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tpsman

Brain Drain

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I can't seem to find any threads about this yet, but I wanted to pose a question:

Given the increasing house prices, related cost of living, and decreasing quality of life, will we see a brain drain to other countries with a higher quality of life, and lower cost of living?

From a personal standpoint, while I'm hoping to buy a house in the next year or so, I am still considering the option of moving country. There are plenty of countries with a much better standard of living than the UK, and while I might have to forego living near my family and friends, the thought that I might not have to work myself silly til I die to pay for some *$£"(%) baby boomer's retirement plan easily offsets that problem. Surely there are many others my age and younger thinking the same?!

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I think we already are.

From a personal standpoint, while I'm hoping to buy a house in the next year or so

Why? Houses in the UK simply aren't worth the prices asked for. I have moved to the Middle East. One common complaint I've heard from fellow Brit's is that whilst working in the UK you don't get to see any of your wages, once you've paid rent, tax, car insurance, petrol etc there is nothing left. I worked in the UK for one year to get my qualification. I bought a nice computer but apart from that I had nothing to show for a years work. Whats the point? I existed in the UK, I didn't live there. I live a lifestyle I couldn't dream of in the UK, and I am saving up a huge amount of money too. Here you actually get to keep your wages. The spending power is much higher too. Petrol here is less than a tenth of the UK price. Flights are cheaper. Even the McDonalds is about 30% cheaper. Every pound you earn is worth much more.

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It's good to know other young adults are seriously pissed off with the state of the UK and are considering moving abroad (if they haven't already done so). ****** working yourself into the ground to indulge a bunch of selfish nimby boomer *****. If people realised how bad the standard of living is in UK relative to many other countries the exodus would be even stronger imo.

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I think with the limited opps to move to US and Aus now any brain drain is going to be limited by Brits awful language skills.

I had two relatives move to Australia about 10 years ago, but I don't think they'd be able to do that now due to changes in rules.

Edited by bearwithasorehead

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It's specific to countries and industries. For instance, British people essentially run the Middle East's private school system. It's a very rare example of a service industry which Britain exports overseas.

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It's good to know other young adults are seriously pissed off with the state of the UK and are considering moving abroad (if they haven't already done so). ****** working yourself into the ground to indulge a bunch of selfish nimby boomer *****. If people realised how bad the standard of living is in UK relative to many other countries the exodus would be even stronger imo.

I think the whole high house price issue is part of a wider problem with intentional inflation and corruption in the British establishment. Just sit and think for a while about how an MP can employ his wife and kids as "researchers and assistants" with huge salaries all paid for by expenses. Why is that even allowed?

How can "towel folder Osborne" possibly justify help to buy as helping people buy a house. By helping person A they are hindering person B. These people have had the finest education money can buy, they must understand this.

Get out whilst you still can.

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IMHO a move abroad should be primarily motivated by career opportunities, especially if you are at a relatively early stage in your career. Valuable, transferable skills are what you need, not cheap McDonalds. Higher standards of living should be an added bonus, not a primary target, especially as living standards can evaporate quickly, especially if you skills are no longer required.

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A brain drain assumes there isn't a long queue of people waiting to do the emigrant's job.

Yep we are really going to miss a top banker, a diversity officer with the local council, an MP, a fireman...well just about every job you can think of.

A brain drain assumes no replacement..there is 99.9% of the time.

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A brain drain assumes there isn't a long queue of people waiting to do the emigrant's job.

Yep we are really going to miss a top banker, a diversity officer with the local council, an MP, a fireman...well just about every job you can think of.

A brain drain assumes no replacement..there is 99.9% of the time.

The term Brain Drain refers to people who can't simply be replaced. Though it does tend to get abused.

The real brain drain is of people like this.

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IMHO a move abroad should be primarily motivated by career opportunities, especially if you are at a relatively early stage in your career. Valuable, transferable skills are what you need, not cheap McDonalds. Higher standards of living should be an added bonus, not a primary target, especially as living standards can evaporate quickly, especially if you skills are no longer required.

Good post, thanks. Are you speaking from experience?

