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Telegraph: Desperate First-Time Buyers Warned Over Attempts To Use Buy-To-Let Mortgages

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Electoral role? ... Reigned in?

Who is this Nicole Blackmore and how did she get a job as a writer when she can't spell?

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Electoral role? ... Reigned in?

Who is this Nicole Blackmore and how did she get a job as a writer when she can't spell?

Dat dere auto corekt

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The article photo is strangely hilarious:

couple-lettings-ag_2750107b.jpg

It looks like a stock photograph but who would bother staging something so ridiculously specific in the hope of getting to sell it somewhere in the next few years. Plus the young bloke is obviously supposed to be Prince Harry.

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The article photo is strangely hilarious:

couple-lettings-ag_2750107b.jpg

It looks like a stock photograph but who would bother staging something so ridiculously specific in the hope of getting to sell it somewhere in the next few years. Plus the young bloke is obviously supposed to be Prince Harry.

Promotional footage from Harry Potter and the demon mortgage broker starring Hermi-one and spotty ginger kid.

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Electoral role? ... Reigned in?

Who is this Nicole Blackmore and how did she get a job as a writer when she can't spell?

Nicole Blackmore's articles always always are in praise of the landlords from property 118 and their brave and valiant fight against the injustice of West Brom raising their rates on the poor BTLetters mortgages. She writes nauseatingly sickly reports on supporting them.

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Not even an engagement ring... seriously... but of course... "FTBs can't think for themselves" (etc as excuses in 2008 when in 2006 they'd paid £200,000 instead of a more sensible and realistic £100,000 for a house... but bailed out)... now same thing again when they're paying £250,000-£300,000 for houses "FTBs can't think for themselves"... and apparently, with no mind about value, they want to jump queue infront of, trying to get BTL mortgages to buy at "what it is worth" price.

I'd like to think BTL borrowers who can access the finance, to expand again, are being set up for a fall, but that should have happened already.

In fairness a search suggests the same pic has been used in a lettings/renting story too. (This otherone below is probably still available to licence - 2015 things heated up when she's had a phone call brother, telling them to offer £75,000 less than asking price, and the guy worried it's a bit too cheeky, but finally decides to go with it).

6226913.jpg

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Ray Boulger, of brokerage John Charcol, said

The words "Ray Boulger said" are nearly getting used as much as "Vince Cable said".

It's only yesterday that another of the telegraph's "Ray Boulger said" comments was linked to.

That's Ray Boulger the vice-chairman of AMI an organisation that lobbies for mortgage brokers.

About AMI

Our Role

AMI has a pro-active, campaigning mandate and is the voice of the mortgage intermediary profession. We are here to lobby the Government, policymakers, regulators, the media and consumer groups both in the UK and in Brussels, to better represent the needs of mortgage brokers across the country.

The telegraph never seems to mention the role as lobbyist.

The bit near the end that FTBers might be defrauding the banks (of all people) just has to be a joke. It might be true but it's still a joke.

Edited by billybong

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who proposes the idea to lie on the form is the liar.

In my experience, most young people dont even understand what a mortgage is. I dont think many of them have a clue about any of it, mmr, BTL, etc etc, until they are "given advice" by the Charcole Team.

"have you considered the option to get a BTL mortgage?"

"whats that, Mr Charcoal Team member?"

"Its cheaper, mr ans ms FTB"

"can we have the house?"

"yes, there is a wall of money looking for a home in housing investment, from the Far East, and the Governments spending their deficits, and they want to invest in people like you having a home. Sign here. we've got all your details from the first mortgage application so its yours."

"what about our deposit?"

"you can buy new furniture with it, our surveyor will value the property accordingly, Have a nice day"...I know I will...thats £1000 commission..."NEXT!"

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Isn't it ridiculous that it's easier to borrow for a BTL than for a house you actually want to live in? Banks won't lend to other kinds of small businesses, will they!

No wonder home ownership is in freefall - the entire system is rigged to favour rampant landlordism among those who already own property.

Anyone going into buy-to-let has no morals. How can you live with yourself when you're happy to get rich from the efforts of people with no other option but to pay you rent? You may as well have bought rights to the air, or to the water. It's not capitalism but neo-feudalism, and the young are the new serfs.

