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Britain Would Be The Poorest State If It Joined The Usa


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If Britain were to leave the European Union and join the United States, it would be the poorest of all US states based on GDP per capita, figures uncovered by The Spectator show.

According to Fraser Nelson, editor of the current affairs magazine, if you were to take GDP per US state, divide it by population, and compare it with the latest data from the UK Treasury, Britain would fall behind the poorest US states of Kansas, Alabama and Missouri, currently marred by the Ferguson riots.

GDP
Gross Domestic Product estimates are measures of a whole country or region’s economic output. Per-capita GDP is a measure to account for population growth in those areas.
PPP
Purchasing Power Parity is a technique used to determine the relative value of different currencies which can help minimize misleading international comparisons. It is a measure of what can be bought with a given currency.

Based on the US average, only Mississippi comes out poorer than the UK until Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) is added into the equation. When spending power is taken into account, based on how much can be bought with $100 in the UK and each US state, Britain’s PPP adjusted GDP per capita falls to last place in the ranking.

The figures come as a surprise to those who compare the level of conspicuous poverty in the US against the financial preeminence of London, recently named by Forbes as “The World’s Most Influential City” for its abundance of foreign direct investment deals. While both nations share vast social inequality, it is thought to be less conspicuous in the UK.

The Luxemburg Income Study database (LIS) shows middle-earning Americans are better-off than Brits. Even lower-income Americans – those in the bottom 20 percent – are better-off than their British counterparts. The only group actually worse off are the bottom 5 percent.

Meanwhile, Oxfam claims the combined fortunes of Britain’s five richest families are worth more than the poorest 20 percent of the population. The charity calculated that Britain’s five richest families have a fortune of £28.2 billion ($46.9 billion), more than the £28.1 billion ($46.7 billion) shared between the poorest 20 percent of the UK population.

Over the past two decades, the richest 0.1 percent of the UK population has seen its wealth grow almost four times faster than the top 90 percent of the population. In real terms, the rich have seen their income rise by £24,000 ($40,000) every year.

At the other end of the spectrum, food poverty has risen to such an extent that malnutrition is fast becoming more common in the UK, with a 19 percent increase in the number of citizens hospitalized for malnutrition over the past 12 months. Britain’s Faculty of Public Health has linked the growing trend to people’s inability to afford quality food.

About one in three UK families now live below the breadline, despite the British economy doubling in size over the same period.

http://rt.com/uk/182856-britain-poorer-us-state/

Edited by 1929crash
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Yes, we all know America has a VERY big GDP. Pity most people don't get to see most of it and a lot of it is rather useless (ie $500bn+ on the military, somewhere around $1 trillion on a healthcare system that delivers the kind of results that should cost half that or less). In fact I wonder what the point of a lot of GDP is.

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Yes, we all know America has a VERY big GDP. Pity most people don't get to see most of it and a lot of it is rather useless (ie $500bn+ on the military, somewhere around $1 trillion on a healthcare system that delivers the kind of results that should cost half that or less). In fact I wonder what the point of a lot of GDP is.

I think the article understates the positive impact of the welfare state which, despite its failings, makes Britain a better place to live in than the USA.

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I think the article understates the positive impact of the welfare state which, despite its failings, makes Britain a better place to live in than the USA.

think they have all that in the US too. food stamps, section 8 and so on. They get ripped off for healthcare, we get ripped off housing. Not sure if theres much difference any more.

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The GDP data is a crock.

The Lis data is quite interesting though. (Amongst other bits, we have a terrible level of disposable income outside the top 10% in this country).

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_RWVqW2-sYQw/RlN2FRnTMkI/AAAAAAAAAF0/NG9GkDA9sZk/s1600-h/inequality1.JPG

In short, the countries with the richest 10% (Israel, USA, UK) tend to have the worst ratios for wealth redistribution.

