Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
crash2006

Age Discrimination In Education.

Recommended Posts

Have a friend who has been unemployed for 7 months, he has decided take on 2 A levels, but he can't afford it £1600 per A level, the college has directed him to this 24 plus loans.

I was shocked to find out, you now have to pay full price for A levels even if your unemployed, Question how the hell are people over 24 supposed to achieve better jobs if they can't go back to college to enroll, courses that are free for the under 19s, surely this age discrimination?

Don't we hear constantly that the British need skills or unemployed should encourage to learn new skills? How can they do that if now they are charging for courses that years ago were free.

Looking over the 24 plus loans to find they are being sold to private investors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have a friend who has been unemployed for 7 months, he has decided take on 2 A levels, but he can't afford it £1600 per A level, the college has directed him to this 24 plus loans.

I was shocked to find out, you now have to pay full price for A levels even if your unemployed, Question how the hell are people over 24 supposed to achieve better jobs if they can't go back to college to enroll, courses that are free for the under 19s, surely this age discrimination?

Don't we hear constantly that the British need skills or unemployed should encourage to learn new skills? How can they do that if now they are charging for courses that years ago were free.

Looking over the 24 plus loans to find they are being sold to private investors.

Accepting your actual point about age discrimination, which I don't disagree with at all, there may be better options for him anyway, Why did he want to do A levels? If his intention is to go to University he may be able to get into a foundation year as a mature student. It`s generally much easier to get into uni as a mature student than a school leaver.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Accepting your actual point about age discrimination, which I don't disagree with at all, there may be better options for him anyway, Why did he want to do A levels? If his intention is to go to University he may be able to get into a foundation year as a mature student. It`s generally much easier to get into uni as a mature student than a school leaver.

A levels are better for certain graduate jobs than access courses, so having A levels gives him the ability to go to university or find better quality jobs using A levels than hnc etc...

We hear constantly that the UK needs skills in maths etc... yet they are restricting education each time, first they take away free university education now they take away the access qualifications to university.

Why pay taxes? the cornerstone was free NHS and education, now the education has gone really there is no need to pay taxes, we pay more taxes and they keep cutting, at what point do we start to riot?

For 50 plus years tax money was used for free education, we are getting to the point we'll not get anything in return but have to pay more in taxes. where is the money going too? pfi?

Edited by crash2006

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm.

Arguably, A levels are a qualification for a very specific age: namely, your late teens. You could do them younger or older, but people don't because their role is in the context of the tail end of the school years. They're not necessary nor relevant for an older person.

If you go for remedial classes as an adult, you're presumably already well-motivated by the mere fact of making that choice! If you want something at a higher level than the remedial, then presumably you have all the same options as an 18-year-old but without the iniquitous parental means-testing?

What other parts of school should an older person be able to take, and who should pay?

Maybe it would make sense to make all post-primary education more flexible and modular? An adult without A-levels is presumably someone whose teenage years were so disaffected as to be wasted (at least in educational terms) and for whom school was the wrong place. For such kids it would make perfect sense to let them do something more productive and resume school at a later age if and when it suits them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is also the related problem of 'failed graduates'.

Little Jonny leaves school at 18 an is wisked off to uni to take part in his parrents favorite business studies course. He graduates at 21 with £50k of debt no no job prospects.

20 years rools by and he has worked hard and finds he has a good set of particular skills. He can never return to uni to retrain, even 20 years later in his 40's as he will be still paying off the loan from a failed 3 year attempt in his late teens.

The system does not allow failure, but the problem is people learn from their mistakes.

This is why a graduate tax would have been better than a loan system as it prevents further education and deters many on a cost basis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

£3200 to do 2 A-Levels. Wow.

It could certainly make an interesting age discrimination case. However I bet our overlords would love to charge the U19 as well for A-levels, we could even start charging for GCSE as well to really boost GDP....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Education itself is effectively outsourced. The state has realised it's futile equipping its "own" people with an education in the new globalised world. Employers don't have any loyalty to "locally sourced" human produce.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm.