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The article suggests that the lenders have pulled the plug on presumably small scale new entrant or 'amateur' BTL finance. The article is light on facts though but would be interesting to test. I'll just rent it out!

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The article photo is strangely hilarious:

couple-lettings-ag_2750107b.jpg

It looks like a stock photograph but who would bother staging something so ridiculously specific in the hope of getting to sell it somewhere in the next few years. Plus the young bloke is obviously supposed to be Prince Harry.

"My debt is bigger than yours, don`t even think about it"

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Anecdotal: Guy in my office bought his first flat a few years ago with the sole intention of letting it out. He used a an Owner Occupier mortgage as he was incredulous that the banks charged more for a BTL loan. I know 3 people who are renting with OO mortgages.

Now he is buying a house with his Mrs and the situation is flipped, they cannot afford the place they want on repayment so are buying using BTL IO mortgage with the intention of living there. So effectively he has the wrong kind of mortgage on both houses.

Just seems unfair to me as people who do the right thing don't stand a chance.

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Anecdotal: Guy in my office bought his first flat a few years ago with the sole intention of letting it out. He used a an Owner Occupier mortgage as he was incredulous that the banks charged more for a BTL loan. I know 3 people who are renting with OO mortgages.

Now he is buying a house with his Mrs and the situation is flipped, they cannot afford the place they want on repayment so are buying using BTL IO mortgage with the intention of living there. So effectively he has the wrong kind of mortgage on both houses.

Just seems unfair to me as people who do the right thing don't stand a chance.

Hopefully they'll get find out, assuming the place they are living in is more expensive than the flat, they will be paying more in interest with the way they set up the mortgages!!!

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who proposes the idea to lie on the form is the liar.

In my experience, most young people dont even understand what a mortgage is. I dont think many of them have a clue about any of it, mmr, BTL, etc etc, until they are "given advice" by the Charcole Team.

"have you considered the option to get a BTL mortgage?"

"whats that, Mr Charcoal Team member?"

"Its cheaper, mr ans ms FTB"

"can we have the house?"

"yes, there is a wall of money looking for a home in housing investment, from the Far East, and the Governments spending their deficits, and they want to invest in people like you having a home. Sign here. we've got all your details from the first mortgage application so its yours."

"what about our deposit?"

"you can buy new furniture with it, our surveyor will value the property accordingly, Have a nice day"...I know I will...thats £1000 commission..."NEXT!"

They're both liars.

Your prior experience includes buying at a near peak, and spending time calculating how rich you would have been in the future, via continous HPI, does it not? Prior to maket values changing and the lender possessing your property with their mortgage on it. That's how a market should work. Rout out weak positions, and foolish decision.

Is there no excuse people won't find for entitled ******** outbidding others by £10,000s and £100,000s; now in advance of them trying to buy it via a BTL mortgage, and of course, always after where everyone else but the buyer is to blame.

People don't have brains, and not their fault from not recoiling from massive debt that others would run away from in fear... they're the victims, not others priced out renting families.

Edited by Venger

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They're both liars.

Your prior experience includes buying at a near peak, and spending time calculating how rich you would have been in the future, via continous HPI, does it not? Prior to maket values changing and the lender possessing your property with their mortgage on it. That's how a market should work. Rout out weak positions, and foolish decision.

Is there no excuse people won't find for entitled ******** outbidding others by £10,000s and £100,000s; now in advance of them trying to buy it via a BTL mortgage, and of course, always after where everyone else but the buyer is to blame.

People don't have brains, and not their fault from not recoiling from massive debt that others would run away from in fear... they're the victims, not others priced out renting families.

they are victims in many cases...the guy in the suit and the certificate on the wall, along with the fountain pen used to sign create the impression of a professional with YOUR interest at heart.

Young people could, indeed, anyone could get sucked in...dont forget HALF the people you meet are below average intelligence. Add in the concerted herd psychobabble of the sales team ( everyones doing it, government sanctioned, Regulated, protected, forebearing in a bad time) and we have a multiple convincer that what they are doing MUST be correct.

Its not right, and I dont think any of this is a mis-sale, but this is the World we live in.

When I got my last mortgage, the lender ( The Leeds) insisted the contract was ratified by a solicitor who explained it to me in person (my own solicitor, not theirs).

