Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Frank Hovis

Hot Water - False Economy?

Recommended Posts

When I haven't got the heating on (vast majority of the year) I also don't have the hot water on and boil the kettle when I do actually want some; for shaving and washing up, so twice a day tops which isn't much of an inconvenience.

I'm not including boiling for hot drinks as I would do this anyway.

I do this on the assumption that it's cheaper than keeping a full hot water boiler warm; with the incidental benefit of using less water through not having to run the hot tap.

Is doing this a false economy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dunno. But having a hot water tank in the first place is just ridiculous, unless you have solar hot water panels.

Why did Brit plumbers continue to install them, half a century after everyone else was using something more efficient?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I haven't got the heating on (vast majority of the year) I also don't have the hot water on and boil the kettle when I do actually want some; for shaving and washing up, so twice a day tops which isn't much of an inconvenience.

I'm not including boiling for hot drinks as I would do this anyway.

I do this on the assumption

I like religion! It makes people stupid! I'm off to steal the church bell again! Then we hide it behind the pub, as usual!

that it's cheaper than keeping a full hot water boiler warm; with the incidental benefit of using less water through not having to run the hot tap.

Is doing this a false economy?

I like a bath every day, Frank!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like a bath every day, Frank!

An occasional luxury for me Mr P!

I've twice had the hot water fail at previous homes (which gave me the idea) and I recall trying to have a hot bath on a cold day by boiling the kettle, it got to about a third full before it the cooling effect offset the new kettleful of boiling water.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do the same re boiling the kettle to shave and obviously hot drinks.

Clearly boiling a small kettle is cheaper than heating up an entire tank of water.

Tightwad Welshy!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do the same re boiling the kettle to shave and obviously hot drinks.

Clearly boiling a small kettle is cheaper than heating up an entire tank of water.

You need to get rid of the hit water tank and get a decent combi boiler.

Heating with gas is far cheaper than heating with electricity...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do the same re boiling the kettle to shave and obviously hot drinks.

Clearly boiling a small kettle is cheaper than heating up an entire tank of water.

It was the "clearly" that I wasn't sure on.

I was assuming that for heating a set amount of water then a boiler is far more efficient than a kettle.

But that the fuel required to keep it continually hot and the massive discrepancy in volume would significantly outweigh this efficiency gain.

That was my guess but there's usually someone on here that knows.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Certainly cheaper but there is also the convenience factor to consider..

Keeping a kettle in the bathroom which would almost certainly be against electrical installation regs. (No 13 amp sockets in bathrooms permissible these days)

Or

Having a wash and shave amongst the washing up.

I have a two year old baxi. This time of year I fire it up for 30 minutes twice a day to get a full tankful of stonking hot water.

As we have 3 gravity fed showers in the place, this is more than enough for our needs.

And I don't think I have an exorbitant gas bill. Unlike the other thread around these parts I won't put the heating on until it actually gets cold. Around the end of November and never ever in August....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I haven't got the heating on (vast majority of the year) I also don't have the hot water on and boil the kettle when I do actually want some; for shaving and washing up, so twice a day tops which isn't much of an inconvenience.

I'm not including boiling for hot drinks as I would do this anyway.

I do this on the assumption that it's cheaper than keeping a full hot water boiler warm; with the incidental benefit of using less water through not having to run the hot tap.

Is doing this a false economy?

Have you thought about getting a multipoint boiler? it heats boils it as you use it? no tank required......personally sticking to what I am used to, the investment not cost effective as I see I heat the tank and do all my washing-up, airing and bathing until the water runs cold. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't do what I did. Our house has an efficient condensing gas boiler which has a built in hot water tank. When we left for the summer I turned off the gas boiler, but what I didn't know was that the tank is fitted with an optional electric immersion heater so when my wife went back for a few days she was treated to piping hot water. A search for the, well hidden, immersion heater switch was successful and it is now permanently off. It probably cost me dearly over the winter too as I turned down the water temperature control on the boiler a few degrees and suspect that the immersion heater did most of the work, which would explain our higher than expected electricity bill.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you thought about getting a multipoint boiler? it heats boils it as you use it? no tank required......personally sticking to what I am used to, the investment not cost effective as I see I heat the tank and do all my washing-up, airing and bathing until the water runs cold. ;)

I'll bet you haven't had a bath since 1976! :wacko:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It may depend on how many times you boil up the water using a kettle. A boiler can be turned on for a limited time, and then you have hot water for 2 days if well-insulated(ok lukewarm by the end of the 2nd day). You may well have used less leccy than various kettle usages. Maybe you can conduct an experiment and monitor the meter usage?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The last time I asked the wife to put the kettle on she crowded me into a corner of the kitchen.

