Sour Mash Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 It is looking more and more likely that a YES vote could be on the cards. Hence this thread. There's no way on earth that the vote will be yes. Aside from the total propaganda being deployed by the authorities to scare people into voting the 'correct' way, in the event that the Scots look like voting for independence you can expect an electoral 'fix'. The establishment in Westminster is NOT going to let a huge chunk of land and people out of its sphere of control, nevermind the resulting cost and chaos of relocating assets into what remains of the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelyhead Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Ok fair enough about the money comment. What would you like him to do to atone for having gone to a posh school? I can never quite get my head around what exactly the problem is. The problem is that most of the people in charge in Westminster are from Oxbridge and have led privileged lives. They have no idea what a normal persons life is like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Lorne Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Ok fair enough about the money comment. What would you like him to do to atone for having gone to a posh school? I can never quite get my head around what exactly the problem is. ..Scotland has many so called 'posh' schools...do the 'Naties' intend to close them.....?..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renting til I die Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Interesting tread but I think the OP was more about the effect that a yes vote would have on Sterling. Apart from some short term volatility, I think that a yes vote, in the mid term, would accurately be bullish for Sterling! Longer term I think Scotland could be better off going it alone but that would be a lot of painfully changes required before that happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelyhead Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 There's no way on earth that the vote will be yes. Aside from the total propaganda being deployed by the authorities to scare people into voting the 'correct' way, in the event that the Scots look like voting for independence you can expect an electoral 'fix'. The establishment in Westminster is NOT going to let a huge chunk of land and people out of its sphere of control, nevermind the resulting cost and chaos of relocating assets into what remains of the UK. We shall see. It is clear that the YES campaign have a huge following in Scotland. You can hardly walk a hundred feet without seeing some form of yes campaign advertisement e.g. stickers, flags etc. There are YES shops in most large towns and stalls in smaller places. Yes campaigners are very well organised. The opposite is true for the NO campaign. Hardly any posters and stickers. I don't believe they have shops. They have a few stalls here and there but it is no where near the level that the YES campaign has. The people with the passion in this referendum are the YES voters. You talk to someone about Scottish independence and you can tell straight away which way they will be voting. Enthusiasm = YES. Doom and gloom = NO. If Westminster were caught trying to fix the vote there would be an uprising! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 We shall see. It is clear that the YES campaign have a huge following in Scotland. You can hardly walk a hundred feet without seeing some form of yes campaign advertisement e.g. stickers, flags etc. There are YES shops in most large towns and stalls in smaller places. Yes campaigners are very well organised. The opposite is true for the NO campaign. Hardly any posters and stickers. I don't believe they have shops. They have a few stalls here and there but it is no where near the level that the YES campaign has. The people with the passion in this referendum are the YES voters. You talk to someone about Scottish independence and you can tell straight away which way they will be voting. Enthusiasm = YES. Doom and gloom = NO. If Westminster were caught trying to fix the vote there would be an uprising! 'Democracy' is managed all the time, this will be no different. I see William hill are offing 1/4 on Scotland staying part of the Union - that's a 25% practically guaranteed return on investment right there. Very tempted to put something substantial on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelyhead Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 That's about the height of it - when (not if, any and all means necessary will be taken to ensure a 'no' vote) they vote to stay part of the UK, the jocks will be thoroughly screwed over in the years following. 'They voted for it' after all. The next time the question of independence comes up (if it is ever allowed to), the oil will be gone and any new nation would face a considerably more difficult start. Exactly. That is why now is the time to do it. Although I personally don't agree with it, I can see where YES voters are coming from that label no voters "Traitors". A NO vote will ensure Scotland is screwed over for all of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwiches33 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 We shall see. It is clear that the YES campaign have a huge following in Scotland. You can hardly walk a hundred feet without seeing some form of yes campaign advertisement e.g. stickers, flags etc. There are YES shops in most large towns and stalls in smaller places. Yes campaigners are very well organised. The opposite is true for the NO campaign. Hardly any posters and stickers. I don't believe they have shops. They have a few stalls here and there but it is no where near the level that the YES campaign has. The people with the passion in this referendum are the YES voters. You talk to someone about Scottish independence and you can tell straight away which way they will be voting. Enthusiasm = YES. Doom and gloom = NO. If Westminster were caught trying to fix the vote there would be an uprising! Yes Scotland will a mass a force of 200 on the border with a promise to sack Westminster and I know many English who will turn up in buses and offer a lift Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelyhead Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 'Democracy' is managed all the time, this will be no different. I see William hill are offing 1/4 on Scotland staying part of the Union - that's a 25% practically guaranteed return on investment right there. Very tempted to put something substantial on. William Hill will see you coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@contradevian Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) Yeah its not like there are any tories up there anyway. Its an end to the British empire too from what I hear OZ NZ and Canada are watching proceedings very carefully. It makes Cameron look impotent on the world stage too as half his country has pissed off because they