It seems they stopped doing that particular safeguard years ago.

Edited by Bloo Loo

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they are victims in many cases...the guy in the suit and the certificate on the wall, along with the fountain pen used to sign create the impression of a professional with YOUR interest at heart.

Young people could, indeed, anyone could get sucked in...dont forget HALF the people you meet are below average intelligence. Add in the concerted herd psychobabble of the sales team ( everyones doing it, government sanctioned, Regulated, protected, forebearing in a bad time) and we have a multiple convincer that what they are doing MUST be correct.

Its not right, and I dont think any of this is a mis-sale, but this is the World we live in.

When I got my last mortgage, the lender ( The Leeds) insisted the contract was ratified by a solicitor who explained it to me in person (my own solicitor, not theirs).

It seems they stopped doing that particular safeguard years ago.

I've got my own Mont Blanc fountain and rollerball pens; souced at lower than retail prices, from someone who had met a change in financial circumstances. I enjoy using them. There is nothing wrong with marketing/selling. I admire many in the sector. Sell the benefits, not the function. If you can't get a yes, get a no.

(However yes, regulation should be there so lenders have to have a certain capital base, to support their loans, rather than borrowing excessive leverage from the markets to continue lending.). If you choose to believe others are there to sell you something for your own personal interest, that's your education and experience that is wrong. Markets are markets. We have to make decisions, each and everyone of us. Some choose to pay premium for expert legal advice and take insurance (and now... keep waiting for lower prices)... whereas others use some developers' own solicitor, willing to pay any high price, go via BTL mortgage if they can.. and so on.... yet of course... innocent and sold into it.

If the buyers have their minds in the sewer with entitlement, don't recoil from the price, choose to believe they can afford it (renting is dead money) that's their own decisions. You do realise the sums involved many ftb buyers are paying for houses now; fls, htb. We're talking quarter mill and half a mill+. Previously just as insane in 2005-07, via "not my fault gov - just wanted a home - victim" liar loans, to outbid others at £200,000+. On MSE yesterday... one buyer guy proud again, offer accepted £5,000 more than asking price at £245,000.

It is not for others to carry people who make poor decisions, and in the process, help price out smarter non-owners to ridiculous extremes.

Half the people below average intelligence, but many of them in better homes than others can now afford, having been through cycles of entitlement via liar loans and bailouts for your victims. They should be the ones renting, and in a correction, at lower rental prices than we have now.

Edited by Venger

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The words "Ray Boulger said" are nearly getting used as much as "Vince Cable said".

It's only yesterday that another of the telegraph's "Ray Boulger said" comments was linked to.

That's Ray Boulger the vice-chairman of AMI an organisation that lobbies for mortgage brokers.

The telegraph never seems to mention the role as lobbyist.

The bit near the end that FTBers might be defrauding the banks (of all people) just has to be a joke. It might be true but it's still a joke.

" The Boulgers"

Pope Ray, High priest of the uk property religion...consulted by all V.I's

the_borgias_toptvshows.net_4.jpg

The article photo is strangely hilarious:

couple-lettings-ag_2750107b.jpg

It looks like a stock photograph but who would bother staging something so ridiculously specific in the hope of getting to sell it somewhere in the next few years. Plus the young bloke is obviously supposed to be Prince Harry.

He's feeling for a pulse. Even they won't lend without one

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I've got my own Mont Blanc fountain and rollerball pens; souced at lower than retail prices, from someone who had met a change in financial circumstances. I enjoy using them. There is nothing wrong with marketing/selling. I admire many in the sector. Sell the benefits, not the function. If you can't get a yes, get a no.

(However yes, regulation should be there so lenders have to have a certain capital base, to support their loans, rather than borrowing excessive leverage from the markets to continue lending.). If you choose to believe others are there to sell you something for your own personal interest, that's your education and experience that is wrong. Markets are markets. We have to make decisions, each and everyone of us. Some choose to pay premium for expert legal advice and take insurance (and now... keep waiting for lower prices)... whereas others use some developers' own solicitor, willing to pay any high price, go via BTL mortgage if they can.. and so on.... yet of course... innocent and sold into it.

