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Nhs Faces Mounting Financial Crisis As Deficit Heads Towards £1Bn

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http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/15/nhs-financial-crisis-deficit-1bn-hospitals

The NHS is facing a mounting financial crisis with more than half of all hospitals now in deficit and the service likely to end the year almost £1bn in the red.

Two sets of official figures later this week covering the NHS's performance in April, May and June will confirm a sudden, sharp and dramatic deterioration in its financial health between the first three months of 2014 and that quarter.

The pressure on services is so great and money so tight that, for the first time, a majority of hospitals ended that period in the red and accumulated a collective deficit approaching £500m.

NHS officials familiar with the situation say the speed with which financial troubles have deepened, and sheer number of NHS hospital trusts now affected, is causing unease at the Department of Health. Insiders say that figures due out on Friday are far worse than expected and likely to make "grim reading" for health secretary Jeremy Hunt. Hunt has already given hospitals more than £1bn of extra funding over the last year to help them cope with winter pressures and tackle a mounting backlog of operations, which recently reached a six-year high.

NHS leaders say privately that without an urgent bailout from the government, hospitals' overall deficit is likely to have increased further, and be approaching £1bn, by the time the NHS's financial year ends in March.

And as many as three-quarters of all England's hospitals could be in the red by then, they believe.

Hospital chief executives say the need to hire extra staff to maintain care standards in the wake of the Mid Staffs scandal, demand for A&E care, cuts in the fees they receive for treating patients and the NHS's £20bn savings drive has left them increasingly unable to balance their books

PFI spiralling out of control?

Although compared to the money given to the bankers £1bn is chicken feed, although I suppose ironically if we give them more money this money will go to the bankers via PFI?

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They'll probably start charging the middle classes soon for everything they can get away with as they can "afford it". Free only to those on full benefits.

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A crisis deliberately created by this government.

Spot on I suspect.

You can't "rescue" the NHS with privitisation unless you first create the need for said rescue in the first place.

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Spot on I suspect.

You can't "rescue" the NHS with privitisation unless you first create the need for said rescue in the first place.

Its a mathematical certainty not a political strategy-the Bullingdon Boys have maintained and increased the spend on the NHS and tried to improve productivity but the fact is that with a zero price point demand is infinite and combine that with an increasing population,an ageing population,an increasing proportion of overweight/unhealthy people(check out the stats for weight related diabetes-truly scary) ,improved but more costly drugs and treatments for previously terminal illnesses,etc etc then its going to break unless you come clean and depoliticise it and agree that everybody is going to have the treatment they need(defined by ?)for free and the basic rate of tax (or even higher rate if it suits your political persuasion)will be adjsusted annually to ensure the HHS is fully funded.

Then step back and watch the fun.!

and I haven't mentioned PFI (thanks Gordon)or the endless IT write offs or unecessary managerial costs-unfortunately its extremely complicated (not least because of its sheer scale)and politicos of all shades do not have the ability or inclination to address the problems in any meaningful way-but hey-lets reduce it to soundbites such as "hands off our NHS" or "no privatisation of the NHS"-that should sort it out !

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Spot on I suspect.

You can't "rescue" the NHS with privitisation unless you first create the need for said rescue in the first place.this government

This government has been cutting the funding but asking them to do more.

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Spot on I suspect.

You can't "rescue" the NHS with privitisation unless you first create the need for said rescue in the first place.

...yeah ...I didn't see the invitation for tenders ...were these deals done behind close doors like gangsters in an alleyway with lookouts.....?...... :rolleyes:

Edited by South Lorne

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This government has been cutting the funding but asking them to do more.

...probably funding to the front line ...but not to the Admin faceless managers...who are they ...how are they appointed ...and when given redundancy why are they re-employed immediately...by another Trust (strange term)...?....

Edited by South Lorne

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Spot on I suspect.

You can't "rescue" the NHS with privitisation unless you first create the need for said rescue in the first place.

True

But the previous government gave them a big head start besides

Edited by Si1

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I know a few people in back office jobs in the NHS (admin, 'data analysts' etc), they're all very much of the opinion that they've got a job for life there. I wonder if they're in for a bit of a surprise just like Local Government got/is going through....?

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I know a few people in back office jobs in the NHS (admin, 'data analysts' etc), they're all very much of the opinion that they've got a job for life there. I wonder if they're in for a bit of a surprise just like Local Government got/is going through....?

...it's a bit like typists in the old days ..you don't have them now....doctors and other medics can analyse their own data now ..we are all data analysts.... :rolleyes:

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Yep, devolution of data analysis tools like Office, Power BI, Google trends are going to make data increasingly accessible to everyone over the next decade. Don't think there'll be much of a function left for specific analysts. But jobs for everyone tho, yeah?

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True

But the previous government gave them a big head start besides

Yep, the philanthropist of the year germinated this.