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The term Brain Drain refers to people who can't simply be replaced. Though it does tend to get abused.

The real brain drain is of people like this.

Of course, everybody thinks they are indispensable..... nearly everyone is dispensable. Gordon Brown and Fred Goodwin were indepensable well educated intellectuals until they destroyed the UK economy. Meanwhile one O level John Major was definitelty dispensable in 97, despite leaving the dream legacy.

Edited by crashmonitor

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Uncle_Kenny, how is your lifestyle different?

Firstly I am well housed, in a place that I couldn't possibly afford in the UK. I drive a much bigger car than I could afford to run in the UK too. I can save a large sum of money every month too.

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Firstly I am well housed, in a place that I couldn't possibly afford in the UK. I drive a much bigger car than I could afford to run in the UK too. I can save a large sum of money every month too.

So you want to spend the rest of your life out there, learn the language and become a citizen? Own property?

Perhaps elect a more western orientated government?

Edited by debtlessmanc

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...

Given the increasing house prices, related cost of living, and decreasing quality of life, will we see a brain drain to other countries with a higher quality of life, and lower cost of living?

...

It was a nice surprise this morning to find that with a fair wind I only have 2 years to run before my families emigration "option vests". This is the differences in housing that I'm seeing within my budget when I compare my current UK location and my two preferred options - Malta and Italy.

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So you want to spend the rest of your life out there, learn the language and become a citizen? Own property?

Perhaps elect a more western orientated government?

I can't become a citizen, and only local citizens can own property. It's not a country I would like to live in long term.

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. ...Gordon Brown and Fred Goodwin were indepensable well educated intellectuals until they destroyed the UK economy....

...ha..ha...intellectuals..?....you are joking...indispensable....?..even funnier.....both country and bank were well rid..they both fooled many ..education is no measure of a man's morality or fibre..... :rolleyes:

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Firstly I am well housed, in a place that I couldn't possibly afford in the UK. I drive a much bigger car than I could afford to run in the UK too. I can save a large sum of money every month too.

Is that because you earn a lot more? Not setting you up to have a pop or anything, genuinely interested.

It must depend on what field of work you're in as to whether you can easily up and move and get a higher salary/better lifestyle. I'm thinking in engineering, academia, etc, etc.

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Please name some of the "plenty of countries with a much better standard of living than the UK".

Uncle_Kenny, how is your lifestyle different?

World purchasing power index map, Darker green is better:

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/gmaps.jsp?indexToShow=getPurchasingPowerInclRentIndex

Depends on your specific skills however. USA, Germany, Australia and Switzerland look fairly good.

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World purchasing power index map, Darker green is better:

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/gmaps.jsp?indexToShow=getPurchasingPowerInclRentIndex

Depends on your specific skills however. USA, Germany, Australia and Switzerland look fairly good.

A slight diversion but people I come into contact with always think of Switzerland as low tax. I recently explored an opportunity in that part of the world and was surprised that it was anything but. It really depends on which Canton you move to. Move to (Swiss) German speaking Zug and you have low tax but try some of the French speaking regions on for size and the tax is surprisingly high. Onto that you can add some of the most eye wateringly high house prices I have ever come across.

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Controversial to say, but actually the jobs we struggle most to fill are those at the bottom....picking vegetables around Boston comes to mind and it involves the importation of Eastern European Labour. However indispensable those with skills think they are there is an international market and if anything (thinking the NHS in particular) we are quite good at draining the third world.

In the modern capitalist world a major blow to an economy can be flight of capital...a retiree moving with the million he has aquired from the UK and then chooses to spend abroad is a particular blow to a modern economy. They have harvested and drained the soil but not replenished it by putting the stash back in. Say the public sector worker that retires to the Carribean. Their brain may not be required but their capital certainly is, especially as we have got to keep on bloody paying them anyway.

Edited by crashmonitor

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Is that because you earn a lot more? Not setting you up to have a pop or anything, genuinely interested.

It must depend on what field of work you're in as to whether you can easily up and move and get a higher salary/better lifestyle. I'm thinking in engineering, academia, etc, etc.

