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Amateur Idiot

Do Arseholes Get Further In Life?

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I've got the stereo-typical "nice guy" personality, which at first glance might seem like a good thing.

However, on deeper analysis and consideration of all that I've experienced over the last 30 years, I'm coming more and more round to thinking that it is a significant handicap and general disadantage in life. The arsehole type people appear to get further, both in terms of wealth and of love.

I imagine that being a complete tw@t is going too far and would probably lead ultimately to bad things. However, I do wonder whether things might just go more my way if I could move away from the nice-guy persona and tend, at least slightly, towards being an arsehole.

That's just my opinion. What say you, my learned friends?

Cheers,
Amateur Idiot

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert. The above comments are just my opinions only and they may not be factually correct. If you act on any of the above then you do so entirely at your own risk. I do not accept any liability.

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It's more complex than that. You've got to be just the right amount of arsehole in just the right way. It's a minefield. Nice guys would love to believe it's just about being more of an arsehole and they wouldn't stoop to that. A good primer on being the right amount of arsehole in the right way is the 48 laws of power. You can be a nice guy and an arsehole at the same time. It;s all a question of perspective.

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Depends what you mean by "go further" I think...certain roads you can only go down by becoming an ars3hole :)

I tend to think of it this way...some people can behave in ways I can't, but still manage to sleep at night. I say good luck to them, and may they 'enjoy' their ill-gotten gains :)

P

Depends what you mean by arsehole. Our MD is a tough SOB. Genuinely scary and would ****** you up if you crossed her. But her appraoch makes money for the business and puts food on my family's table. Arsehole?

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Depends what you mean by arsehole. Our MD is a tough SOB. Genuinely scary and would ****** you up if you crossed her. But her appraoch makes money for the business and puts food on my family's table. Arsehole?

I would say so - yes! There are easier ways to get the food on your table.

Many moons ago in my youth I worked, for a while, at a company whose MD had a 'reputation' - and was warned that whenever he came round to the site where I worked I would see and hear for myself.

Turned out that one visit from him, and his doing the rounds, I missed - but was told others in my group were fairly evenly talked down to, patronised, insulted, etc. Grunts and Managers alike. I commented to a colleague something along the lines of "well if he ever speaks to me like that I will tell him where he can put his....". You get the gist.

Eventually that day came. To cut a long story short. I got spoken to like a naughty nine year old and, just as his back was about to turn to me, I got up and spoke out (loud enough for all to hear), with arms crossed, asking him who the f**k he thought he was. The effect was as if he had been hit by a sledgehammer and, as far as I could tell, no one had ever spoken to him like that before.

I actually kept my job - but still ended up telling them/him to shove it not much long after when I had found something better.

All that said, however, I do concur and have observed, depressingly, over many years that yes it does seem as though far too many ars*holes seem to get ahead of the nice guys (and women).

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I would say so - yes! There are easier ways to get the food on your table.

Many moons ago in my youth I worked, for a while, at a company whose MD had a 'reputation' - and was warned that whenever he came round to the site where I worked I would see and hear for myself.

Turned out that one visit from him, and his doing the rounds, I missed - but was told others in my group were fairly evenly talked down to, patronised, insulted, etc. Grunts and Managers alike. I commented to a colleague something along the lines of "well if he ever speaks to me like that I will tell him where he can put his....". You get the gist.

Eventually that day came. To cut a long story short. I got spoken to like a naughty nine year old and, just as his back was about to turn to me, I got up and spoke out (loud enough for all to hear), with arms crossed, asking him who the f**k he thought he was. The effect was as if he had been hit by a sledgehammer and, as far as I could tell, no one had ever spoken to him like that before.

I actually kept my job - but still ended up telling them/him to shove it not much long after when I had found something better.

All that said, however, I do concur and have observed, depressingly, over many years that yes it does seem as though far too many ars*holes seem to get ahead of the nice guys (and women).

So you behaved like an arsehole?

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If by "get further", you mean success in business / career.. Then I would say no.

Being good at stuff and knowing the value of what you can do makes you successful (IMHO).

Nice guys get taken advantage of if they are good at stuff but don't realise their own value in the wider market place (ie, don't get pay rises / promotions to reflect their contribution).

In my limited experience most people who have made it to relative positions of power are "nice guys".. But also smart, usually competitive and sometimes ruthless.

For every @rsehole who doesn't deserve a given position there is an equal and opposite @ss licker.

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If by "get further", you mean success in business / career.. Then I would say no.

Being good at stuff and knowing the value of what you can do makes you successful (IMHO).

Nice guys get taken advantage of if they are good at stuff but don't realise their own value in the wider market place (ie, don't get pay rises / promotions to reflect their contribution).

In my limited experience most people who have made it to relative positions of power are "nice guys".. But also smart, usually competitive and sometimes ruthless.