Arguably, A levels are a qualification for a very specific age: namely, your late teens. You could do them younger or older, but people don't because their role is in the context of the tail end of the school years. They're not necessary nor relevant for an older person.

If you go for remedial classes as an adult, you're presumably already well-motivated by the mere fact of making that choice! If you want something at a higher level than the remedial, then presumably you have all the same options as an 18-year-old but without the iniquitous parental means-testing?

What other parts of school should an older person be able to take, and who should pay?

Maybe it would make sense to make all post-primary education more flexible and modular? An adult without A-levels is presumably someone whose teenage years were so disaffected as to be wasted (at least in educational terms) and for whom school was the wrong place. For such kids it would make perfect sense to let them do something more productive and resume school at a later age if and when it suits them.

So your telling me that I can apply for a job not needing any education because iam older than 18?

You used to be able to do A levels at any age all free, now you can't. The state keeps going on about education for better jobs, however puts in barriers. The training courses for the unemployed are no suitable in fact a waste of money, proper education courses are better.

Edited by crash2006

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After Nu Labour got in in 1997 the mantra was lifelong learning.

That makes sense in a modern economy where you have to continually upgrade your knowledge and competence.

And the system did provide that, in the form of institutions like the Open University, the ability to take A levels at Fe Colleges and so on.

Now we are back to the "it must all be sorted out by 18-21" or else you're fckud.

The accessibility of the OU as well as the range of its courses in subject areas like science has diminished, and the A level fees mentioned in the OP, speak to a situation where opportunities in later life are receding.

And it's no longer lifelong learning - it's lifelong loaning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After Nu Labour got in in 1997 the mantra was lifelong learning.

And before. My mother got her degree with the Open University about the same time I got mine at Cambridge.

I went straight there at 18 through the conventional path, and studied (notionally) full time. She went in without qualifications such as A levels but with life experience, and studied part time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hundreds of millions for A4e to pretend they ae retraining people.

Billions are found for bus passes and winter fuel allowance, but nothing but bills for people trying to further themselves.

Does the financialization of education contribute to GDP, is that a good enough excuse for this regressive tinkering? Or is this just class warfare keeping the common working man firmy in his place?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now we are back to the "it must all be sorted out by 18-21" or else you're fckud.

Spelling, granddad!

It's sad it's come to this. "Education, education, education" was such an optimistic ambition. I've just started looking at some of the free stuff on Coursera. It looks pretty interesting, but it's probably too soon to be convincing to employers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Taxpayers etc having to bail out the banks the way they were/are forced to (alongside the general economic collapse) has had all sorts of detrimental consequences and that must be at least partly due to that.

Edited by billybong

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Spelling, granddad!

It's sad it's come to this. "Education, education, education" was such an optimistic ambition. I've just started looking at some of the free stuff on Coursera. It looks pretty interesting, but it's probably too soon to be convincing to employers.

Swear filter, sonny boy. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hundreds of millions for A4e to pretend they ae retraining people.

Billions are found for bus passes and winter fuel allowance, but nothing but bills for people trying to further themselves.

Does the financialization of education contribute to GDP, is that a good enough excuse for this regressive tinkering? Or is this just class warfare keeping the common working man firmy in his place?

Think its bit of both, make it harder for the poor to move upwards making it easy for the rich to stay rich. A rich family will always pay the poor cant pay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have a friend who has been unemployed for 7 months, he has decided take on 2 A levels, but he can't afford it £1600 per A level, the college has directed him to this 24 plus loans.

That seems a bit expensive, from a quick Google it looks like some Colleges are charging around £300 per exam, are you sure the £1600 isnt for a full set of exams?

Also some colleges do waive the fees for the unemployed:

If you’re aged 19+ you may be able to study for FREE if you are a UK student and meet the following criteria.

You’re unemployed and in receipt of a state benefit and you want to do the qualification to enable you to get a job (you’ll need to sign a declaration and bring evidence of you being in reciept of state benefit, dated within the last 3 months).

