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Junk All Diesel Cars: They're A Health Hazard, So Scrap Them And Pay Owners £2,000, Boris Tells Mps


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The consumers were stupid as well - yes the your new diesel has a £30 tax disk, but it comes with a £1500 turbo that you'll need to replace fairly frequently. And for an urban dweller (low mileage, short journeys) the cost of diesel maintenance far outweighs the fuel savings.

I'm one of those stupid consumers. :wacko: I have had quite a few high repair costs with my Nissan 2.2 dCi. Had I bought a petrol engined equivalent I reckon I would have been better off despite the poorer mpg and lower VED (nowhere near £30 a year mind).

Should have bought that Corolla 1.6 VVTi instead! :blink:

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Its is head that needs taking off, just shows how socialist the Tory party are when they use taxpayers money for another pointless pet project.

They really do not want to solve the deficit crisis, let alone the debt.

Quite right too. Would have expected it from Red Ken but not Boris.

The current Conservative band of reprobates need to think about the name of their party. Clue is in the name: Conservative party. Same goes for Osborne and his 'Help To Buy' scheme (or 'Help to Mortgage' as I prefer to call it).

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.................. Same goes for Osborne and his 'Help To Buy' scheme (or 'Help to Mortgage' as I prefer to call it).

....help to create housing boom ..to make us ''feel good'...hah ..hah..we don't fall that trick any more.....except for the VIs and the feckless 'buyers' at any price... :rolleyes:

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Wat :huh:

Commercial was the first to get common rail direct injection and they all seem to use the much better AdBlue system, and run at 55mph rather than 80mph, to be the first to sit in the next lot of traffic.

Adblue is very effective and very reliable which is why it is preferred by commercial operators, who don't mind the need to maintain a 2nd consumable fluid.

Most EU diesel cars use more complex NOx reduction systems instead, usually a combination of exhaust gas recirculation and a reduction catalyst (or combined DPF/reduction catalyst). These are disappointing unreliable, as the precision EGR control valve can get sooted up, and will jam, especially if you do a lot of urban driving. I lucked out and got a petrol car, but if you go to the relevant owners' club forum, pretty much everyone with a diesel ends up with the EGR valve jamming up and screwing up the engine - so much so, that the forum FAQ contains a video of how to disable the EGR system.

Interestingly, as the Yanks have much stricter NOx limits, an increasingly large number of diesel cars (particularly VAG) now use adblue - and if you run out, the regulations require that the car be unusuable, so you can get stranded if you run out of adblue.

The other problem with EGR techniques, is that they tend to increase particulate emissions, so tend to be harder on DPFs, especially as EGR also reduces combustion temperature which is needed to start a DPF cleaning cycle.

It may be that in the next few years we start to see adblue in cars in the EU; it would mean consumers have to get used to it, but it is a better system.

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We have a 1.6 TDI engine in our 2008 car with 45k on it and have had the Turbo go on it. Once it goes then you are very lucky if the sludge and any metal doesn't get into the rest of the engine and we went through 3 replacements before we got one that has so far lasted a year. This same engine and flawed turbo design is on cars made by Bmw, Citroen, Ford, Mazda, Peugeot, VW amongst others so I would highly recommend anyone to Google "Car Make + model turbo problems" to see if yours is one of those known in the industry to be dodgy. Oh and that's separate to the DPF issues that most modern Diesel owners will also face. If I was buying again I would buy petrol.

Edited by GeordieAndy
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Adblue is very effective and very reliable which is why it is preferred by commercial operators, who don't mind the need to maintain a 2nd consumable fluid.

Most EU diesel cars use more complex NOx reduction systems instead, usually a combination of exhaust gas recirculation and a reduction catalyst (or combined DPF/reduction catalyst). These are disappointing unreliable, as the precision EGR control valve can get sooted up, and will jam, especially if you do a lot of urban driving. I lucked out and got a petrol car, but if you go to the relevant owners' club forum, pretty much everyone with a diesel ends up with the EGR valve jamming up and screwing up the engine - so much so, that the forum FAQ contains a video of how to disable the EGR system.

Interestingly, as the Yanks have much stricter NOx limits, an increasingly large number of diesel cars (particularly VAG) now use adblue - and if you run out, the regulations require that the car be unusuable, so you can get stranded if you run out of adblue.

The other problem with EGR techniques, is that they tend to increase particulate emissions, so tend to be harder on DPFs, especially as EGR also reduces combustion temperature which is needed to start a DPF cleaning cycle.

It may be that in the next few years we start to see adblue in cars in the EU; it would mean consumers have to get used to it, but it is a better system.

do you think AdBlue will replace or supplement the EGR? (Which is only for NOx)

I ripped the EGR and Cat. out of my Berlingo work van. It's only a 1.9 normally aspirated so it needs every last torque and pony it can muster :lol: much more responsive (If not faster as such) and more economical.

I'd be up for a system that didn't feed the engine its own waste, though.