hate him. How can you tell anyone what to do when you cant hold your own country together. Imagine being the PM who presided over the end of the UK. So many good reasons for a yes but mostly the party, Hardly 'half the country' Scotland is what +6M people? Slightly more economically significant than Yorkshire. Edited September 2, 2014 by aSecureTenant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelyhead Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Hardly 'half the country' Scotland is what +6M people? Slightly more economically significant than Yorkshire. Land mass perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Lorne Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Interesting tread but I think the OP was more about the effect that a yes vote would have on Sterling. Apart from some short term volatility, I think that a yes vote, in the mid term, would accurately be bullish for Sterling! Longer term I think Scotland could be better off going it alone but that would be a lot of painfully changes required before that happens. ...when many of the Commonwealth countries like Ghana, Nigeria etc voted for independence they set up their own Central Bank similar to independent Australia , New Zealand, Canada etc etc....why is this not being considered for an independent, Scotland ...and would it not strengthen the Indy argument...?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelyhead Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 ...when many of the Commonwealth countries like Ghana, Nigeria etc voted for independence they set up their own Central Bank similar to independent Australia , New Zealand, Canada etc etc....why is this not being considered for an independent, Scotland ...and would it not strengthen the Indy argument...?... I think that is the not talked about long term goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Lorne Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Hardly 'half the country' Scotland is what +6M people? Slightly more economically significant than Yorkshire. ...ahh ..but the richest country in Europe, Norway, has a population of 5 million..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 The trouble is that if the posts on the O/T Forum thread are in anyway representative of Scottish opinion, many voters think all these economic concerns are irrelevant. Many yes voters are very loud and say their piece over and over again. Many no voters are the complete opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelyhead Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Many yes voters are very loud and say their piece over and over again. Many no voters are the complete opposite. Passionate is the word your looking for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) It is looking more and more likely that a YES vote could be on the cards. Hence this thread. Your second sentence is pure fantasy. Feel free to prove me wrong though. A party whose entire remit is based on 'Independence' and who have been shouting from the rooftops about how unfair it is to be ruled from afar - can hardly tell another area they can't do the same. Edited September 2, 2014 by ccc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Yeah its not like there are any tories up there anyway. Its an end to the British empire too from what I hear OZ NZ and Canada are watching proceedings very carefully. It makes Cameron look impotent on the world stage too as half his country has pissed off because they hate him. How can you tell anyone what to do when you cant hold your own country together. Imagine being the PM who presided over the end of the UK. So many good reasons for a yes but mostly the party, Lord there is some amount of ignorance when it comes to this debate. In the last General election the SNP got 490,000 votes. The Consevatives got 410,000............................................... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_Kingdom_general_election_results_in_Scotland?bcsi_scan_8F453A5B255CBBE6=koTaxSmZkFmouZgOg2cVXtFnVT4eAAAAVthGFw== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Lorne Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I think it is to do with the rate on their share of the national debt. That's the ONLY thing I can think of regarding their approach...oh apart from trying to give as few reasons to say 'NO' as possible. The other thing that crosses my mind is that it is all inextricably linked with oil too of course, although our status as a petro currency is diminishing somewhat, but probably significant to an extent we are not aware of. If Scotland launched their own currency and they had the oil, be prepared for a strong currency and surprisingly low rates I say. Some blame 'Scottish' oil for the destruction of manufacturing aka 'Dutch Disease'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_disease I'm still waiting for everyone to funnel tons of money into Yorkshire for all the coal. ....yep ..the 'Dutch disease' I believe hit Nigeria ...when oil became the power house in the economy agricultural and other exports suffered from the early 70's .. overall oil production has benefited the country ....but in more recent times Norway has balanced things pretty well as far as I am aware...there are large reserves off Shetland which require new technology and when the price is right ..it's viable ....like all commodities it is an up and down business ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuse Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Im scottish and live in Edinburgh at the moment (have lived on pretty much every continent at sme point in my life so far) and as a business owner would obviously prefer the staus quo (just stating my stance in case of bias etc) and i would have said a few months ago that it was going to be a definate NO vote, however over the last few weeks im not sure thats now going to be the case. This is just my opinion and is based on my conversations with friends and other general punters in the pub etc. The general feeling has changed very much against the No campaign and there very negative tactics - much like any election really. When you get a politicial standing up in a govan ship yard and telling them if they vote for independance they will all be out of a job, they see it as antagonistic bullying and blackmail, this is the type of place where trades unions were formed and still have firebrands coming through their ranks - they very people who form parties like the SNP and it pretty obviously an own goal. Quite frankly saying things like the Barnett Formula would be modified on a No vote creates uncertainty and the Yes campaign have firmly grasped onto that now so if theres going to be uncertainty, we at least may as well be in control of it that someone else - another massive own goal. And this type of event is repeated on an almost daily basis, the No campaign is an utter joke its almost like a sketch show from a channel 4 comedy programme. Its almost as if they really want to