For every @rsehole who doesn't deserve a given position there is an equal and opposite @ss licker.

Yes.

Too many people see themselves as 'nice guys' who don't have what they deserve without realising that many people in positions of power are also nice guys, but with particular traits.

It's much more complex than just being an arsehole or not. As I said, you;ve got to know when to be an arsehole and how to be one. And one person's view of what one is can be different to another's. Read the 48 Laws of Power, it's a good and very useful summary..

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In terms of love / Attraction to ladies..

I'm probably not qualified to say, other than again, being "nice" probably Isn't the biggest factor.

Typical answers you hear when girls/ladies are questioned about a ideal partner are:

Hot / good looking

Funny / makes me laugh

Good personality (whatever the f*** that means)

Intelligent

Challenging

Etc..

"Nice guy" doesn't usually get a look in.. So don't rely on being nice = get you laid. It just means you don't get written off as an @sshole.

:)

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There's standing your ground, but being humble enough to ask for help when you need it - not an arsehole....stubborn can often equal arsehole, as is squatting over everyone for your own gains...personally couldn't live like that...

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If by "get further", you mean success in business / career.. Then I would say no.

Being good at stuff and knowing the value of what you can do makes you successful (IMHO).

Nice guys get taken advantage of if they are good at stuff but don't realise their own value in the wider market place (ie, don't get pay rises / promotions to reflect their contribution).

In my limited experience most people who have made it to relative positions of power are "nice guys".. But also smart, usually competitive and sometimes ruthless.

For every @rsehole who doesn't deserve a given position there is an equal and opposite @ss licker.

Yes, that's what I've seen too. The most successful people I know in terms of advancing to high positions in their chosen careers are genuinely friendly and sociable people, but with a certain streak of single-minded determination. The job always comes first.

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I think we may think they have a better life and loves but often this is not always the case....nothing good lasts forever and the higher the highs the lower the lows.....sometimes people like this are never satisfied with their lot in life so will never be completely happy/content......always looking for the next fix.

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Yes, that's what I've seen too. The most successful people I know in terms of advancing to high positions in their chosen careers are genuinely friendly and sociable people, but with a certain streak of single-minded determination. The job always comes first.

I agree with this, and the poster who recommended 48 laws of power. If you've never given this area much thought before, it is an eye opening read.

I'd also say nice guys often aren't as nice as they think they are. Sometimes it's that they lack vision, or the conviction of a vision - and are happy to go with the flow or grumble on the sidelines. Or they lack the social and intellectual skills to make the change they need to - either in themselves or others. It's sometimes too easy and safe to tell yourself - "I'm a nice guy and that's why these good things aren't happing to me", when really it's because you lack ability, courage or something else. Often there's a degree of naivety too - you want the world to be as you think it should be, rather than as it actually is. Who gave you the right to create the rules? Especially, when you aren't often willing to do anything about bringing them about? Where did those rules you follow come from? Likely children's books.

Will also say that many introverts will find it naturally more difficult due to often greater sensitivity to their environment and others. You'll find yourself repeating conversations from the previous day in your head during the small hours of the morning, while others will be sleeping like babes and wake up refreshed in the same situation. Often they don't naturally work well in groups, meeting or public speaking situations and those are all important in the workplace. The good news is that you can train yourself to overcome all of these as well as give yourself space to decompress later.

Finally, the use of the word "arsehole" itself is telling. Basically, it implies a lack of respect for others abilities in sometimes subtle areas which you likely have little understanding of. There are very few true "arseholes" - an alternative word for psychopath.

I type as a reforming "nice guy" btw - and the world is much richer although more complex and harder for it. I need plenty of time to recover from it in my hobbit hole though, and I chose my battles carefully.

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Yes, that's what I've seen too. The most successful people I know in terms of advancing to high positions in their chosen careers are genuinely friendly and sociable people, but with a certain streak of single-minded determination. The job always comes first.

....but they also have to be trustworthy,honest and genuinely interested in others interests aswell as their own, not just their own advancement hangers on and close-knit circle.

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So you behaved like an arsehole?

Not at all. I chose to retain my dignity and fight fire with fire - and got the mans grudging respect for my effort. If anyone felt like an arsehole that day it was likely all the sycophantic grovelling others (managers included!) who had allowed themselves to be walked over for so long!

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Until you have the desire to have 1m Buy to lets, and completely own the world, you will NEVER get anything Muahahahahahah! :wacko:

Just look at comments that follow the video - all the girls are chomping at the bit!

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If by "get further", you mean success in business / career.. Then I would say no.

Being good at stuff and knowing the value of what you can do makes you successful (IMHO).

Nice guys get taken advantage of if they are good at stuff but don't realise their own value in the wider market place (ie, don't get pay rises / promotions to reflect their contribution).

In my limited experience most people who have made it to relative positions of power are "nice guys".. But also smart, usually competitive and sometimes ruthless.