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We have a 1.6 TDI engine in our 2008 car with 45k on it and have had the Turbo go on it. Once it goes then you are very lucky if the sludge and any metal doesn't get into the rest of the engine and we went through 3 replacements before we got one that has so far lasted a year. This same engine and flawed turbo design is on cars made by Bmw, Citroen, Ford, Mazda, Peugeot, VW amongst others so I would highly recommend anyone to Google "Car Make + model turbo problems" to see if yours is one of those known in the industry to be dodgy. Oh and that's separate to the DPF issues that most modern Diesel owners will also face. If I was buying again I would buy petrol.

The only turbo problem I have is not having one on hills. :lol: But then that's why I got it. Basic, reliable. got a motorbike for fun. I don't want to set speed records for fastest trip to the wholesaler or building site.

Edited by chronyx
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We have a 1.6 TDI engine in our 2008 car with 45k on it and have had the Turbo go on it. Once it goes then you are very lucky if the sludge and any metal doesn't get into the rest of the engine and we went through 3 replacements before we got one that has so far lasted a year. This same engine and flawed turbo design is on cars made by Bmw, Citroen, Ford, Mazda, Peugeot, VW amongst others so I would highly recommend anyone to Google "Car Make + model turbo problems" to see if yours is one of those known in the industry to be dodgy. Oh and that's separate to the DPF issues that most modern Diesel owners will also face. If I was buying again I would buy petrol.

Yep the DPF issue is a scandal. Thank goodness i did some research first and bought a Mondeo Petrol and not a diesel as i am a low mileage mostly urban driver.

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do you think AdBlue will replace or supplement the EGR? (Which is only for NOx)

I suspect that in passenger cars, it will end up supplementing the EGR (unless a manufacturer has a big problem with EGR valves failing).

It's not so much that adblue requires and EGR, but that you can reduce adblue consumption significantly with EGR, as there is less NOx for the adblue to clean up.

This seems to be the case in the US, although I don't know for sure; but given that the cars there seem to need only occasional top-ups with adblue (which is sold by the "quart" in bottles), whereas commericals here seem to use about 1 litre of adblue for every 6-8 litres of fuel.

Edited by ChumpusRex
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The diesel car is finished now, in 10 years they will be pretty rare to see new ones. With the every tightning euro regulations the diesel is on borrowed time. The new euro 6 regs will kill the diesel as they now need ANOTHER expensive system which uses a chemical called adblu. The new passat has it and the system is flawed on so many levels on a passenger car it's a total joke.

All big manufacturers are rushing to get out the new breed of petrol engines. Ford predict the diesel will be extinct in the near future. They are working in extending the new 3 cylinder petrol into their range.

My 335d xdrive is euro 6 and doesn't have that adblue rubbish. Build Feb 2014. I have always had petrols - this year bought a 335d x drive and its a serious weapon. Still sounds like a tractor when starting but the torque is insane and so addictive. I have had it 6 months and done 3k miles and I don't regret it. Still petrol probably next :D

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Junk all politicians, we'd all be so much better of.

given their second-to-none record of recycling old rubbish(with the house of commons),I'm surprised they hadn't thought of it :lol::lol:

don't think they're worth all that much though.

most are worn nout and have been doing the rounds for 20 or 30 years.

Edited by oracle
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Poor quality fuel perhaps in this case, or excessive urban driving (it was in a city). But whatever the reasons, it is true to say that it is not uncommon to see smoke pouring out of surprisingly new (ie DPF era) diesel cars under load.

I think perhaps the operating tolerances for having all the emissions and fuelling systems working well are too tight for the average motorist to reasonably maintain. I wouldn't agree that people were duped into buying these things, a few minutes on Google would reveal that the claimed fuel efficiency was bogus and the reliability questionable, not to mention the health nasties, but people believed the salesman instead. Never a good idea to accept favourable views of something from people who are trying to sell you £10k+ of the same something.

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The diesel car is finished now, in 10 years they will be pretty rare to see new ones. With the every tightning euro regulations the diesel is on borrowed time. The new euro 6 regs will kill the diesel as they now need ANOTHER expensive system which uses a chemical called adblu. The new passat has it and the system is flawed on so many levels on a passenger car it's a total joke.

All big manufacturers are rushing to get out the new breed of petrol engines. Ford predict the diesel will be extinct in the near future. They are working in extending the new 3 cylinder petrol into their range.

Aye.

In modern diesels the most expensive single system is the exhaust. DPFs are a bugger to make and (I believe) still mae pretty much by hand.

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Yep the DPF issue is a scandal. Thank goodness i did some research first and bought a Mondeo Petrol and not a diesel as i am a low mileage mostly urban driver.

I really like Mondeos. I drive a lot of hire cars and to my mind the Mondeo is pretty much the best in class (much better than either the Passatt or Insignia). I went to a couple of local dealers with a view to buying one and when I said I wanted a petrol because the diesel technology was unreliable they looked at me like I was some kind of idiot. I'm guessing they get fed the marketing stuff by the manufacturers and just pass it on.

