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TheBlueCat

This Pope Geezer

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2727253/Who-needs-Popemobile-Francis-shuns-personal-helicopter-takes-train-Mass-Korea.html

I like this guy immensely even though I'm an atheist. I don't necessarily agree with everything he says, but it's clear from the way he acts he's actually trying (and largely succeeding I would say) to be an actual Christian.

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I do worry about all those grown men running around in broderie anglaise dresses with outsize silk hats on getting people to kiss their rings. It just don't seem natural. :unsure:

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There's only one bloke that I would've been interested in listening to in the highly unlikely event that he'd ever be elected Pope.

Pope Dave the first...

:)

XYY

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I do worry about all those grown men running around in broderie anglaise dresses with outsize silk hats on getting people to kiss their rings. It just don't seem natural. :unsure:

Couldn't agree more - this guy doesn't seem to do that crap, which is part of why I like him. Don't get me wrong, the world would be a better place if the Catholic church ceased to exist, I just think this guy is alright.

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As a Catholic I have to laugh/cry from all the criticism and abuse Catholics get from ex Christians/atheists/feminists.

Catholicism is the only thing that has prevented another religion (that I dare not mention) from sweeping across Europe and bossy babe's avatar would be covered up with a nice tone of black.

ROTFL

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2727253/Who-needs-Popemobile-Francis-shuns-personal-helicopter-takes-train-Mass-Korea.html

I like this guy immensely even though I'm an atheist. I don't necessarily agree with everything he says, but it's clear from the way he acts he's actually trying (and largely succeeding I would say) to be an actual Christian.

Yes, I agree completely.

Not so sure.

I think Jesus went up to heaven in a helicopter, but it's so long since I read a Bible, my memory is a bit fuzzy.

Helicopters were the previous Pope's thing. He held a private pilots license and enjoyed taking the controls of the Papal helicopter.

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I think you will find that the Protestants such as Elizabeth executed for treason, she herself said she had not interest in what "men actually believed" just whether they plotted against her. The Catholic Church on the other hand burnt people at the stake purely on the basis of not believing the official version, you know, folk

Like Bruno who had the temerity to suggest that stars where other Suns but further away...

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Yes, this pope has the appearance of the decent man risen against all expectations to the top of an immensely corrupt organisation. It occasionally happens: notably in (most of) our lifetimes when Gorbachev rose to Soviet president.

If it really has happened in the Catholic church it could in some ways be bigger than Gorbachev and the end of the cold war. The Soviet Union had only existed 70 years, whilst the Catholic church has a hugely long-established history and far more blood on its hands than the total of all the great tyrants of the 20th century and our times.

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Please- England's oppression of Ireland started in the 12th century, which means for the majority of the unhappy Anglo-Irish history, it was catholic versus catholic, try again..,

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Southern France? Would be that the bit that where 100's of thousands of cathars were massacred by the Catholic Church for

Not believing the right way to worship?

My understanding is that the only way to save the Languedoc was to destroy it, leaving it to God sort out the saints from the sinners in the next world.

And in other news, <130,000 Catholics killed in Western France in the name of secular rationalism...

wiki: War in the Vendée

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2727253/Who-needs-Popemobile-Francis-shuns-personal-helicopter-takes-train-Mass-Korea.html

I like this guy immensely even though I'm an atheist. I don't necessarily agree with everything he says, but it's clear from the way he acts he's actually trying (and largely succeeding I would say) to be an actual Christian.

The trick to a happy Papacy is to be down to Earth and as actually Christian as possible but not taking any critical interest whatsoever in the Vatican's rather large, rather un-Christlike financial interests. It reduces the risk of undiagnosed, fatal heart conditions enormously.

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Yes, this pope has the appearance of the decent man risen against all expectations to the top of an immensely corrupt organisation. It occasionally happens: notably in (most of) our lifetimes when Gorbachev rose to Soviet president.

If it really has happened in the Catholic church it could in some ways be bigger than Gorbachev and the end of the cold war. The Soviet Union had only existed 70 years, whilst the Catholic church has a hugely long-established history and far more blood on its hands than the total of all the great tyrants of the 20th century and our times.

careful, he's not quite as saintly as he makes himself out to be.

this is a carefully orchestrated good-cop,bad-cop routine.

you will find that the church has been very heavily involved in the political machinery.

..and they are also implicated in the import of lots of these hardline muslim "aggressors" that are so heavily featured in the media( of which they own quite a bit.....murdoch and branson are both SMOM).

THE REASON FOR THIS IS TO USE MUSLIMS AS A PROXY TO GET RID OF THE REFORMER HERETICS...

ie attempted genocide.(hardly christian conduct at all is it).....at heart they STILL believe in things like the popes supreme right to ALL wealth and property under his control- and inquisitions and stuff like that.

Don't get fooled by the PR exercise.

they have blood on their hands.

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I like this guy immensely even though I'm an atheist. I don't necessarily agree with everything he says, but it's clear from the way he acts he's actually trying (and largely succeeding I would say) to be an actual Christian.

I'm more concerned with what he doesn't say. The Pope is in the enviable position of being able to to prevent more deaths than any other human being ever born, but he wilfully rejects the opportunity to do so. According to WHO 1.6 million people died of AIDS-related illnesses worldwide in 2012. Many of these people would never have become infected if the Catholic church abandoned it's arcane objection to the use of condoms.

Similarly, the countless famines that have blighted sub-Saharan Africa over the centuries would have claimed far fewer lives if the Church had advocated effective birth control.