If the buyers have their minds in the sewer with entitlement, don't recoil from the price, choose to believe they can afford it (renting is dead money) that's their own decisions. You do realise the sums involved many ftb buyers are paying for houses now; fls, htb. We're talking quarter mill and half a mill+. Previously just as insane in 2005-07, via "not my fault gov - just wanted a home - victim" liar loans, to outbid others at £200,000+. On MSE yesterday... one buyer guy proud again, offer accepted £5,000 more than asking price at £245,000.

It is not for others to carry people who make poor decisions, and in the process, help price out smarter non-owners to ridiculous extremes.

Half the people below average intelligence, but many of them in better homes than others can now afford, having been through cycles of entitlement via liar loans and bailouts for your victims. They should be the ones renting, and in a correction, at lower rental prices than we have now.

Im not denying their culpability.

What I am saying is the LIE is not just the signer. Its the seller, the lenders commision incentives, the lenders policy in lending, the lenders policy on resale of the new Assets.

LIAR loans are top to bottom products.

In law, the professional has a greater duty and therefore liability. In most of these contracts, there is a whole chain of professionals who got away with lowering standards for years, thus the herd mentality from top to bottom made what were clearly crimes, just business.

Its how there are few if any bankers in jail for the 2007 crash. The crime was systemic..It appears to be becoming so again...indeed, its taken 7 years for regulators to wake up to the nonsense in the 10 years BEFORE 2007. 17 years of getting away with it.

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Im not denying their culpability.

What I am saying is the LIE is not just the signer. Its the seller, the lenders commision incentives, the lenders policy in lending, the lenders policy on resale of the new Assets.

LIAR loans are top to bottom products.

In law, the professional has a greater duty and therefore liability. In most of these contracts, there is a whole chain of professionals who got away with lowering standards for years, thus the herd mentality from top to bottom made what were clearly crimes, just business.

Its how there are few if any bankers in jail for the 2007 crash. The crime was systemic..It appears to be becoming so again...indeed, its taken 7 years for regulators to wake up to the nonsense in the 10 years BEFORE 2007. 17 years of getting away with it.

Your victims somehow find themselves dragged into brokers, banks, developers' showroom houses and so on... and now, in this article... somehow being dragged into making applications for BTL mortgages, when they want to buy a house for personal use. At prices many here would recoil from.

Incentives, they didn't have to accept. Some of us have been on buyers strike for 10 years (myself, 2 brothers, sister).... the crazy high prices of housing.

Law? A banker now has a duty of care/fiduciary duty to the borrower, who voluntary signed (ohhh with a flashy fountain pen no less, in some instances) up for a big mortgage on a house they deserved price they want to pay, agreed with valuers, to shock others ("renting is dead money") who choose not to meet that asking price.

I've already got a conveyancer on standy, for when I buy... and he is no bucket shop cheap place others choose to go with, and sometimes encounter problems with later, such as botched searches, buyer later wishing conveyancer had inserted retention clauses to protect them. (Chose cheapest... that must mean society is to blame... not the buyer individual for choosing cheapest conveyencer).

The proceeds of the bankers. Also don't forget markets see both sides carried away. In an environment many get carried away with hype, Gordon's new world of no-more-boom-and-bust... ever sillier excuses like more population, not enough houses.... all the while the system is borrowing more than its capital base (I didn't get carried away.. but I pick up the costs because of no hpc, and 30% higher than 2007 prices, not helped at all by your excuses).

Near the end of a major expansion, few creditors expect default, which is why they lend freely to weak borrowers. Few borrowers expect their fortunes to change, which is why they borrow freely. Deflation involves a substantial amount of involuntary debt liquidation because almost no one expects deflation before it starts.

Blameless, and those who saved/rented, pick up all the costs and more? Yes, that's great.

Sure enough, bankers got huge bonuses for years, and many with an awful sense of superiority and complacency and invincibility complexes... but many borrowers just the same with their decisions and entitlement. Do me a favour that they got carried away by a flash suit, nice pen, certificate on the way... as they were signing up for a x8 income mortgage, or their next BTL. Just as they get carried away by TV marketing for next Disney holiday they deserve, bang in on the easy credit card, new car advert they deserve on finance, and everything else. Saving is for mugs, value doesn't matter.

