Eviction Threat

[RRP]

3 PM yesterday.

My Landlord phoned up to tell me that he would not accept our position. We are set to move out in mid Jan and I have asked him to use the deposit as part of the remaining rent although his wife did initially agree. He was angry and stated that he could pay 600 dollars (not sterling) to an agency to get us evicted straight away. I told him that I would contact my solicitor and he should state this in writing.

The reason I am withholding the rent is simple. The landlords both worked in the mortgage broker business and are now “ on leave” and have been for nearly a year. They have no fixed abode (somewhere in South America). They have dragged there feet over repairs and I smell anxiety.

In short they are a couple of young unemployed BTL’s hoofing around Venezuela.

Question.

Anybody heard of a legal agency, which can evict tenants on this basis?

I have offered to pay for any damages via the independent inventory agency. Incidentally, they were trying to get us to use their friend instead of the original agency. Also, as a “carrot” I offered (for free)to do a host of small repairs they have refused/cannot to take on – tap washers security light sensors etc etc. In return they would allow us to use the deposit for the remaining rent. They said no and told us to keep sending the money. On Wednesday eve, we had a call from a local EA who came around to value the place with a view to selling it.

My immediate neighbour thinks alcohol might have a play in this.

TTRTR. Keep out of this.

PS . Can't get hold of a solicitor until Monday

Edited December 3, 2005 by RRP

[laughing_goat]

I wouldn't worry too much about eviction, it takes months/years for the legal process to happen. If he went to a solicitor, he would tell him not to bother.

He could take you to court over the missed rent though, but when his solicitor finds out about the missing repairs he will be advised against this too (assuming you have sufficient proof, such as something in writing).

Did you advise in writing that you would withhold rent if the repairs weren't done? If you have, he would be on very shaky ground.

[SarahBell]

Write to the landlord and say you're not happy with being threated over the phone and say you are seeking legal advice and possibly harrassment charges being bought against the landlord.

I personally wouldn't pay them a penny more in rent and would leave asap but getting photos of the good state of repair of the property.

[BandWagon]

He was angry and stated that he could pay 600 dollars (not sterling) to an agency to get us evicted straight away.

What type of agency is this? Does it involve a couple of ex wrestlers and a baseball bat?

You might want to start making notes...

Edited December 3, 2005 by BandWagon

[RRP]

I wouldn't worry too much about eviction, it takes months/years for the legal process to happen. If he went to a solicitor, he would tell him not to bother.

He could take you to court over the missed rent though, but when his solicitor finds out about the missing repairs he will be advised against this too (assuming you have sufficient proof, such as something in writing).

Did you advise in writing that you would withhold rent if the repairs weren't done? If you have, he would be on very shaky ground.

I did infrom him in writing about a month ago (e-mail) that rear steps were dangerous - and they are ! . I also supplied him with a list of other faults at that point. I did not however, threaten to withold the rent. Perhaps on a point of law he could have me for "missed rent" but he will not be out of pocket as the deposit will cover this.

[BandWagon]

Ajay Ahuja has written a fair bit about how to go about evicting tenants.

You could try reading some of his stuff.

[RRP]

Write to the landlord and say you're not happy with being threated over the phone and say you are seeking legal advice and possibly harrassment charges being bought against the landlord.

That's a good point.

[murpaul]

3 PM yesterday.

My Landlord phoned up to tell me that he would not accept our position. We are set to move out in mid Jan and I have asked him to use the deposit as part of the remaining rent although his wife did initially agree. He was angry and stated that he could pay 600 dollars (not sterling) to an agency to get us evicted straight away. I told him that I would contact my solicitor and he should state this in writing.

The reason I am withholding the rent is simple. The landlords both worked in the mortgage broker business and are now “ on leave” and have been for nearly a year. They have no fixed abode (somewhere in South America). They have dragged there feet over repairs and I smell anxiety.

In short they are a couple of young unemployed BTL’s hoofing around Venezuela.

Question.

Anybody heard of a legal agency, which can evict tenants on this basis?