This is odd, because as we all know trickle down economics has been working flawlessly for 35+ years. At some point the rich is this country are going to blow their wads all over us and we'll all be minted*. Honest.

(*May not actually happen. Death may occur before the occurrence of this. The rich cannot be held responsible for anything, and may choose to trickle their income out into a series of perfectly legitimate tax havens overseas instead. Always read the label. Remember: all this is those nasty poor people's fault).

Edited by byron78
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Meanwhile, Oxfam claims the combined fortunes of Britain’s five richest families are worth more than the poorest 20 percent of the population. The charity calculated that Britain’s five richest families have a fortune of £28.2 billion ($46.9 billion), more than the £28.1 billion ($46.7 billion) shared between the poorest 20 percent of the UK population.

Over the past two decades, the richest 0.1 percent of the UK population has seen its wealth grow almost four times faster than the top 90 percent of the population. In real terms, the rich have seen their income rise by £24,000 ($40,000) every year.

Oxfam doesn't have to rub it in as most people know the unfair distributions if only in general terms.

The actual wealth of the richest wouldn't matter that much if the UK was run half decently - but it's not. The laughable thing is that whenever the UK's manipulated GDP figure increases a bit whichever wing of the LibLabCon running things then think they can start to tell the rest of the world how to run a country demonstrating their craziness writ large. Currently they're saying that Germany should QE when QE has been an abject failure for the UK economy in real terms and Germany's GDP recovery is far better than the UK's measured against the 2008 level.

Edited by billybong
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Showing that the US as a whole has a GDP per Capita about 50% larger than the UK's.

The UK is well down the list even compared to Iceland.

Remember that these figures are all going to depend upon the exchange rate used to translate the currency into US$. Sterling has been all over the place in recent years, against the Euro and Dollar. Against the Euro Sterling was trading at less than 1.20 for most of 2013 and bottomed out at 1.15, depending upon the rate used that's going to have an effect.

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Remember that these figures are all going to depend upon the exchange rate used to translate the currency into US$. Sterling has been all over the place in recent years, against the Euro and Dollar. Against the Euro Sterling was trading at less than 1.20 for most of 2013 and bottomed out at 1.15, depending upon the rate used that's going to have an effect.

I though PPP was designed to reduce the impact of exchange rates?

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I believe we have just fallen below Spain for 'labour costs' which the FT was trumpeting as some kind of success.

Ahh - here we go....

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2fb8d778-2b93-11e4-a03c-00144feabdc0.html

Of course this all goes hand in hand with our elites thinking a weak currency coupled with cheap labour equals high employment and success.

Talk to the Germans and they like a strong currency as that is how you get rich, it drives industry to move upmarket and create high value added and invest to ensure high prodcutivity.

Anyway, our drop in living standards for ordinary people to the bottom of the EU is on the not so distant horizon too even if you can't quite believe that right now. After all - who would have thought our labour would become cheaper than Spain's for godssake?

I think that is because much of our labour is Spanish, Polish, etc.

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GDP includes government debt and the US government rather specialises in that. Not sure a direct comparison with the country with the reserve currency that gets to spend like a drunken sailor is all that possible. I personally would not like to live in the US for a multitude of reasons.

That said. Just look around you in the UK and you can see it's not a particularly nice place to live, with everybody stuck in rabbit hutches and a fair few people hunched over bowls of supernoodles. Entirely self inflicted by our idiot governments, too.

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Remember that these figures are all going to depend upon the exchange rate used to translate the currency into US$. Sterling has been all over the place in recent years, against the Euro and Dollar. Against the Euro Sterling was trading at less than 1.20 for most of 2013 and bottomed out at 1.15, depending upon the rate used that's going to have an effect.

The GDP per Capita figures are based on PPP (Purchasing Power Parity).

From wikipedia

http://

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity

PPP exchange rates help to minimize misleading international comparisons that can arise with the use of market exchange rates.