For every @rsehole who doesn't deserve a given position there is an equal and opposite @ss licker.

Mostly agree with that.

There is such a thing as "too nice" though, people who stay in a job for decades, are really important to the company, and respected, but never get much in the way of pay rises or promotion because everybody is well aware that they aren't going to go anywhere. That isn't me by the way, but I have seen loads of people like that.

Quite a few of them never finished their main qualifications partly because they were happy in the job they were in and part,y because they were overworked and weren't prepared to push some work back so they could go home and study of an evening. This of course means again that they can't move without a pay cut.

This, however, is the sort of person I would readily employ, whereas you can usually see a true a*hole from their CV, no more than two years anywhere because of the damage they do. They'll give a good interview and have a wholly plausible explanation for every departure (the company's fault or they were poached because they were just so good) but these CVs are unmistakable.

I know somebody just like this who is now on what is likely to be his last job in Devon and Cornwall in his sector because 75+ of the big employers now know how useless he is, and the more senior position he gets the worse he messes up. When he worked for a sister company I found him to be extremely insecure and eager to please (I was on a par rather than a junior, to whom apparently he was awful) probably because he knew he would rapidly get found it, and he was.

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Mostly agree with that.

There is such a thing as "too nice" though, people who stay in a job for decades, are really important to the company, and respected, but never get much in the way of pay rises or promotion because everybody is well aware that they aren't going to go anywhere. That isn't me by the way, but I have seen loads of people like that.

Quite a few of them never finished their main qualifications partly because they were happy in the job they were in and part,y because they were overworked and weren't prepared to push some work back so they could go home and study of an evening. This of course means again that they can't move without a pay cut.

This, however, is the sort of person I would readily employ, whereas you can usually see a true a*hole from their CV, no more than two years anywhere because of the damage they do. They'll give a good interview and have a wholly plausible explanation for every departure (the company's fault or they were poached because they were just so good) but these CVs are unmistakable.

I know somebody just like this who is now on what is likely to be his last job in Devon and Cornwall in his sector because 75+ of the big employers now know how useless he is, and the more senior position he gets the worse he messes up. When he worked for a sister company I found him to be extremely insecure and eager to please (I was on a par rather than a junior, to whom apparently he was awful) probably because he knew he would rapidly get found it, and he was.

I have worked with many different types and styles of people, mostly it doesn't take long to suss them out......many are very responsible but don't want further responsibility and others are very irresponsible and put on a what they think is a clever cover to gain more responsibility...... Others suck up to the decision makers hoping for an easy ride.

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I'm afraid I come from a long line of ar*eholes in this regard Frank, its something of a family tradition :)

Or to use the slightly nicer American vernacular:

As long as you're nice outside of work Paul :)

I know a lovely girl, met her through work and she has lost every short term job she has had since (when I worked with here she only lasted two or three months) by falling out with her manager. Every time it's their fault, they're a nightmare, I don't know how anybody can work with them etc. etc. She's also fallen out with job agencies, they're useless, they're a nightmare, I don't know how anybody can deal with them etc. etc.

After you've seen this happen several times on the trot you come to expect it and wonder whether she can see what the common factor is here.

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I've got the stereo-typical "nice guy" personality, which at first glance might seem like a good thing.

However, on deeper analysis and consideration of all that I've experienced over the last 30 years, I'm coming more and more round to thinking that it is a significant handicap and general disadantage in life. The arsehole type people appear to get further, both in terms of wealth and of love.

'Further' is a bit subjective I think, but I wonder whether you're really saying 'more', as in: do arseholes get more wealth and love? And I don't think more is necessarily better, or 'further' to use your word.

I could probably get more money if I was more 'go getting' and generally motivated (or maybe the more arsehole-sounding 'pushy'), but then I'd probably spend more of my life doing a bunch of stuff that other people want me to do in order to get it. So, 'more' but not really 'further'.

Or, if I cared less about long-standing relationships and other people's feelings, and was more impervious to any rejections I might get (and maybe by some people's standard be more of an arsehole), I could probably have had more sex, more partners and (on the average, one assumes, just by weight of numbers) had 'a bit of a looker' a few times, at least in passing. Again, though, I don't know that this is 'further'.

If nice people glance over at an arsehole's life from time to time and see just the 'fruit' of their general approach to the world, they may say, all else being equal, I'd like to have their money, girl/boyfriend, car... etc., and they may think there's something in being an arsehole, but isn't that just the usual 'grass is greener' stuff? Also, I wonder if the nice people are also noticing those arseholes who have nothing at any given moment? I'd be surprised if there aren't lots of them too.

But anyway, given that 'more' isn't necessarily a sign that everything is 'better' over all, a question I'd like to ask instead of the 'get further' one is:

Are arseholes on the average happier with their lives than nice people?

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