NHS = cut from the knees down and told to run faster

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Yep, devolution of data analysis tools like Office, Power BI, Google trends are going to make data increasingly accessible to everyone over the next decade. Don't think there'll be much of a function left for specific analysts. But jobs for everyone tho, yeah?

Dream on. Constant government meddling/reorganization and marketisation requires more information/contracting staff,not less.

Mass recentralization may work in reducing costs. Privatization certainty won't (ask Serco).

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Although compared to the money given to the bankers £1bn is chicken feed, although I suppose ironically if we give them more money this money will go to the bankers via PFI?

Yes, that was my first thought too - after the hundreds of billions magicked up on demands to keep the banksters from facing the consequences of their greed and corruption, a billion to ensure health care for the entire public is total peanuts.

Not that the media will report this angle or the general public will cotton on. I'm always amazed whenever there is a debate about whether or not to do/provide something beneficial to the greater good because it would be 'too expensive for the taxpayer' when we have a never ending instigation and prosecution of expensive foreign wars and seemingly unlimited financial resources to throw at the banking industry.

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Its a mathematical certainty not a political strategy-the Bullingdon Boys have maintained and increased the spend on the NHS and tried to improve productivity but the fact is that with a zero price point demand is infinite and combine that with an increasing population,an ageing population,an increasing proportion of overweight/unhealthy people(check out the stats for weight related diabetes-truly scary) ,improved but more costly drugs and treatments for previously terminal illnesses,etc etc then its going to break unless you come clean and depoliticise it and agree that everybody is going to have the treatment they need(defined by ?)for free and the basic rate of tax (or even higher rate if it suits your political persuasion)will be adjsusted annually to ensure the HHS is fully funded.

Then step back and watch the fun.!

and I haven't mentioned PFI (thanks Gordon)or the endless IT write offs or unecessary managerial costs-unfortunately its extremely complicated (not least because of its sheer scale)and politicos of all shades do not have the ability or inclination to address the problems in any meaningful way-but hey-lets reduce it to soundbites such as "hands off our NHS" or "no privatisation of the NHS"-that should sort it out !

Good post.

The one point I would add is that the country seems to be unable to have a serious debate about what the NHS is for and what is affordable. Any debate always comes down to the left screaming "privatisation" and the argument is closed down.

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Good post.

The one point I would add is that the country seems to be unable to have a serious debate about what the NHS is for and what is affordable. Any debate always comes down to the left screaming "privatisation" and the argument is closed down.

Probably due to recent history. How much was the Royal Mail undersold for again? Is it our privatized utilities building the new powerstations, or their state owned counterparts?

There are other health systems out there free from crony capitalist opportunits, yet you can't blame the cynicism for the abomination we'd probably end up with. Get rid of the spivs and parasites first, if you can shout past their lobbyists. Then people may be more open to change.

Edited by PopGun

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There are other health systems out there free from crony capitalist opportunits

Name them (I can think of two likely candidates BTW)

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Probably due to recent history. How much was the Royal Mail undersold for again? Is it our privatized utilities building the new powerstations, or their state owned counterparts?

There are other health systems out there free from crony capitalist opportunits, yet you can't blame the cynicism for the abomination we'd probably end up with. Get rid of the spivs and parasites first, if you can shout past their lobbyists. Then people may be more open to change.

I think that pretty much sums up my feelings on it.

Privitisation just means private spivs instead of state spivs.

The problem is you can't vote the private spivs running it out once they've got it and if it's a franchise it ends up being the state spivs deciding who gets the monopoly anyway.

About the only people who benefit are lobbyists and MPs taking their money.

Nothing privitised has got cheaper other than telecommunications (and I really think that's more down to technological advancement than anything else).

Private (selling off) state housing? 300% increase in housing benefit costs inside 25 years.

Privatisation of the railways? A 300% increase in state costs compared to British Rail.

Private ownership of energy companies? Foreign state-owned companies snapping them up and spiralling prices.

I'm not saying private healthcare couldn't work in this country, but on past precedents the chances of it working out better for the UK population than it does for all the lobbyists, fat cats, and MPs is pretty minimal.

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Name them (I can think of two likely candidates BTW)

As far as I understand, Canada and Brazil harbour the only 2 other national health service style nationalised centralised systems, all other free healthcare systems are heavily marketised

I think, but welcome discussion

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As far as I understand, Canada and Brazil harbour the only 2 other national health service style nationalised centralised systems, all other free healthcare systems are heavily marketised

I think, but welcome discussion

Decentralisation does not equate with privatisation.

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Decentralisation does not equate with privatisation.

Logically public ownership requires central coordination (in place of markets), in order to allocate resources, no?

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Logically public ownership requires central coordination (in place of markets), in order to allocate resources, no?

Pretty much. It worked fine before bat$hits carved the NHS system up, enforced phoney marketisation, targets and the biggest demographic in human history got old and sick at once.

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