So GDP per Capita figures based on PPP will be more accurate for comparison purposes and give a better picture in comparing countries/regions than for example the (manipulated) GDP figures alone.

GDP shows the UK around 6th in the world UK (UK politicians like to use GDP) but the GDP per Capita puts the UK far lower and at best around 21st.

Edited by billybong
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In the UK we have tax funded health care meaning no matter what I will receive some form of treatment and not become penniless if I enter hospital whereas in the US I could lose everything if I become seriously ill.

I'd rather be in the poor UK thanks.

Health costs are the biggest cause of bankruptcy in the United States.

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Apparently the NHS and private healthcare totals about 10% of UK GDP so even if you take it out of the equation and say it's an invisible contribution (in terms of accountancy) the GDP per Capita of the US as a whole would still be about 40% larger than the UK's - roughly speaking.

Although a large part of that 10% figure probably contributes to the UK's GDP figure. It might even be double counted somewhere.

Edited by billybong
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The yanks have a lot less vacation time than we do, and work more hours, so surely that would also feed directly into GDP per capita.

Personally I'd rather have the time off!

Speaking personally I'm pretty happy with my lot in life, earn slightly over the median salary, can afford whatever I want within reason, I rarely have to pull back from something due to not having money for it. I know many Americans with far less who work far more than I. Had some Yank and Swedish friends down recently, they more or less spent a few days living my life as we went to the usual watering holes, bought the usual curries etc - they liked it here, one said they could imagine living here - if not for the housing.

The only thing I really REALLY envy them about is the quality of housing. Like, pets for example, it's totally normal for even rented accommodation in the US to allow pets - you just pay extra for it. Here, there's 0 chance of me owning a cat unless I own a house. Even mod cons and stuff like dishwashers, stuff the yanks famously have that we don't - a dishwasher is <£200. I could have one of those no problem (and would like one) - problem is, where am I gonna put it it in my tiny digs? There's no room.

I think our brand of politics is peculiarly bad. The left wing, IngSoc if you will, is obsessed with stamping out civil liberties, enforcing correct thoughts and economic illiteracy (see: tax credits). The Right is all about rentierism and extracting cash from the serfs, on the other hand. It doesn't seem to be that way in other countries. In the Nordic countries it seems like there isn't quite the hatred of sane economics that there is here, for example, even from their lefty politicians. And the right there is actually free marketeers rather than landowners.

Perhaps it's just grass is greener.

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The yanks have a lot less vacation time than we do, and work more hours, so surely that would also feed directly into GDP per capita.

Personally I'd rather have the time off!

Speaking personally I'm pretty happy with my lot in life, earn slightly over the median salary, can afford whatever I want within reason, I rarely have to pull back from something due to not having money for it. I know many Americans with far less who work far more than I. Had some Yank and Swedish friends down recently, they more or less spent a few days living my life as we went to the usual watering holes, bought the usual curries etc - they liked it here, one said they could imagine living here - if not for the housing.

The only thing I really REALLY envy them about is the quality of housing. Like, pets for example, it's totally normal for even rented accommodation in the US to allow pets - you just pay extra for it. Here, there's 0 chance of me owning a cat unless I own a house. Even mod cons and stuff like dishwashers, stuff the yanks famously have that we don't - a dishwasher is <£200. I could have one of those no problem (and would like one) - problem is, where am I gonna put it it in my tiny digs? There's no room.

Don't forget many Americans work 2 or 3 jobs or work insanely long shifts. Plus many jobs only pay because of the tips.

Dishwasher - WTF. Why would anyone want one of them a complete waste of energy and money. Washing the posts only takes 2-3 minutes!!

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Seems to be yeah.

We're dragging the rest of Europe down a bit.

That can't be right.

The Daily Mail and UKIP told me it's the other way round.

Romania is down at 15, so maybe not, as far as UKIP is concerned anyway. ;)

Don't think Farage is fussed about Germans given he's married to one.

Edited by EUBanana
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  • 415 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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