51 Yes 49 No - Rumoured Yougov Poll Tomorrow

[thecrashingisles]

Vote No for the sake of the corgis.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2754984/You-end-flag-like-warns-Lord-West-Union-Jack-dumped-Britain-s-national-flag-Scotland-votes-separate.html

[stormymonday_2011]

Vote No for the sake of the corgis.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2754984/You-end-flag-like-warns-Lord-West-Union-Jack-dumped-Britain-s-national-flag-Scotland-votes-separate.html

Horrid little Royal ankle biters

I don't like the dogs much either

[Guest TheBlueCat]

Just for the avoidance of doubt, let me point out that they're most emphatically on the "no" side.

You mean the noooaaaaaaah side, surely?

[geezer466]

That seems entirely reasonable. In a similar way, the outcome of a general election could have a major impact on things like research funding, tuition fees, pensions, and so on; but if the management of a university were to hint even slightly to its staff and students that they might want to vote in a certain way, there would be a major outcry, and rightly so.

Indeed but (assuming the fact is true) that the free Uni education is funded largely from the rUK block grant should be of interest to many.

We have Salmond making all sorts of spending promises off the back of oil revenues yet the (top) people who work in this game (more than one) say he is over estimating the revenues and that his spending plans don't add up... Yes either way there are significant revenues to be had but they have to be managed not pi$$ed up the wall in the first 10 years of office. Once those revenues are gone they are gone.

How are the people of Scotland going to feel if 2 years down the line free University education starts to be phased out as unaffordable. Who are they going to blame?

And this is before the tens (maybe hundreds) of Billions Salmond has to accrue in the reserves to back whatever currency he is planning to play.

All his promises are based on pretty much on him getting exactly what he wants from the divorce negotiations. We already know that is not going to happen...

And he has already hinted that he is ready to play his strongest card and that way lies the same sort of madness that came out of Sillars mouth the other day...

[The Ayatollah Buggeri]

That seems entirely reasonable. In a similar way, the outcome of a general election could have a major impact on things like research funding, tuition fees, pensions, and so on; but if the management of a university were to hint even slightly to its staff and students that they might want to vote in a certain way, there would be a major outcry, and rightly so.

An interesting and valid point, given that since the mid-1990s, the proportion of universities' income that derives from the taxpayer has been steadily decreasing, so much so that most UK higher education institutions can no longer be described as public sector organizations with any credibility. Not-for-profit organizations (in the sense that they don't pay dividends to shareholders) yes; public sector ones not really.

Therefore, if the management of a university wished to offer advice on voting to its staff and students, then IMO that's no better or worse than the CEO of a large company doing so to its employees. Those staff and students of course can and probably will reject that advice, though. The real problem is with academics focusing their teaching and research activity on promoting their (almost always leftist) agenda. Students are not at liberty to walk out of their course as easily or as consequence-free as they are to reject their V-C's advice to vote for one lot or the other.

[Baxter Basics MP]

David Lloyd George. He won the First World War. Instituted large scale reform covering unemployment benefit and pensions. My great grandfather knew him.

When you look at the meagre achievements of governments of the last 30-40 years, he stands as a giant:

Well, if you care to look at what prompted my response it was in reply to Masked Tulip basically labelling me as a Nazi, for example, 'whose next? Jews, Homosexuals' etc. And all because I'd prefer England to go it alone? So I'm a Nazi because I'm a Englishman who claims I'm also a half-scot. OK he/she didn't call me a Nazi, but that is certainly what was implied in that post. So instead of debating his/her ******, I decided to point out that the best Wales has done is Neil Kinnock...it was more of a joke.

But On the subject of David Lloyd George, yes he may have 'won the war' (when in fact it was most likely the yanks who contributed to that) but Welshman Mr George was also quite a fan of Appeasement and of Adolf Hitler. I'm sure he knew about the Nazis persecution of the Jews, it was no secret. He even went so far as to meet Hitler in person who he called "the greatest living German". I'm sure you already know all of this.

He even thought we had no chance during the war, was waiting until "Winston is bust" and he wanted a negotiated peace with the Germans after the Battle of Britain.

Yes, he double backed on himself and helped with the fall of Chamberlain (who he hated) but his name is forever tainted with being a fan of Hitler and someone who was openly against the 2nd war with Germany.

So not quite the giant some people say he was.

[Baxter Basics MP]

I think you'll find that the major landowners exploiting the earth in England, Wales, Ireland and Scotland were all Normans.

Malcolm of Scotland invited the Normans in to establish the new fangled efficient economic system of feudalism (aka slavery). Many of these Normans actually became clan leaders.

So I would forget the idea that it is 'English exploiting Celts' or 'Welsh exploiting English' etc. You need to look at it more intelligently to realise why the upper landowning classes had (and have) no care for ordinary people.

Sounds good. So Masked Tulip would need to seek reparations from Normandy. Looks like Scotland and England are off the hook.

