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Sancho Panza

Meet "mccashier" Your $15.00 Per Hour Mcdonald's Worker Replacement

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Mish 7/8/14

'But if you are not more cost effective that that machine, then not only do you not make $15, you do not have a job at all.

That machine is the not so distant replacement for cashiers demanding more and more pay.

A Reddit comment says the cashiers at this McDonald's were replaced by machines.

Comments indicate the store is the company owned McDonald's Innovation Center at 1253 N Schmidt Rd, Romeoville, IL 60446, United States.

Any readers care to check that out?

Math, Not Counting Benefits

  • For a location open 24 hours: The cost of human cashiers, not counting benefits, $15/hour * 24 hours * 365 days/year = $131,400
  • For a location open 6AM to Midnight: $15/hour * 18 hours * 365 = $98,550.

For the machine to be cost effective, all it needs to do is cost less than $100,000 a year to buy and maintain.

By the way, it won't just be McDonald's that eliminates cashiers. Expect to see machines like that everywhere. Basic cost-accounting math demands that outcome.'

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And these people will then go and do what as a job? Cutting costs sounds great but as Ford pointed out if your workers don't earn enough to buy the product who are you going to sell too? Here they aren't employing the people who'll buy the food?

Will the US be issuing McFood stamps so those without a job can buy at McDonalds?

Edited by interestrateripoff

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And these people will then go and do what as a job? Cutting costs sounds great but as Ford pointed out if your workers don't earn enough to buy the product who are you going to sell too? Here they aren't employing the people who'll buy the food?

Will the US be issuing McFood stamps so those without a job can buy at McDonalds?

uhuh. Thats what the luddites were saying hundreds of years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_Riots

Look. This is a GOOD thing, not a bad one. Who knows what these people will do. Thats the magic of the market and whats so great about it. We dont know. Its not governments job to create jobs, its not companies job. Its the market and only the market that decides what jobs should exist. These jobs are akin to the subsistence farm labourer jobs of 200 years ago. These people are being liberated to do more productive things. If government stopped interfering, and banks stopped stealing, given it only requires a tenth of the employees to staff a car factory that it took 40 years ago, we'd each probably have our own yacht, swimming pool, helicopter and so on. These burger flippers would be line managers over robots making those yachts, swimming pools and helicopters.

Of all the things I fear for the future...privacy concerns, politicians, islam, banksters, the one thing I do not fear is people losing crap jobs, or, indeed, these absurd notions that capitalism will destroy itself because of its own cold efficiency.

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  1. guaranteed no spit or poop on your burger...

It just takes the order, it doesn't make the burger. That's still left to the resentful human being.

I'm pretty sure electronic cashiers already exist in my local Tesco. The world hasn't ended yet.

(Although unexpected items have ended up in the bagging area.)

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uhuh. Thats what the luddites were saying hundreds of years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_Riots

Look. This is a GOOD thing, not a bad one. Who knows what these people will do. Thats the magic of the market and whats so great about it. We dont know. Its not governments job to create jobs, its not companies job. Its the market and only the market that decides what jobs should exist. These jobs are akin to the subsistence farm labourer jobs of 200 years ago. These people are being liberated to do more productive things. If government stopped interfering, and banks stopped stealing, given it only requires a tenth of the employees to staff a car factory that it took 40 years ago, we'd each probably have our own yacht, swimming pool, helicopter and so on. These burger flippers would be line managers over robots making those yachts, swimming pools and helicopters.

Of all the things I fear for the future...privacy concerns, politicians, islam, banksters, the one thing I do not fear is people losing crap jobs, or, indeed, these absurd notions that capitalism will destroy itself because of its own cold efficiency.

Great theory which hinges on your next job not being a $500 plane ride away.

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it doesn't make the burger. That's still left to the resentful human being.

Not for long. Prototypes already exist for a machine that can make burgers.

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Luddites were employed when the factories went on to generate more profit and income that could employ more in the rest of the production / distribution chain.