So, no, having a Twitter account and catching the train to work doesn't hack it with me.

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TheBlueCat

Please give your argument against.

I am on your side, religion aside both the new Pope Francis and the new Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby are good men.......more than you can say for some leaders in this day and age..

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I'm more concerned with what he doesn't say. The Pope is in the enviable position of being able to to prevent more deaths than any other human being ever born, but he wilfully rejects the opportunity to do so. According to WHO 1.6 million people died of AIDS-related illnesses worldwide in 2012. Many of these people would never have become infected if the Catholic church abandoned it's arcane objection to the use of condoms.

Is there any actual data to support that? If Catholic orthodoxy was responsible for promoting the spread of AIDS it should be a relatively straightforward matter to identify higher rates of HIV transmission in regions where Catholicism is strong and lower rates where condoms are being distributed like confetti. I've never seen any data along those lines and would be interested to be pointed towards any.

I did do some clicking, didn't find any data correlating AIDS rates with Catholicism but did find this...

‘We have found no consistent associations between condom use and lower HIV-infection rates, which, 25 years into the pandemic, we should be seeing if this intervention was working.”

and this...

Uganda provides the clearest example that human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) is preventable if populations are mobilized to avoid risk. Despite limited resources, Uganda has shown a 70% decline in HIV prevalence since the early 1990s, linked to a 60% reduction in casual sex. The response in Uganda appears to be distinctively associated with communication about acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS) through social networks. Despite substantial condom use and promotion of biomedical approaches, other African countries have shown neither similar behavioral responses nor HIV prevalence declines of the same scale. The Ugandan success is equivalent to a vaccine of 80% effectiveness. Its replication will require changes in global HIV/AIDS intervention policies and their evaluation.

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The Soviet Union had only existed 70 years, whilst the Catholic church has a hugely long-established history and far more blood on its hands than the total of all the great tyrants of the 20th century and our times.

Far more than c. 150 million?! Are you Jack Chick's lovechild? The real ratio is about the opposite - which is all the more remarkable considering the atheistic tyrants have had far less time than the RCC. None of which excuses several historical crimes committed by the latter.

According to WHO 1.6 million people died of AIDS-related illnesses worldwide in 2012. Many of these people would never have become infected if the Catholic church abandoned it's arcane objection to the use of condoms.

Similarly, the countless famines that have blighted sub-Saharan Africa over the centuries would have claimed far fewer lives if the Church had advocated effective birth control.

So, no, having a Twitter account and catching the train to work doesn't hack it with me.

How many people got AIDS and other STDs despite the church's teaching against promiscuity, including the especially risky homosexual kind? If this teaching had been followed, the problem would be so slight that nobody would even be fussing about condoms pro or con. Indeed complete compliance ought to kill off all STDs within a generation.

And the logic of your famine argument is that it would be best if we just wiped out humanity so there'd then be no more deaths from famine or anything else. The proper response to the threat of famines etc. is to address their (often man-made) causes, not to decrease the number of people who could hypothetically be affected by them.

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ie attempted genocide.(hardly christian conduct at all is it).....

You must have a heavily bowdlerised Bible if you think genocide is un-christian.

Blessed is he that taketh the children of the heathen, and casts them upon the stone.

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Far more than c. 150 million?! Are you Jack Chick's lovechild? The real ratio is about the opposite - which is all the more remarkable considering the atheistic tyrants have had far less time than the RCC. None of which excuses several historical crimes committed by the latter.

How many people got AIDS and other STDs despite the church's teaching against promiscuity, including the especially risky homosexual kind? If this teaching had been followed, the problem would be so slight that nobody would even be fussing about condoms pro or con. Indeed complete compliance ought to kill off all STDs within a generation.

And the logic of your famine argument is that it would be best if we just wiped out humanity so there'd then be no more deaths from famine or anything else. The proper response to the threat of famines etc. is to address their (often man-made) causes, not to decrease the number of people who could hypothetically be affected by them.

All these arguments always descend to the same level, totting up numbers killed like a darts score. It's difficulty to compete with Stalin Or Hitler as the populations involved are so much higher Anyway iirc the bible claims the lord killed several of Adams sons- surely a huge percentage of the worlds population at the time...

Stalin hated the church for the same reason organisations like the RCC hate heretics. They have competing (quasi) religious views to those who have vested interests.

The persecution during the revolutionary period in France mentioned above is a good example. The French revolutionaries were "secularists" that tried to create their own universal religion to compete with the church- hardly atheists..

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Everyone has a belief, all beliefs are different....even atheists believe....there is no right or wrong way, everyone has their own way...who is the ultimate judge? ;)

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Everyone has a belief, all beliefs are different....even atheists believe....there is no right or wrong way, everyone has their own way...who is the ultimate judge? ;)

I would say that the more sophisticated atheists would say they 'believe' that evidence and rationality are paramount, and this would perhaps explain their higher-level 'belief' in the unlikelihood of God.

This kind of 'belief' doesn't seem to be of the same kind as the belief of theists.

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I would say that the more sophisticated atheists would say they 'believe' that evidence and rationality are paramount, and this would perhaps explain their higher-level 'belief' in the unlikelihood of God.

This kind of 'belief' doesn't seem to be of the same kind as the belief of theists.

Each to their own.....who is to say? as long as no one is harmed in the process.....all will find out sooner or later, one way or another, or not. ;)

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Liking a famous bloke because he travels by train...?

Allow me to present the case against that proposition...

;)

XYY

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