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My 335d xdrive is euro 6 and doesn't have that adblue rubbish. Build Feb 2014. I have always had petrols - this year bought a 335d x drive and its a serious weapon. Still sounds like a tractor when starting but the torque is insane and so addictive. I have had it 6 months and done 3k miles and I don't regret it. Still petrol probably next :D

Adblue isn't rubbish, it's inredibly effective at what it does (reducing agent for NOx). Petrol systems are just so much simpler though. I think we're way past diminishing returns with diesel exhaust technology. The tide will turn with manufacturers and the future will be petrol/electric.

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I really like Mondeos. I drive a lot of hire cars and to my mind the Mondeo is pretty much the best in class (much better than either the Passatt or Insignia). I went to a couple of local dealers with a view to buying one and when I said I wanted a petrol because the diesel technology was unreliable they looked at me like I was some kind of idiot. I'm guessing they get fed the marketing stuff by the manufacturers and just pass it on.

I always used to buy Toyota cars but as my mechanic said, they had their heyday in the 90s and early 2000s are not above the competition anymore for reliability.If i did high mileage i would have bought a diesel. Pity i could not afford the Mondeo Ecoboost petrol engines as they were too new for me to afford at the time. Even the 1.6 has more power, more torque and better economy than my 2.0 Duratec. Downside of the Mondeo from my experience is lack of visibility,especially when reversing, hard to park without parking sensors and crap Air conditioning units which can fail or are noisy. It's great to drive though. With Petrol engines, you put torque at the wheels by revving the engine, which seems more natural to me than low rev high torque from diesels.

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Smoke and diesels - EGR, MAF sensor, turbo issues,Pipe blocks (oil and crud), blocked/partially blocked Air filter, blocked/faulty injectors, uncoiled hoses, worn hose joints causing air leaks, block or gummed up cat/exhaust, basically anything that can change the air flow or measurement of the air or fuel in the turbo system. Luckily battery tech is coming on pretty quickly, not a fan of hybrids, straight electric is way to go.

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Smoke and diesels - EGR, MAF sensor, turbo issues,Pipe blocks (oil and crud), blocked/partially blocked Air filter, blocked/faulty injectors, uncoiled hoses, worn hose joints causing air leaks, block or gummed up cat/exhaust, basically anything that can change the air flow or measurement of the air or fuel in the turbo system. Luckily battery tech is coming on pretty quickly, not a fan of hybrids, straight electric is way to go.

Almost all these issues can apply equally to petrol engines.

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A lot of people who do low mileage or mostly urban drivers were duped in buying diesels when they would have been better of buying petrol due to the expense of having a new DPF as low mileage town driving screws them up. Not doing enough miles to outweigh the cost of the more expensive diesels obviously too.

Of course if your are a low mileage urban diesel driver, you can always give the car a good run on a motorway or A road every coupe of weeks but that will chucking away the fuel you may saved in the previous 2 weeks.

I would agree that this seems to be the main significant issue with some DPF equipped cars. However, in general this seems most common with the first generation of DPF equipped cars when they were new technology. Most manufacturers have now improved their DPF systems so even urban drivers should not expect too much trouble from them. Of course there will always be problems with some, but a lot will depend on drivers too. You see some drivers pull away from cold in towns and drive with a heavy right foot between traffic lights and queuing traffic. This kind of driving is bad for all engines, but especially with diesels, as they tend to produce excess soot on hard acceleration. Also when cold diesels have quite a bit of slack round piston rings etc, as they need to be hot to run best. If an engine does not get a chance to get hot on a short run and is driven to produce lots of soot which has to be arrested by the DPF it will eventually block. DPFs need to burn off soot once they contain a certain amount and this is generally done by the engine management system adjusting the fuel air/mix to increase exhaust gas temperatures to about 600 degrees C. This can generally only be achieved when doing a longer journey. However, a sensible driver taking a bit of care will likely not have many problems as they will not produce anywhere near as much soot to be trapped and the DPF will only very occasionally need to be cleared.

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Poor quality fuel perhaps in this case, or excessive urban driving (it was in a city). But whatever the reasons, it is true to say that it is not uncommon to see smoke pouring out of surprisingly new (ie DPF era) diesel cars under load.

I think perhaps the operating tolerances for having all the emissions and fuelling systems working well are too tight for the average motorist to reasonably maintain. I wouldn't agree that people were duped into buying these things, a few minutes on Google would reveal that the claimed fuel efficiency was bogus and the reliability questionable, not to mention the health nasties, but people believed the salesman instead. Never a good idea to accept favourable views of something from people who are trying to sell you £10k+ of the same something.

You may also just be seeing cars which happened to be late examples of a models which had been in production for quite a while. As far as I know, car manufacturers only need to comply with the regs in place when a model is first designed. They can then produce that until they design a new one, or make significant changes like fitting a newly designed engine. I drive an Audi diesel, but I know that my car had DPFs as standard several years before some others in the range, as mine was a model with a new engine, wheres the same car with an older engine design was still produced for several more years without a DPF being fitted.

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All I know is that whenever driving behind a diesel car in town they invariably leave behind a black cloud of exhaust fumes, that cant be a good thing.

what you mean is you notice the car in front is a diesel when black smoke comes out.

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