Our productivity is falling. Also , the large rump of jobs created are in the service sector, at the low level at that in many cases - witness the amount of cheap unskilled labour imported.

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And these people will then go and do what as a job? Cutting costs sounds great but as Ford pointed out if your workers don't earn enough to buy the product who are you going to sell too? Here they aren't employing the people who'll buy the food?

Okay, there aren't enough 40-hours-per-week jobs for everyone.

Time for the the three/two day working week?

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By the way, it won't just be McDonald's that eliminates cashiers. Expect to see machines like that everywhere. Basic cost-accounting math demands that outcome.'

I've used these machines in France.

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I wonder when the penny will drop and there will be a consensus in understanding that there just isn't enough meaningful productive work to go around for every able bodied working age adult.

Citizens Dividend and Land Value Tax?

Just imagine how many parasitical jobs in the welfare\benefits and accounting\finance sector will be destroyed if these two innovations were introduced.

3 day working week anyone?

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Okay, there aren't enough 40-hours-per-week jobs for everyone.

Time for the the three/two day working week?

Citizens wage is the answer - with motivated people working whatever hours/days suit.

There also needs to be a rule stipulating 'No local trading without taxation' for multinationals.

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uhuh. Thats what the luddites were saying hundreds of years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_Riots

Look. This is a GOOD thing, not a bad one. Who knows what these people will do. Thats the magic of the market and whats so great about it. We dont know. Its not governments job to create jobs, its not companies job. Its the market and only the market that decides what jobs should exist. These jobs are akin to the subsistence farm labourer jobs of 200 years ago. These people are being liberated to do more productive things. If government stopped interfering, and banks stopped stealing, given it only requires a tenth of the employees to staff a car factory that it took 40 years ago, we'd each probably have our own yacht, swimming pool, helicopter and so on. These burger flippers would be line managers over robots making those yachts, swimming pools and helicopters.

Of all the things I fear for the future...privacy concerns, politicians, islam, banksters, the one thing I do not fear is people losing crap jobs, or, indeed, these absurd notions that capitalism will destroy itself because of its own cold efficiency.

The luddite theory sounds great in theory but when you actually look at what has happened and is happening it all falls apart.

People were initially employed wholesale in the extractive industries - the primary sector. Technology and productivity came along and the numbers working in it shrank many-fold. That then enabled expansion of the manufacturing sector.

But then technology, mechanization and robots came along and the numbers employed in manufacturing also shrank.

That led to the tertiary and quaternary sector dominated economies of the 90's and 2000's. The tertiary sector being services and quaternary sector being intellectual activities such as education.

But now those final two sectors are being mechanized and computerized also.

That leads to the fundamental flaw in the anti-luddite argument - there are no higher sectors left for workers to move into.

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Citizens wage is the answer - with motivated people working whatever hours/days suit.

Not gonna happen. No-one in their right mind is going to work to run a factory just to give the products away to people who do nothing productive (either directly, or by giving away their wages so others can 'buy' those products).

As mentioned above, the real problem is that government and their cronies have sucked up all the benefits of increased productivity, to the point where even people who do have productive jobs can't afford to live decently.

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Not gonna happen. No-one in their right mind is going to work to run a factory just to give the products away to people who do nothing productive (either directly, or by giving away their wages so others can 'buy' those products).

As mentioned above, the real problem is that government and their cronies have sucked up all the benefits of increased productivity, to the point where even people who do have productive jobs can't afford to live decently.

That pretty much describes the situation of most paid employees whose income supports the benefits system.

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That pretty much describes the situation of most paid employees whose income supports the benefits system.

Except, in the glorious Citizen's Income future, 99% of the population would be on welfare, while 1% actually did something productive. Ain't gonna happen.

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The luddite theory sounds great in theory but when you actually look at what has happened and is happening it all falls apart.

People were initially employed wholesale in the extractive industries - the primary sector. Technology and productivity came along and the numbers working in it shrank many-fold. That then enabled expansion of the manufacturing sector.

But then technology, mechanization and robots came along and the numbers employed in manufacturing also shrank.