I have offered to pay for any damages via the independent inventory agency. Incidentally, they were trying to get us to use their friend instead of the original agency. Also, as a “carrot” I offered (for free)to do a host of small repairs they have refused/cannot to take on – tap washers security light sensors etc etc. In return they would allow us to use the deposit for the remaining rent. They said no and told us to keep sending the money. On Wednesday eve, we had a call from a local EA who came around to value the place with a view to selling it.

My immediate neighbour thinks alcohol might have a play in this.

TTRTR. Keep out of this.

PS . Can't get hold of a solicitor until Monday

My advice, and that’s all it is, is to call his bluff. He's not in the country, and for a couple of hundred is he going to be worth it for him? Furthermore, his wife did make a verbal agreement with you.

Ultimately, if it did get to court, if you can show negligence on his part with repairs then he isn’t fulfilling his part of the contract. He's trying to sell after you leave, so I think he will have more on his plate at the moment. WRT evicting you, that’s rubbish, eviction proceedings are lengthy and costly for him. You are gone in a month, tell him to get stuffed ( under your breath ), and leave in Jan as scheduled.

[Elizabeth]

Sounds like money is tight in Venezela. He can't get you evicted on the spot. This is Britain, not america or australia. He has to go through the legal process. If you are currently in payment on rent (you are moving out in January, if it was 4 weeks / 1 month deposit then your rent will be up to date till at least the end of the week) he can't even take any legal action until you are in arrears - so what is he talking about. Even then he has to get a court date. If there is a direct offset against the bond and the place is in good order there is absolutely no gain for him. The only way he will make a gain is if he didn't intend to return the bond in the first place. Make sure you get the pictures.

EDIT:

When you said bawling I thought you meant he was going to loose his house the repos and he was sobbing profusly! I was about to feel sorry for the tief!

Edited December 3, 2005 by Elizabeth

[The Masked Tulip]

I hope the repairs needed aren't such that you injure yourself due to neglect of repair.

[pricedout]

If you're going to be out by mid jan I should stick to your guns and keep to your original plan.

You have offered your landlord a reasonable solution (which is always looks good should it get to court - which seems unlikely) - also we have the Crimbo slow down over the next few weeks which will slow any possible action by your absent landlord.

If you leave them with any of your money its almost guaranteed that you willl never see it again ! unless you want to pay for them swanning around the globe !

Good luck

Nice avatar - I've got a 79 R80/7 parked outside.

[Time to raise the rents.]

TTRTR. Keep out of this.

I will if you agree to never ever try to rent from me......

I guess people of your standing in the community don't require references from previous landlords either?

[eek]

Report the threat to the police and ensure you get a crime number.

Attached to crime number add a note to the letting agent saying that you won't be paying the rent this month due to the distress caused and they can keep the deposit as the rent. Then make sure you have an inventory with a large number of photos and leave in January.

Just cover your backside however possible but contacting the police will rectify any potential problems with the courts.

[Bubble Pricker]

I will if you agree to never ever try to rent from me......

I guess people of your standing in the community don't require references from previous landlords either?

You keep forgetting that STRs do not require references. An offer to pay 6 or 12 months rent in advance usually takes care of that.

[Time to raise the rents.]

You keep forgetting that STRs do not require references. An offer to pay 6 or 12 months rent in advance usually takes care of that.

Yes I've had that offer before. I turned them down. You never know where the money comes from and a checkable references is all the better. Have to be careful of who you're dealing with when you let such a valuable asset to a stranger you know.....

[Guest]

Yes I've had that offer before. I turned them down. You never know where the money comes from and a checkable references is all the better. Have to be careful of who you're dealing with when you let such a valuable asset to a stranger you know.....

But if you were really bothered about that, you'd never have become a landlord in the first place, of course.

[Elizabeth]

I will if you agree to never ever try to rent from me......

I guess people of your standing in the community don't require references from previous landlords either?

I don't understand TTRTR. If the property is in the same condition (less normal wear and tear) its a nil balance equation. In this case the place sounds better, but thats just what it cost extra to a tenant with a lazy landlord for pride in their home. Unless the landlord intends to keep the bond for a little extra squeeze (as happens all the time - I was warned about this and ignored it to my peril) then they have nothing to gain by collecting the last months rent except that they have to pay out a months rent for the bond.