Edited by oligotroph

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That seems a bit expensive, from a quick Google it looks like some Colleges are charging around £300 per exam, are you sure the £1600 isnt for a full set of exams?

Also some colleges do waive the fees for the unemployed:

If you’re aged 19+ you may be able to study for FREE if you are a UK student and meet the following criteria.

You’re unemployed and in receipt of a state benefit and you want to do the qualification to enable you to get a job (you’ll need to sign a declaration and bring evidence of you being in reciept of state benefit, dated within the last 3 months).

http://www.preston.ac.uk/adults/advanced-learning-loans/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So your telling me that I can apply for a job not needing any education because iam older than 18?

You used to be able to do A levels at any age all free, now you can't. The state keeps going on about education for better jobs, however puts in barriers. The training courses for the unemployed are no suitable in fact a waste of money, proper education courses are better.

Im afraid you are missing the point. Education is now an industry contributing to the GDP and success of the UK...all through the magic of Student Loans.

the 24+ scheme is open to all, needs no income criteria and is repayable when you start earning a decent wage.

And because the student contributes nothing, he isnt concerned about the price..hence its now £000s to do these things...I think most level 3 stuff is now covered by these loans, hence there is a huge jump on price from your £140 level 2 course to £000s on the level 3.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mixed feeling on this one.

On the one hand, at the further education college I did my A-levels at about 20 years ago, there where people who just did course after course (not always completing them). Usually A-levels / GCSE resits / B-TECs. I personally know a couple of people who spent 6 or 7 years mucking around in 16-19 education. So obviously you have to start paying at some point.

Having said that even a hard hearted HPC-er like myself wouldn't begrudge someone screwing up there A-levels and then coming back in later life for a second try (To be fair I don't know if the OP's friend even did further education first time round).

Depending on your friends end goal and course he wants to do, maybe Open University would be an option? Obviously then he could still be looking for work, but he would be gaining education that might be useful for the job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mixed feeling on this one.

On the one hand, at the further education college I did my A-levels at about 20 years ago, there where people who just did course after course (not always completing them). Usually A-levels / GCSE resits / B-TECs. I personally know a couple of people who spent 6 or 7 years mucking around in 16-19 education. So obviously you have to start paying at some point.

Having said that even a hard hearted HPC-er like myself wouldn't begrudge someone screwing up there A-levels and then coming back in later life for a second try (To be fair I don't know if the OP's friend even did further education first time round).

Depending on your friends end goal and course he wants to do, maybe Open University would be an option? Obviously then he could still be looking for work, but he would be gaining education that might be useful for the job.

Trouble is, OU also costs a bomb. From website: "Modules cost £1316 (30 credits) or £2632 (60 credits)" - that's if you're in England and 2014/15 prices (it says fees normally increase annually in line with inflation).

To get a degree you need to get 360 credits, so the fees for a degree will cost you £15,792. Some study virtually full-time, to get 120 credits a year over 3 years, most study part-time, to get 60 credits a year over 6 years.

You can get a student loan to pay the fees, same Ts & Cs as students at bricks & mortar universities.

That's a degree, of course, not A levels. But for someone who's considering doing A levels as an adult in order to get into higher education, the OU might be a better bet, as most courses don't demand formal qualifications, so you don't waste time and money getting the A levels.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, i know OE costs a fair bit (but not as much as a full time degree).

I was just thinking if he was doing the A-levels in order to start a degree (end cost about £33k)

It may be better to just do an OE degree cost £15,792 (plus you can look for work)

We probably need to know more, maybe the person wants some fun on a full time degree course.

Either way, what a sad state we are in, unless he is still pretty young or gets an amazing job, there is little chance this person will be able to live the life that 30 years ago would be associated with a graduate (i.e. owning a house) and paying back the debt he got into to get the degree.

In many way I am glad I was born when I was (even though I missed out on cheap house prices!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   206 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.