[Dorkins]

From Twitter:

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam 11h

Age breakdown panelbase/ @thesundaytimes poll: 16:34 57% Y: 43% N, 35-54 55% Y: 45% N, 55+ 38%Y: 62%N ...over 55s just save Union (corr)

The UK's generational divide is huge now, both economically and culturally. It seems likely that the UK will start to change dramatically when the current 55+ cohort no longer have the numbers to outvote everybody else.

[iamdamosuzuki]

From Twitter:

The UK's generational divide is huge now, both economically and culturally. It seems likely that the UK will start to change dramatically when the current 55+ cohort no longer have the numbers to outvote everybody else.

The pensioned Blair Generation. To hell with the young and their ipods. I WORKED BLOODY HARD FOR THIS HOUSE.

[geezer466]

I always had Lloyd George down as one of the Donkeys who led the Lions of WW1. Although not there at the start he was at the helm for two years of the war.

To his credit and as head negotiator for the British he wanted a 'watered down version' of the Versailles treaty which he never got. History showed us later that that treaty had a direct influence on the rise of Hitler and the subsequent WW2. Hindsight though of course is a wonderful thing.

When it comes down to reforming Prime Ministers then Lloyd George stands in the shadow of Clem Atlee.

[AThirdWay]

Err...you're still in the UK.

Fair point, so far...

[AThirdWay]

Survation telephone poll – YES 46%, NO 54%

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/8980

YES 54%, NO 46%

http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2014/09/icm-put-yes-ahead-perhaps/

Doesn't matter a jot now, it's down to the wire.

[AThirdWay]

I agree. The whole thing has been a massive contradiction:

• 800,000 Scots in England, Wales and NI not allowed to vote. Electorate agreed in the Edinburgh Agreement, no point crying over spilt milk
• English, EU Nationals and 'other' nationals in Scotland allowed to vote - defeats the object of Scots having a say in Scotland's affairs. Why? If you are investing your time and effort in Scotland, you get a vote. Seems fair to me?
• Only a 50% turnout in the last Scottish Election meaning 'the majority of Scots' did not opt for this referendum. The Scots elected the SNP, and that's what counts in our democracy.
• Salmond's support of the EU which means this referendum is merely a transfer of power from Westminister to Brussels (when in reality Brussels has always been in charge). Depends on your opinion of the EU. Removing the most expensive layer of bureaucracy is a good thing surely?

Of course, the Braveheart brigade will shat on the above, but they know deep down that the whole thing is a farce. Unionist bingo... 'Braveheart', HOUSE!

[AThirdWay]

I'm not surprised no-one could understand if they were written in French.

That's the level of education in university staff for ya

[AThirdWay]

Just for the avoidance of doubt, let me point out that they're most emphatically on the "no" side.

Independence referendum: Senior figures in the Orange Order describe Scottish nationalism as 'a divisive and evil enemy' : http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/independence-referendum-senior-figures-orange-4251804

Anti-Catholic sentiment, now that's something that is a uniting force......

[Baxter Basics MP]

I agree. The whole thing has been a massive contradiction:

• 800,000 Scots in England, Wales and NI not allowed to vote. Electorate agreed in the Edinburgh Agreement, no point crying over spilt milk
• English, EU Nationals and 'other' nationals in Scotland allowed to vote - defeats the object of Scots having a say in Scotland's affairs. Why? If you are investing your time and effort in Scotland, you get a vote. Seems fair to me?
• Only a 50% turnout in the last Scottish Election meaning 'the majority of Scots' did not opt for this referendum. The Scots elected the SNP, and that's what counts in our democracy.
• Salmond's support of the EU which means this referendum is merely a transfer of power from Westminister to Brussels (when in reality Brussels has always been in charge). Depends on your opinion of the EU. Removing the most expensive layer of bureaucracy is a good thing surely?

Of course, the Braveheart brigade will shat on the above, but they know deep down that the whole thing is a farce. Unionist bingo... 'Braveheart', HOUSE!

Fair points.

[geezer466]

YES 54%, NO 46%

http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2014/09/icm-put-yes-ahead-perhaps/

Doesn't matter a jot now, it's down to the wire.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/12/scottish-referendum-too-close-to-call-says-icm-poll

Most unusually, young people are almost as engaged as their elders, with 82% of 16- to 24-year-olds and 87% of 25-34s insisting that they are 10 out of 10 sure that they will cast a vote; many will have already done so through postal voting.

The 25-34s in particular are heavily inclined to back independence – leaning yes, by 57% to 43%. At the other end of the age range, respondents aged 65+ are staunch unionists, being inclined to vote no by 61% to 39%, a contrast that – Martin Boon, director of ICM explains – makes “the generational divide a crucial dividing line in Scottish politics right now: each campaign’s success in motivating the particular cohorts that favour them looks crucial to the outcome”.

My bold.

If it is a close no next week then it is inconceivable that the same result can be achieved at the next referendum which is already being predicted to take place in 18 years. Salmond is on record this morning as saying another referendum may take place in a generation. A generation in these scheme of things is thought to be 18 years.

Natural demographics will ensure the yes portion of the vote gathers the majority as the elders die off.