I repeat ITS A NIL BALANCE EQUATION. 990 - 990 = 0

From the level of anger from the landlard at the very thought of not getting that extra months rent I would expect the guy to try to keep the bond. Then the tenant would have to take him to court which takes months (and all the while the landlord is collecting the interest not much on one bond, but a nice little squeeze on 10) and is such a pain in the butt that we tenants can't get to doing it (Since we tend to be PAYE and that is a couple of days holidays and flexi lost in court and with legal appointments (so its cost us time to the equivalent of say 300 quid that will never be recouped) and I mean, where do you find a lawyer). The landlord in this case has NOTHING TO GAIN from the extra rent. All it means is that they will have to write another cheque - if they ever intended to in the first place.

Not all landlords are thieves (and you don't actually sound like the thieving sort TTRTR, so despite your channel vision I forgive you!!!) but the ones that are always take the moral high ground about their rights (over somebody elses money), which makes it difficult to sort out the wheat from the chaff. (EDIT: if the guy tried to keep it and were challenged he would probably tell you but he needs something to cover the void period. And that is the sort of thinking amongst BTL amaeturs. Its a business. DOH. YOu should have built that into the rent!!!) And why I would prefer to rent from a reputable professional owner (not just the letting agents. They just hand it on at the first site of trouble).

Edited December 3, 2005 by Elizabeth

[theChuz]

I hope the repairs needed aren't such that you injure yourself due to neglect of repair.

do be very very careful on the steps, it would be a nightmare if you slipped on them and had to take time of work supported by a doctors note because of back pain.

Edited December 3, 2005 by theChuz

[BuyingBear]

Yes I've had that offer before. I turned them down. You never know where the money comes from and a checkable references is all the better. Have to be careful of who you're dealing with when you let such a valuable asset to a stranger you know.....

Hrm, I thought renting property was akin to the security of a deposit account... the yields are certainly the same if not less, so in that sense renting out property should be an even more secure return.

[Time to raise the rents.]

I don't understand TTRTR. If the property is in the same condition (less normal wear and tear) its a nil balance equation. In this case the place sounds better, but thats just what it cost extra to a tenant with a lazy landlord for pride in their home. Unless the landlord intends to keep the bond for a little extra squeeze (as happens all the time - I was warned about this and ignored it to my peril) then they have nothing to gain by collecting the last months rent except that they have to pay out a months rent for the bond.

I repeat ITS A NIL BALANCE EQUATION. 990 - 990 = 0

From the level of anger from the landlard at the very thought of not getting that extra months rent I would expect the guy to try to keep the bond. Then the tenant would have to take him to court which takes months (and all the while the landlord is collecting the interest not much on one bond, but a nice little squeeze on 10) and is such a pain in the butt that we tenants can't get to doing it (Since we tend to be PAYE and that is a couple of days holidays and flexi lost in court and with legal appointments (so its cost us time to the equivalent of say 300 quid that will never be recouped) and I mean, where do you find a lawyer). The landlord in this case has NOTHING TO GAIN from the extra rent. All it means is that they will have to write another cheque - if they ever intended to in the first place.

Not all landlords are thieves (and you don't actually sound like the thieving sort TTRTR, so despite your channel vision I forgive you!!!) but the ones that are always take the moral high ground about their rights (over somebody elses money), which makes it difficult to sort out the wheat from the chaff. (EDIT: if the guy tried to keep it and were challenged he would probably tell you but he needs something to cover the void period. And that is the sort of thinking amongst BTL amaeturs. Its a business. DOH. YOu should have built that into the rent!!!) And why I would prefer to rent from a reputable professional owner (not just the letting agents. They just hand it on at the first site of trouble).

Apart from a few pounds agreed between me and my tenants for agreed damage, I have never held any deposit back, I have even been willing to come to the final inspection with cash if the tenants needed me to.