I'm not actually sure if I'm paid more or not, but my net pay at the end of the month is much higher than I had in the UK. My employeer also provides housing so I should also add that back into the wage to get a fair comparison. I live in a country with zero taxation of any kind. Government spending (which is lavish, although I only benefit from it indirectly) is funded through oil revenues.

I am planning on switching careers to a completely different industry at the end of my current contract in a years time. Of course, this depends on me finding something suitable.

I have no family in the UK so I am free to move around the world in search of better opportunities. I have kind of "fallen through the cracks" in the UK. Young man who works hard and takes responsibility, saves his money etc. (need I go any further? you know what I am talking about right?) Back in 2008 when Lehman's collapsed I thought I was quids in and that middle class, home counties surburban paradise was just around the corner for me. How wrong I was.

I consider myself a citizen of the world. I try to live with as little government inteference as I possibly can. I work cash in hand where possible, live in tax havens and try to spend only cash. I have never ever been in debt my entire life. I hope to stay that way.

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...

In the modern capitalist world a major blow to an economy can be flight of capital...a retiree moving with the million he has aquired from the UK and then chooses to spend abroad is a particular blow to a modern economy. They have harvested and drained the soil but not replenished it by putting the stash back in. Say the public sector worker that retires to the Carribean.

I must say after the way the politicians and their policies have treated me I won't be losing to much sleep over it. It's a real shame as I used to love this country and didn't mind making a contribution for the betterment of the country as a whole. Now they're just taking the p**s and some other countries are offering my family and I a much better opportunity.

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I think we already are.

Why? Houses in the UK simply aren't worth the prices asked for. I have moved to the Middle East. One common complaint I've heard from fellow Brit's is that whilst working in the UK you don't get to see any of your wages, once you've paid rent, tax, car insurance, petrol etc there is nothing left. I worked in the UK for one year to get my qualification. I bought a nice computer but apart from that I had nothing to show for a years work. Whats the point? I existed in the UK, I didn't live there. I live a lifestyle I couldn't dream of in the UK, and I am saving up a huge amount of money too. Here you actually get to keep your wages. The spending power is much higher too. Petrol here is less than a tenth of the UK price. Flights are cheaper. Even the McDonalds is about 30% cheaper. Every pound you earn is worth much more.

The benefits are that I have my friends and family living here. When planning to have kids, that means I have free childcare should I want it.

I had been considering moving to the Middle East, but I would be worried about my girlfriend's safety, and indeed my own safety. I'm of Indian origin, and my experience of Dubai has not been great in the short time I visited.

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Controversial to say, but actually the jobs we struggle most to fill are those at the bottom....picking vegetables around Boston comes to mind and it involves the importation of Eastern European Labour. However indispensable those with skills think they are there is an international market and if anything (thinking the NHS in particular) we are quite good at draining the third world.

In the modern capitalist world a major blow to an economy can be flight of capital...a retiree moving with the million he has aquired from the UK and then chooses to spend abroad is a particular blow to a modern economy. They have harvested and drained the soil but not replenished it by putting the stash back in. Say the public sector worker that retires to the Carribean. Their brain may not be required but their capital certainly is, especially as we have got to keep on bloody paying them anyway.

The economy is becoming more globalised and competitve, and that includes labour. A highly skilled and educated work force will export the low skill jobs and just focus on the higher paying, high skilled ones. Many of the Chinese "sweat shops" are now being re-exported to Vietnam and Cambodia for example. No one is immune. Given our cradle to grave welfare state, it's not surprising that picking vegetables is a difficult position to fill. I wouldn't do it. Would you?

Your comment about people leaving the UK with their money is actually backwards. If I make a million pounds in the UK, I can only do so by providing a million pounds worth of goods and services. (making money does not "drain" the soil). By going abroad, or even burning the money I have provided goods and services to the UK without consuming any in return. Therefore, other British citizens have easier access (cheaper) to goods and services. Of course, this depends on the money being made in a free market economy, a public sector worker and/or rent seeker (is there a difference) would not provide a net benefit to the economy this way.

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