So in essence 'it is only really a matter of time' either way....

[AThirdWay]

Indeed but (assuming the fact is true) that the free Uni education is funded largely from the rUK block grant should be of interest to many.

We have Salmond making all sorts of spending promises off the back of oil revenues yet the (top) people who work in this game (more than one) say he is over estimating the revenues and that his spending plans don't add up... Yes either way there are significant revenues to be had but they have to be managed not pi$$ed up the wall in the first 10 years of office. Once those revenues are gone they are gone. Agreed, but as the previous 30 years revenues have been pi$$ed up the wall, killing people to a great extent, is it not reasonable to decide to try something else? If we went down the route of our own currency, for the first few years, borrowing will be very restricted. We will have no choice but to balance the books.

How are the people of Scotland going to feel if 2 years down the line free University education starts to be phased out as unaffordable. Who are they going to blame? Who did they blame in the rUK?

And this is before the tens (maybe hundreds) of Billions Salmond has to accrue in the reserves to back whatever currency he is planning to play. Not true. The banks are moving that particular burden onto the rUK. God help 'em!

All his promises are based on pretty much on him getting exactly what he wants from the divorce negotiations. We already know that is not going to happen... You know nothing of the sort.

And he has already hinted that he is ready to play his strongest card and that way lies the same sort of madness that came out of Sillars mouth the other day... I fully expect him to play his hand in the best way to benefit Scotland, don't you?

[AThirdWay]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/12/scottish-referendum-too-close-to-call-says-icm-poll

My bold.

If it is a close no next week then it is inconceivable that the same result can be achieved at the next referendum which is already being predicted to take place in 18 years. Salmond is on record this morning as saying another referendum may take place in a generation. A generation in these scheme of things is thought to be 18 years.

Natural demographics will ensure the yes portion of the vote gathers the majority as the elders die off.

So in essence 'it is only really a matter of time' either way....

I believe I outlined that exact sentiment very early in this thread.

Independence is inevitable, it's just a matter of limiting the damage until it happens. I would point out that voting intentions change with age usually. The older I get, the more I lean to the right (I know, I know, more to lose!). I don't think that change of opinion is enough to negate my first statement however.

Edit: It's also been mentioned previously that there is a lot of engagement of those who would normally not bother to vote. This element would not, I expect, take part in such polls.

Edited September 14, 2014 by AThirdWay

[Greg Bowman]

Bute was but one of many from outside Wales. Many English landowners owned mines in Wales as well and prospoered enormously from them. The Welsh lived in poverty whilst the money went across the border.

All very well my friend but it is long forgotten already that the Lithuanians started the break up of the Soviet Union by breaking away and seizing their moment at immense risk.

The Welsh have had ample opportunity over three hundred years but has has all been a teensy weensy bit comfortable for the Cardiff and South Wales mafia sitting there nicely at the end of the M4 to London hasn't it ? You appear to not give a s**** about your brothers and sisters in the valleys so it's a bit rich to look outside your country for blame

Edited September 14, 2014 by Greg Bowman

[billybong]

http://

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29169114

Scottish independence: Price warning letter due as business row intensifies

They've promised a letter and there have been a lot of MSM snippets quoting the so called letter.

There were reports that they might even sign the letter - but as usual anything they promise is slow in forthcoming that's if it's ever published at all. Earlier on it was going to be in the next couple of days (over the weekend?) but now it's going to be "in the coming days".

They must have had second thoughts about it.

Why are we waiting.

Edited September 14, 2014 by billybong

[@contradevian]

Anti-Catholic sentiment, now that's something that is a uniting force......

Yup, only anti- English sentiment allowed

[Dorkins]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/12/scottish-referendum-too-close-to-call-says-icm-poll

My bold.

If it is a close no next week then it is inconceivable that the same result can be achieved at the next referendum which is already being predicted to take place in 18 years. Salmond is on record this morning as saying another referendum may take place in a generation. A generation in these scheme of things is thought to be 18 years.

Natural demographics will ensure the yes portion of the vote gathers the majority as the elders die off.

So in essence 'it is only really a matter of time' either way....

I think it will depend what happens in Westminster over the next 15-20 years. If it changes significantly and Westminster governments start to deliver policies that benefit the growing ranks of people being ignored at present then the thirst for independence might disappear. If not then I'm sure independence will be back on the agenda, and the No camp will find it much harder to win once Death has scythed his way through 15-20 years' worth of pre-Boomers and Boomers.

[AThirdWay]

Yup, only anti- English sentiment allowed

Would that be directed at me? I'd be devastated if you could provide a link to one of my posts that had any anti-English rhetoric in it, take your best shot.

There are idiots on both sides, have a read of the comments this idiot attracts

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/alancochrane/

[Scunnered]

Would that be directed at me? I'd be devastated if you could provide a link to one of my posts that had any anti-English rhetoric in it, take your best shot.

There are idiots on both sides, have a read of the comments this idiot attracts

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/alancochrane/

Alan Cochrane really seems to have a big grudge about something. What is his problem?