But the problem isn't the equation between last months rent minus deposit. The problem is when you arrive at the leaving date, what if the tenant for some reason decides they're unable to leave? The landlord then has very little to negotiate with and depends on the tenant being a good character, but how could they be a good character if they failed to pay the last months rent?

Not to mention the stress caused by the landlord knowing for the last month that they're no longer able to trust their tenant because their tenant has failed to live up to the CONTRACT they signed.

[since the beginning]

Yes I've had that offer before. I turned them down. You never know where the money comes from and a checkable references is all the better. Have to be careful of who you're dealing with when you let such a valuable asset to a stranger you know.....

So you can only rent to the exisitng pool of renters?

[Time to raise the rents.]

You won't be letting to any STR rif-raf then. We don't have references, not having rented .

Nor are STR's reliable tenants. My own sister has been renting for 3 months & has now told her landlord she'll be moving out in 3 months because she's buying again.

I bet the landlord regrets taking her now.

So you can only rent to the exisitng pool of renters?

What?

I just aren't interested in people's stories of cash in the bank willing to pay, but no references.

Hrm, I thought renting property was akin to the security of a deposit account... the yields are certainly the same if not less, so in that sense renting out property should be an even more secure return.

Not when you find yourself with a dodgy tenant like RRP.

[Bear Goggles]

I think TTRTR's got a point. If you're a professional landlord then your ideal tenant is someone who has good references and isn't likely to buy any time soon. (So your sister's an STR then eh? haven't seen you mention that before!)

But it works both ways. If you are renting it makes sense to know that your landlord is reliable. I don't know what RRP's circumstances are, but I would always advise people to sound out their landlord before renting. Even get 'references' if you can.

There are a lot of crooks and muppets out there, and ex-mortgage advisers travelling the world have a high probability of meeting both of those criteria.

My top tips are: Avoid letting agencies (parasitic middlemen) and rent from someone with more than one property who has been in the game for a long time.

This case highlights the difficulties of dealing with amateurs - Stick with the professionals.

[Cheston Pelvis]

I think people are being a little too harsh on agents here. True they are little more than middlemen but that can work in the tenant's favour as there is then a degree of separation between owner and tenant.

In the two times I have rented from a private landlord I have been stuffed when it comes to claiming back the damage deposit. In both cases the term "wear and tear" meant very different things in the eyes of both parties. (One landlord even tried to moan about the dents their bloody furniture had made in the new carpet!) And as for the laziness... sheesh! The repairs necessary to fix a leaky waste water pipe in a dining room ceiling took long enough to ruin the paint/plasterwork to a degree where it was better for the owner to redo the whole ceiling when we left - can guess where the bill for that was tacked on? Oh no. Not on my watch, buddy!

On the other hand whenever I have left a property run through an agency I have always received my deposit back in full. There just wasn't any of this house-proud "Oh look, there's a cobweb on the coving" twaddle rolled out to justify getting a cleaner in - just a quick "thank you very much, here's your cheque" and rush the next tenants in! Any repairs or replacement appliances were also quickly dealt with, none of this "Oh I'll be passing through in a fortnight's time. I'll have a look at it then..." nonsense to avoid paying for a professional to do the job there and then.

Of course I accept I may have been lucky in my choice of agents. For example, I fully expect to get back the deposit from our current gaff as we're on very good terms with our agent (being her first client helps!).

Kind regards,

Cheston.

[Converted Lurker]

I rented and found myself in a similar situation 10 years ago, not much has changed, we had an ast also. When approaching the final month I approached my then reasonable landlord and explained that we needed to complete on the house we were buying, so if it was OK with him we didn`t pay the final months rent as it would help or `ickle cash flow and he keep he deposit. Took a nano second to say yes. We`d rented there fo 18 months, always paid on time, kept it like a new pin which probably helped.

For your LL to overeact so much indicates that they were going to stiff you IMHO.

If they issue procedings and you go to CC (which would take a couple of months) the judge would mediate, by which time you would have left and they would have had all the money they were entitled to. They would simply be wasting more money chasing you. What a pair of small time nomark twats, what you propose is entirely reasonable.