interestrateripoff Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-28679674 There are big changes coming to the national accounts next month, writes Anthony Reuben. I've already written about how illegal drugs and prostitution are going to be included in the calculation of gross domestic product (GDP), which is the measure of all the goods and services produced by an economy. Another of the changes is to the treatment of "military weapons of destruction and the equipment needed to deliver them". In the past, government spending on weapons was considered to be just consumption by governments - from next month some of it will count as an investment. That increased government investment in things like ships, aircraft and tanks will add £3.5bn to GDP for 2009, which is the most recent year for which we have been given figures so far. The thing is, some of these weapons are very expensive. The recently named HMS Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier is expected to cost about £6.2bn. Clearly, we hope this doesn't happen, but if, in some future conflict, it were to be sunk, would that knock 1.6% off that quarter's GDP? Not necessarily, according to the specialists at the Office for National Statistics (ONS). Remember, counting weapons as government investments is new stuff to the statisticians - they released a report on how they planned to treat them. If the ship were to be sold then they would take account of that straight away. But at the moment, the model does not take account of catastrophic losses, so the ship would continue to be written off gradually over its theoretical 20-year lifespan. But they say that if the loss were really big (like the loss of an aircraft carrier) they might have to adjust the model to take that into account, which would mean there would be a big hit to GDP. It's an excellent example of how the thinking about GDP is developing to embrace the changes. In the first world war the dreadnoughts where never really sent to sea apart from Jutland as neither side could afford to risk losing them as it would possible mean the loss of the war. So an aircraft carrier is now a fecking investment!!! I'd love to know how it's going to add to our productivity!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 If a British aircraft carrier is sunk I doubt any of us would be terribly concerned about the tediously dull method of accounting for its loss. We'd most likely have rather more pressing concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Sadman Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I think denninger or mish was blogging on the similar gdp 'enhancements' in the US...noting stuff like this is already counted as production, and the new method basically double counts a shed load of stuff. Seems the new normal, just invent growth now lying about inflation has gone about as far as it can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) It'll be interesting to see how they calculate/demonstrate return on investment. Edited August 12, 2014 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Anything they can do to shave another tenth off the primary deficit and maintain the facade of recovereh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 not forgetting that each and every spend leading up to the final "product", including the sale of treasuries to the Banks to pay for the thing, are all added to the GDP Triple accounting all round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Clutching at straws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reck B Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 (edited) The concept of 'GDP' is just an utter, utter nonsense and I can't quite believe why it's given the level of importance it is, considering; 1) No 2 countries measure GDP in the same way, rendering it useless as a comparative tool 2) Stuff is randomly added, rendering it useless when using it when comparing GDP to previous periods 3) A significant wedge (over 10%) of GDP is nothing but the mirage that is 'Imputed Rent' (how much a houseowner would pay to rent their home in some strange parallel universe - :lol:WTF??!!)... This figure is being completely abused and has risen from 6% in 2007 4) £5 billion added for prostitution. (Presumably then, there should be 'imputed prostitution' every time someone masturbates?) Feel free to 'ONS' this list (add anything you feel like to it) Considering the level of manipulation available, I wonder how it's ever possible to enter a recession. Edited August 13, 2014 by Reck B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Don't see what the problem with this is. If you look at it from the perspective that an aircraft carrier is essential for the country to continue business, then surely it should be accounted for in the same way as any business asset. Plus the fact military hardware is often sold off. If you don't account for it in the first place where does the revenue come from, out of the sky ? For examples in aircraft carriers look at HMS Hermes. Pointless mouth foaming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 (edited) The concept of 'GDP' is just an utter, utter nonsense and I can't quite believe why it's given the level of importance it is, considering; 1) No 2 countries measure GDP in the same way, rendering it useless as a comparative tool 2) Stuff is randomly added, rendering it useless when using it when comparing GDP to previous periods 3) A significant wedge (over 10%) of GDP is nothing but the mirage that is 'Imputed Rent' (how much a houseowner would pay to rent their home in some strange parallel universe - :lol:WTF??!!)