Bankers got big bonuses, but the real theft is the "trillions in joke-fantasy-equity in houses", protected by QE/0.5%/ and the worst of all all... "Victim-Forgivers... they just wanted a home, even if it was £400,000... they couldn't expect the economy to change...". Also part of it was those who already long owned houses, at the mid to higher end... settled and happy. Celebrating HPI running at 10-30% a year. Getting richer. You yourself spent time calculating out what your own home was going to be worth, when you bought towards a peak (late 80s?), before interest rate rises/recession. I've never had that mindset, and shouldn't suffer for those do/and still have, yet we do pay for the 'victims' thanks to all the excuses.

Edited by Venger

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Have you been at the sauce Mr V?

I am agreeing with you. I am aware that many people are very ignorant of mortgages. My own kids are. ( 29 and 27)

The younger one wants to start a family..She want stability and doesnt want to rent.

I can imagine her going to a broker ( this is in france mind and they have punishing debt offender laws which we dont) and asking just how he can help.

A true professional would give correct and unbiased advice, all of which would have to be lawful. A criminal cohort of "professionals" with a plethora of lenders incentives faxed in daily would give advice on how to acheive the requirement and achieve their own fulfilment too, ie, making a sale and getting paid. They appear to have however decided en mass to prioritize making those sales and advise the couple ways to make things happen under the "ways and means Act 2014"...and the bigger the better.

This was and is the status quo of the financialised market...bankers have ALWAYS had to be regulated..otherwise the current myth of free money printing via credit creation would be magnitudes worse than it is.

Trouble is, we were all taught that there were 3 wise men, your accountant, your lawyer and your banker. In the case of mortgages, im sure the last two are somewhat suspect, with the last one not even qualifying as a wise man.

Im sure you can see the difference between a whole channel of professionals working to achieve sales compared to the young couple buying their first home.

I can see it, you can see it, but many cant or as you say, are willing to turn a blind eye as professionals are keen to point out they are unlikely to get caught. And so far, they are 99.999% correct.

Edited by Bloo Loo

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Have you been at the sauce Mr V?

I am agreeing with you. I am aware that many people are very ignorant of mortgages. My own kids are. ( 29 and 27)

The younger one wants to start a family..She want stability and doesnt want to rent.

I can imagine her going to a broker ( this is in france mind and they have punishing debt offender laws which we dont) and asking just how he can help.

A true professional would give correct and unbiased advice, all of which would have to be lawful. A criminal cohort of "professionals" with a plethora of lenders incentives faxed in daily would give advice on how to acheive the requirement and achieve their own fulfilment too, ie, making a sale and getting paid. They appear to have however decided en mass to prioritize making those sales and advise the couple ways to make things happen under the "ways and means Act 2014"...and the bigger the better.

This was and is the status quo of the financialised market...bankers have ALWAYS had to be regulated..otherwise the current myth of free money printing via credit creation would be magnitudes worse than it is.

Trouble is, we were all taught that there were 3 wise men, your accountant, your lawyer and your banker. In the case of mortgages, im sure the last two are somewhat suspect, with the last one not even qualifying as a wise man.

Im sure you can see the difference between a whole channel of professionals working to achieve sales compared to the young couple buying their first home.

I can see it, you can see it, but many cant or as you say, are willing to turn a blind eye as professionals are keen to point out they are unlikely to get caught. And so far, they are 99.999% correct.

Take mortgages out of the equation for now. How can the buyers still be ignorant of the actual price of houses, in this market? Can you explain that to me.

Perhaps that is less of a concern if some parts of France, have had substantial correction (?). A true professional can do all that, in the window of the market at the time. Can't blame them fully if market values change/negative, interest rates go up, world runs out of money (2007), and they did not forsee it.

On savings-income, my brothers and sister are possibly in the top 5% or 10% on some measures, never owned, and asking prices for houses make them want to run and hide and dig into the ground like they're under bombardment. They want stability too, but at these asking prices, when interest rates at some point going to go up from these lows, and job insecurities - time over another company shocks its employees with cuts. Yet others pushing and falling over themselves to pay these asking prices.

Then there's all the costs involved in making some of these places at crazy high asking prices, untouched for years, still with 70s carpets and furnishings, needing repointing, roof works, chimneys, glazing, some quality here and there with craftsmen, to a fair standand.

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