That led to the tertiary and quaternary sector dominated economies of the 90's and 2000's. The tertiary sector being services and quaternary sector being intellectual activities such as education.

But now those final two sectors are being mechanized and computerized also.

That leads to the fundamental flaw in the anti-luddite argument - there are no higher sectors left for workers to move into.

People still work in farming, and all those other 'mechanized' industries, just one person does the work 500 people used to do.

Imagine all the labour that could be freed up if we also replaced most services with robots. Colonizing space would no longer be a pipe dream. There is so much research needed to be done in other fields, such as making death a choice rather than a certainty and other bio fields. One person might have responsibility for controlling thousands of robots terraforming mars, another alpha centuri or some far flung planet.

Human desires are unlimited, and, even with mechanization, the amount of future jobs is also unlimited. I cant believe people really believe this is the height of human achievement.

I repeat, job destruction is a good thing. I'd go further and say its the best of things, and the only reason that you and I aren't shivering in some cave somewhere wallowing in our own faeces on the brink of starvation. Companies should be rewarded for destroying jobs, not vilified.

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Nobody is forced to buy from Mcdonalds.

If you don't like being served by robots, don't give them your money, they'll go bust.

Simples.

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Except, in the glorious Citizen's Income future, 99% of the population would be on welfare, while 1% actually did something productive. Ain't gonna happen.

Well, in that case, most companies will collapse. The Elites can't eat 100 burgers a day, run 20 Vauxhall Corsas or dry clean 200 suits a day. And the rest of the population cannot afford them. So 98% of all manufacturing and service companies will fold. The only 'industries' left will be luxury goods and services, food banks and emergency shelters. Of course constant wars, revolutions or famines would probably have knocked the world back into the dark ages long before that end game.

A great vision of yours brought about by your stubborn refusal to disengage the relationship between productive work and income. Are you a Tory?

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Well, in that case, most companies will collapse. The Elites can't eat 100 burgers a day, run 20 Vauxhall Corsas or dry clean 200 suits a day. And the rest of the population cannot afford them. So 98% of all manufacturing and service companies will fold. The only 'industries' left will be luxury goods and services, food banks and emergency shelters. Of course constant wars, revolutions or famines would probably have knocked the world back into the dark ages long before that end game.

A great vision of yours brought about by your stubborn refusal to disengage the relationship between productive work and income. Are you a Tory?

Epic post.

The problem is the ideological fanatics that live and die by their ideology no matter the consequences of their beliefs when played out. He lives in a world of takers and makers, producers and scroungers. He'd happily wreck everything just so long as his system of ideology was imposed. Your reply illustrates that point excellently.

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The luddites error was in trying to deny the reality that technology was going to take their jobs.

So those who claim that technology will never replace human workers on a mass scale are themselves luddites because they share the same delusion.

The reason that we have to pay people to work is because most jobs are boring- and they are boring because they are for the most part repetitive and routine.

And we know that computers are very good at doing things that are repetitive and routine.

So unless we imagine that for some reason technology will just stop advancing there's no reason to think that a lot of jobs currently done by humans will not in future be done by machines.

The argument that human desires are unlimited is probably true- but human resources are not- so the issue is not demand alone, it's effective demand. And a man whose job has been replaced by a machine represents an effective demand of zero- he has no income.

The sad fact is that the average human being of today is hardly much smarter than the average human of 500 years ago- compare and contrast to the speed with which computers have evolved over the past 50 years- it's the difference between a flat line and a rising exponential curve- which one would you bet on to win in the long run?

There is one area however that I think humans will always have an edge over machines- and that is as consumers. So it may turn out that the real value added that humans bring to the party in future will not be their inferior productive capability but in the endless variety and creative inspiration of their desires.

Assuming they have the means to pay of course- and that is where capitalism does hit a wall- it cannot process the reality that workers and consumers are the same thing. The desire to eliminate wage costs while maximizing profits only makes sense on the level of individual enterprise- on the aggregate level it cannot work- and the more powerful the technology gets the more this contradiction is revealed.

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