get a Yes vote through so the torries can have permenant control over westminster. Thankfully there has been a lot of pretty independant econimic analysis and the general results are that scotland would have been the same, or ever so slightly better off as independant (or slightly less worse off really due to the national debt rise). The momentum at the moment is firmly with the Yes campaign i would say and if the No campaign dont get their act together sooner rather than later - regardless there will be about 2% in in the vote either way, whichever way it goes i cant say for sure now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Passionate is the word your looking for! I personally wouldnt class repeating similar things ad nauseum as 'passionate'. There is lots of passino of both sides of the debate. However the NO's very much tend to keep it low key. Everyone gets one vote - doesnt matter how loud they shout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Im scottish and live in Edinburgh at the moment (have lived on pretty much every continent at sme point in my life so far) and as a business owner would obviously prefer the staus quo (just stating my stance in case of bias etc) and i would have said a few months ago that it was going to be a definate NO vote, however over the last few weeks im not sure thats now going to be the case. This is just my opinion and is based on my conversations with friends and other general punters in the pub etc. The general feeling has changed very much against the No campaign and there very negative tactics - much like any election really. When you get a politicial standing up in a govan ship yard and telling them if they vote for independance they will all be out of a job, they see it as antagonistic bullying and blackmail, this is the type of place where trades unions were formed and still have firebrands coming through their ranks - they very people who form parties like the SNP and it pretty obviously an own goal. Quite frankly saying things like the Barnett Formula would be modified on a No vote creates uncertainty and the Yes campaign have firmly grasped onto that now so if theres going to be uncertainty, we at least may as well be in control of it that someone else - another massive own goal. And this type of event is repeated on an almost daily basis, the No campaign is an utter joke its almost like a sketch show from a channel 4 comedy programme. Its almost as if they really want to get a Yes vote through so the torries can have permenant control over westminster. Thankfully there has been a lot of pretty independant econimic analysis and the general results are that scotland would have been the same, or ever so slightly better off as independant (or slightly less worse off really due to the national debt rise). The momentum at the moment is firmly with the Yes campaign i would say and if the No campaign dont get their act together sooner rather than later - regardless there will be about 2% in in the vote either way, whichever way it goes i cant say for sure now. Do you really beleive there has been a swing ? I live in Edinburgh too. I have seen all the YES events and the stickers and windows etc.. I have heard all the chat from the YES campaign on TV about how they have great momentum etc.. - isnt it fantastic. However one rather important thing is missing from my experiences. Not one person who has changed from NO to YES. In fact not even one 'undecided' that has changed to either. Personally I think the undecided group is tiny. Nearly everyone made their minds up ages ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuse Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Do you really beleive there has been a swing ? I live in Edinburgh too. I have seen all the YES events and the stickers and windows etc.. I have heard all the chat from the YES campaign on TV about how they have great momentum etc.. - isnt it fantastic. However one rather important thing is missing from my experiences. Not one person who has changed from NO to YES. In fact not even one 'undecided' that has changed to either. Personally I think the undecided group is tiny. Nearly everyone made their minds up ages ago. I guess it will depend on entirely your group you associate in. Some people i came into contact a few were Firmly Yes and Firmly NO but there was a significant proportion (say 50%) in the middle who have been pushed one way or the other, and i would say about 60% to yes 40% to no (not including the fanatical nutters on either side of the debate, but the more moderate considered ones in the middle) in fact i have been surprised by a few people and their voting intentions. The Yes people are absoltely everywhere and they have been for a while, i have yet to even see a no persion out there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Pretty much every post on this forum identifies another insane piece of Westminster economic mismanagement. Massive public debt, a deficit that isn't coming down, no energy security, public money funnelled into the pockets of bankers and landlords, no investment in infrastructure outside of London, massive overcrowding in the south-east, asset prices pumped up to ludicrous heights, a 'service economy' of global money-laundering rather than any real productivity, and the future for the next generation one of perpetual debt. As for hating Cameron, what about the fact his government has been the very epitome of crony captialism? Examples include selling off Royal Mail at a knock-down price while keeping the debts on the public books, 'Help to Buy' to keep house prices nicely inflated for the landowning class, a student loan scheme that is turning out to be more expensive for both students and the government, and opening the door to an NHS takeover by American healthcare companies. It's been all been travelling in this same disastrous direction for the last twenty, if not thirty years, under all three parties. The life chances and living standards of the middle classes crushed under the heel of global capital. An average home now over a quarter of a million, and that's if you can find a job outside London! I really don't see how you can on one hand point out the infinite disasters that our current political system has handed to us, while simultaneously voting to endorse it. If England had a vote to break away from the corrupt charlatans running Westminster, who wouldn't vote Yes? I know which side I am rooting for in Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
repetitive bleats Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 If England had a vote to break away from the corrupt charlatans running Westminster, who wouldn't vote Yes? I know which side I am rooting for in Scotland. Was just thinking this myself. If the Yes vote happens then I might move to Lewes or Cornwall on the basis that if it ever happens here it will be somewhere like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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