Now tell me......how full do you fill the kettle to boil enough for two cups of tea?......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We use old style immersion heater on a timer for about one hour a day. Also have inefficient night storage heaters! Total electric bill for year is around twelve hundred pounds. No gas supply to the house.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Love the idea of having one of these, at around £2k exceptionally poor value.

I am wincing at people moving cups under the running steam of boiling water.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hot water tanks are a cheap way of having hot water readily available. If properly insulated, the heat loss from a domestic hot water tank is negligible (about 1 kWh per 24 hours, which works out at about 5p per day for gas heating).

A tank permits high flow rates on a low cost gas boiler or electric boiler. Attempting to heat water on demand for a shower or bath filling requires a high power (about 10 kW minimum for a decent flow shower, and about 30 kW for a suitably fast bath filler). There are practical problems achieving this with electric heating, and with gas heating, it requires a significantly more expensive boiler and large diameter gas pipes to maintain the flow rate required.

Today, a modern gas boiler can achieve this, but the cost of a modern boiler is dramatically higher than the smaller, low tech versions of 20 year ago. If you upgrade, you may well be caught by the problem of not having large enough gas piping to power a modern boiler, and require the gas pipes in the house to be relaid.

The 2nd advantage of a tank is that it can provide a backup method of water heating - e.g. gas and electric, or gas and solar/wood burner. This is an important consideration as it can significantly mitigate the problem of a gas boiler failure.

That said, this is will be moot in a few years. The 2016 building regulations are expected to ban the installation or upgrade of gas boilers, except as a direct replacement. New builds and extensions will need to have alternative heating provision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That said, this is will be moot in a few years. The 2016 building regulations are expected to ban the installation or upgrade of gas boilers, except as a direct replacement. New builds and extensions will need to have alternative heating provision.

I know a man than can or could do a search on how to replace a thermocouple....I can't see the point of destroying something that works perfectly well or only requires a minor part to make it work as good as new.......more energy must go into replacing perfectly good boilers than the extra little energy they may use....bet the copper tanks are worth a few bob in scrapage. :wacko:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know a man than can or could do a search on how to replace a thermocouple....I can't see the point of destroying something that works perfectly well or only requires a minor part to make it work as good as new.......more energy must go into replacing perfectly good boilers than the extra little energy they may use....bet the copper tanks are worth a few bob in scrapage. :wacko:

I don't think that gas heating will be banned, nor will repair or replacement of a gas boiler be banned. However, the specification of gas heating for new installations will be banned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think that gas heating will be banned, nor will repair or replacement of a gas boiler be banned. However, the specification of gas heating for new installations will be banned.

Does that mean we have almost exhausted the North Sea Gas?......Imported gas therefore will fetch a high price.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think that gas heating will be banned, nor will repair or replacement of a gas boiler be banned. However, the specification of gas heating for new installations will be banned.

Eh? So Combi boilers and gas central heating will no longer be allowed? Sorry if I'm being dim here, but that sounds completely mental?!

What are they proposing instead?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hot water tanks are a cheap way of having hot water readily available. If properly insulated, the heat loss from a domestic hot water tank is negligible (about 1 kWh per 24 hours, which works out at about 5p per day for gas heating).

A tank permits high flow rates on a low cost gas boiler or electric boiler. Attempting to heat water on demand for a shower or bath filling requires a high power (about 10 kW minimum for a decent flow shower, and about 30 kW for a suitably fast bath filler). There are practical problems achieving this with electric heating, and with gas heating, it requires a significantly more expensive boiler and large diameter gas pipes to maintain the flow rate required.

Today, a modern gas boiler can achieve this, but the cost of a modern boiler is dramatically higher than the smaller, low tech versions of 20 year ago. If you upgrade, you may well be caught by the problem of not having large enough gas piping to power a modern boiler, and require the gas pipes in the house to be relaid.

The 2nd advantage of a tank is that it can provide a backup method of water heating - e.g. gas and electric, or gas and solar/wood burner. This is an important consideration as it can significantly mitigate the problem of a gas boiler failure.

That said, this is will be moot in a few years. The 2016 building regulations are expected to ban the installation or upgrade of gas boilers, except as a direct replacement. New builds and extensions will need to have alternative heating provision.

My new baxi 32kw was installed in my basement. (was direct replacement for an old gloworm type). The boiler was at the back of the house the gas supply and meter at the front.

The fitter had to uprate the supply from 15mm to 22mm as part of the replacement (requirement under the regulations).

Luckily I was renovating the whole basement anyway so was able to tear the ceilings down to allow easy installation of the pipe run.

This is a mandatory requirement now so has to be factored into the price when considering boiler upgrades. Al together with removal of old, supply fit and test of the new boiler and the new supply pipe I didn't get much change from £2,000.

Great boiler though house is warm and toasty in winter and it is most certainly cheaper to run and more efficient that the old one.

Only downside was the chap building the built in wardrobes put a screw straight through the gas pipe......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   215 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.