... This figure is being completely abused and has risen from 6% in 2007 4) £5 billion added for prostitution. (Presumably then, there should be 'imputed prostitution' every time someone masturbates?) Feel free to 'ONS' this list (add anything you feel like to it) Considering the level of manipulation available, I wonder how it's ever possible to enter a recession. Since the latest economic calamity and now that they've revealed their latest extremes for manipulating the GDP figure which is now apparently the sole gauge to measure recovery then perhaps there won't be another statistical recession. Of course if recovery continues to be measured using the GDP as currently formulated then the real UK economy will continue to progress further and further downhill and well beyond the current level of devastation even if there's no statistical recession. Also if the UK never had a recession then there wouldn't be an excuse to give the bankers bailout money funded by the taxpayer so maybe the current GDP as it is will in time be changed so that excuse will still be available to them. Edited August 13, 2014 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justthisbloke Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 4) £5 billion added for prostitution. (Presumably then, there should be 'imputed prostitution' every time someone masturbates?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Don't see what the problem with this is. If you look at it from the perspective that an aircraft carrier is essential for the country to continue business, then surely it should be accounted for in the same way as any business asset. Plus the fact military hardware is often sold off. If you don't account for it in the first place where does the revenue come from, out of the sky ? For examples in aircraft carriers look at HMS Hermes. Pointless mouth foaming. because, assets appear on a balance sheet, not a Profit and Loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted February 12, 2017 Author Share Posted February 12, 2017 How the Royal Navy is all at sea over an appeal to ancient mariners to crew its new £6.2 billion aircraft carriers Britain's two new £6.2 billion aircraft carriers are suffering from a manpower crisis because the Navy lacks enough sailors to crew the vessels - so they're recruiting ex-sailors aged 60 and above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewingGrass Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 At least they will know where the golden rivet is at the bottom of the ship so they can show all the new sailors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 hour ago, interestrateripoff said: How the Royal Navy is all at sea over an appeal to ancient mariners to crew its new £6.2 billion aircraft carriers Britain's two new £6.2 billion aircraft carriers are suffering from a manpower crisis because the Navy lacks enough sailors to crew the vessels - so they're recruiting ex-sailors aged 60 and above. Mr Mannering ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
200p Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I'm surprised they haven't added the weather to GDP. When it rains - it's free stuff into our reservoirs. Also how much sunshine - that could be converted to solar energy. Etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otters Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Aircraft carriers only go up in value don't you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 What about submarines? They are constantly under water. Quote UK's entire fleet of hunter-killer submarines out of action Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honkydonkey Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Can't go wrong with steel and rivets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Not to mention the fact that the navy is about to run out of anti-ship missiles. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/15/royal-navy-to-lose-anti-ship-missiles-and-be-left-only-with-guns/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Hug Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 On 8/13/2014 at 10:26 AM, Reck B said: 4) £5 billion added for prostitution. (Presumably then, there should be 'imputed prostitution' every time someone masturbates?) Stroke of genius. That could double our GDP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nome Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Don't forget that every time an oil tanker runs aground the resultant clean up all adds to our GDP... We should all do like the wreckers of the olden days and lure them onto our coastline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dames Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 And dont forget , theyre not making land .....ing strips anymore. I,ll get my coat. D. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashinmattress Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 20 hours ago, interestrateripoff said: How the Royal Navy is all at sea over an appeal to ancient mariners to crew its new £6.2 billion aircraft carriers Britain's two new £6.2 billion aircraft carriers are suffering from a manpower crisis because the Navy lacks enough sailors to crew the vessels - so they're recruiting ex-sailors aged 60 and above. Not to many old school stokers will be qualifying though. A career being ankle deep in diesel and bilge and the associated fumes doesn't carry over into a healthy retirement. Many I know are already having serious health issues in their 40's and 50's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noallegiance Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 All smells of WWII style enemy-focused propaganda to me. "Oh look how weak we are! We've only got spud guns and sucker-tipped children's toy bow and arrows". Come in close and then BAM! "Well, we found a couple of hundred Exocet missiles at the back of the shed last week". If government truly controls meaningful media output, then the kind of stories are obvious bait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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