialists hate it, and noone was going to build it up like the middle-class Establishment lot.

[edit to add] No, I don't think they're any better than the establishment UKIP. Though there is a third head of that hydra calling it something like "English Democrats" that at least doesn't subscribe to that absurd superstate that's being voted on this week.

Edited by porca misèria

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Personally I think its truly shocking for a democracy and if the referendum has shown us one thing its the establishments true colours. If you think you will ever get a fair European referendum think again.

Yup. A complete stitch up, or attempted stitch up. Might not work though, I am reminded of the relentless, cross party, cross media smear campaign waged against UKIP in the runup to the European elections.

It had an effect too, before that point among my not very political colleagues UKIP barely got a mention, or if it did a fairly neutral one, but now you'd think they are the BNP.

Just makes me hate the elite even more than I already do. These tactics are part of the problem, no wonder people feel disenfranchised. I guess these tactics don't work on the politically aware and motivated, they just manipulate those who just shrug and therefore presumably aren't the alienated ones.

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...think many of the 'rest of the UK' are pledging themselves this way..... :rolleyes:

You know, they aren't. One analysis of UKIP supporters in Clacton showed that only 13% thought Europe was the main issue.

And in any case, will they make any difference as a national party? Not as long as 80% of our legislation is determined in Brussels.

I know what you are saying and yes, it's silly, but until we have taken back sovereignty and democracy it's equally pointless voting for anyone else.

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The question is would the people who really run things even allow Cameron to hold an in/out Eu referendum now- given the way he's messed up the scottish thing? I don't think they will risk it.

Any chance that the Tories would actually follow through on their promise to allow a vote on leaving the EU has been wiped out by the close call in the north- even if they get their no vote the PTB will not risk allowing the great unwashed to make any other important decisions in the future.

The whole point of holding a referendum is to know the outcome in advance- and Scotland has demonstrated just how difficult it is to predict the outcome of such things. So forget the idea that any establishment party will allow a referendum on leaving Europe- this will never happen- not now.

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The establishment seems to have achieved the impossible without the great unwashed even realising it.

1. Property prices and rents being bid up and up by the rich.

2. Falling wages for the poor with the poor bidding down the wages they will work for.

Importing cheap labour from all over the world and then from EU has driven down wages in the bottom percentile. Most cleaners get less than the minimum wage - don't believe me, ask the office cleaner ~ if he/she speaks English she will probably tell you.

Escaping Malthus's trap; (from The Rational Optimist by Matt Ridley page 195)

Inevitably and gradually the population boom overtook the economy's productivity. Rents inflated and wages deflated: The rich were bidding up land prices while the poor were bidding down wages. By 1315 AD real wages had halved in a century.

It ends in famine when there are sodden summers in 1315 and 1317. Europe's population stagnated until the black death in 1340. By 1450 the population had fallen back to the levels of 1200.

Can't happen again? Reduced biodiversity of grains. Sharp rise in antibiotic resistant bugs, Fields covered in useless solar panels, Nuclear power failing (Dungeness B - look at the current output, less than half that promised and it shuts in 2018).

Wake up and smell the ergot guys! Voting UKIP isn't going to save us. Burning a few witches/MPs might make us feel better although putting some of the lardies of Westminster in a ducking stool would probably break it.

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Change is coming it is inevitable. The can kicking is getting harder and harder.

The Scotland vote whichever way it goes is going to cause some change. An EU in/out vote if we get one will be another.

Inflation may be lower than expected but it is still out striping wages, people cannot take on more debt without dodgy home buy schemes. Kids have woken up to the scam that is university education. The changes to the benefits regime are punitive.

There will be a tipping point, if Scotland go and their government is seen to be much more for its people the tipping point will arrive much sooner.

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You know, they aren't. One analysis of UKIP supporters in Clacton showed that only 13% thought Europe was the main issue.

And in any case, will they make any difference as a national party? Not as long as 80% of our legislation is determined in Brussels.

I know what you are saying and yes, it's silly, but until we have taken back sovereignty and democracy it's equally pointless voting for anyone else.

..depends for whom you are voting ...Millie with the Lollipop...is not the answer ....Clacton is not the centre of the UK....the race is on..... :rolleyes:

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Can we move the cranks over to politics or current affairs where they belong?

Kxthxbye

...the clueless do not understand Economics is linked to POLITICS AND REFERENDUMS...... :rolleyes:

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....Inflation may be lower than expected but it is still out striping wages.....

..that is because Gordo's tax credits stop people requesting or refusing wage increases in case it affects their benefits...will the free Scotland have these ...?....I know this is not the way forward...UK taxpayers subsidising international corporates labour costs....good one Gordo ...some economist....!..... :rolleyes:

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