Bruce Banner Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) As a tenant it is already your responsibility to deduct the tax, if your landlord is not a UK resident. So the president is already set. More details about the exceptions of Non-resident landlords can be found here: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/nr-landlords.htm That doesn't make it right. Using private individuals as unpaid tax collectors is just wrong, if it's through a letting agent and transparent to the tenant it's another matter. How can a tenant be expected to ascertain the residency status of a landlord? How is a tenant supposed to know that they are responsible for the collection of the landlord's tax? Assuming that the tenant is aware of this daft law and deducts the tax from the rent paid to the landlord, is the tenant expected to write a cheque to HMRC, buy an envelope and stamp and take it to the post office? If ever there was an asinine law, this is it! Edited August 4, 2014 by Bruce Banner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sPinwheel Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 How can a tenant be expected to ascertain the residency status of a landlord? Isn't the landlords name and address usually on the tenancy agreement? Its always been on mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Isn't the landlords name and address usually on the tenancy agreement? Its always been on mine. That could be a convenience address ie a UK expat using the address of a relative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little fish Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 If HMRC caught 25 every time they announced this, they'd have them all by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurzel Of Highbridge Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Isn't the landlords name and address usually on the tenancy agreement? Its always been on mine. It's a requirement, otherwise the tenancy is invalid and you wouldn't have to pay any tax or rent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) If HMRC caught 25 every time they announced this, they'd have them all by now. Quite. HMRC usually over estimates how much money is actually being withheld though. They assume everyone is on the fiddle somewhere; somehow. However their job is not to take 100% of the possible yield but to bring in enough cash with the least resources. If they could catch 1 in 5 landlords who are evading tax word would go around and only the most foolhardy, or clever, would avoid making a declaration. Their current strategy seems to be sending out a scatter gun of letters to people they think are secret landlords, be interesting to see if this works. They are only contacting 4% of the people they believe are secret landlords, doesn't seem like much of an effort to me. How do they identify which properties are being rented and by whom? The rental agencies would be the first port of call - do the rental agencies have landlords NI numbers? If not, why not? (I mention NI numbers because using real names is fraught with problems). The privately rented properties are going to be much harder to find. Who owns the property? Where do they live? Who is living in the property? The data is in land registry and council tax records but it is a complicated mining job. Does the person who owns the property pay tax on rental income? I suspect they have only sent letters to the very lowest hanging fruit. Yes you can talk about Big Data, data mining, silos, blah blah blah and get in your highly paid bullshitters from Crapita but it will still be very hard to reconcile all of the information to make an accurate assessment of even a portion of the secret landlords. Edited August 4, 2014 by davidg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeutonicKnight Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Hi this is my first post In Germany, if you buy any property, the Land Registry will AUTOMATICALLY inform the tax authority, who will then send you a form to declare whether you will be living there (as primary residence) or not. Thus because they have joined up thinking unlike our useless system - in Germany you CANNOT avoid tax on BTL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Isn't the landlords name and address usually on the tenancy agreement? Its always been on mine. Hmmmm. I'm thinking now of a place I used to live. My landlords' (Mr and Mrs) name and address were indeed on the agreement. They remained unchanged as the landlords divorced, and she became my sole landlady. They further remained unchanged as she moved back to her native Switzerland. Remind me again how a tenant is supposed to follow such intricacies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurzel Of Highbridge Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Time to draft 650 letters to HMRC about the tax dodgers in westminster. I am sure they would be obliged to investigate any accusations of tax dodging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blod Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Time to draft 650 letters to HMRC about the tax dodgers in westminster. I am sure they would be obliged to investigate any accusations of tax dodging. Or two FOI requests, one for how many MPs have been checked and the other how many landlords have responded / been prosecuted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quicken Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Hi this is my first post In Germany, if you buy any property, the Land Registry will AUTOMATICALLY inform the tax authority, who will then send you a form to declare whether you will be living there (as primary residence) or not. Thus because they have joined up thinking unlike our useless system - in Germany you CANNOT avoid tax on BTL. Welcome TK. That sounds sensible, but it doesn't cover change of use - the 'accidental landlord' syndrome. How is that handled in Deutschland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahBell Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Isn't the landlords name and address usually on the tenancy agreement? Its always been on mine. And if it's not you don't have to pay rent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeeky Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 And if it's not you don't have to pay rent. You don't have to pay the landlord rent at that point in time. You are meant to put the money to one side and all rent will (including back payments) has to be paid once the information is provided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/10999633/HMRC-turns-up-heat-on-landlords.html A good news story. Is there a form to fill in if you're a tenant of a landlord who did not use an agency, so may be under the hmrc radar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little fish Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 We assume stupidity and incompetence. I can only assume it is deliberate, it is so obvious. Yep. So many obvious ways to track and/or monitor them that it has to be deliberate. Is there a form to fill in if you're a tenant of a landlord who did not use an agency, so may be under the hmrc radar? Don't think there is a specific form as such but any body can use this https://online.hmrc.gov.uk/shortforms/form/TEH_IRF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeTrader Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) HMRC has today updated its published list of deliberate tax defaulters who have evaded an amount of tax in excess of £25,000 (Section 94 of the Finance Act 2009 gave HMRC authority to do this).No property investors have been listed this time (although the evaded tax could possibly relate to property income). Details of deliberate tax defaulters Edit: for clarity Edited August 21, 2014 by FreeTrader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hp72 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 HMRC has today updated its published list of deliberate tax defaulters who have evaded an amount of tax in excess of £25,000 (Section 94 of the Finance Act 2009 gave HMRC authority to do this). No property investors have been listed this time (although the evaded tax could possibly relate to property income). Details of deliberate tax defaulters Edit: for clarity There are several: Property Rental Restaurant and Property Income Income from Property Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeTrader Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 There are several: Property Rental Restaurant and Property Income Income from Property I meant in the latest 21/08/14 update - additional entries. Apologies - my edit for clarity obviously wasn't good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 There are several: Property Rental Restaurant and Property Income Income from Property One of them a Mr Johal, has resigned from his sole directorship from a car hire company...looks like at cursory glance he also had property too all undeclared.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justthisbloke Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Sorry, but what is this list of trivial amounts? Is this the real magnitude of tax dodging? I mean, some of the itemised amounts are almost de minimis; £383.67 for instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeTrader Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Sorry, but what is this list of trivial amounts? Is this the real magnitude of tax dodging? I mean, some of the itemised amounts are almost de minimis; £383.67 for instance. Yes, it does seems surprisngly sparse. Far from being a deterrent, it's more like a green light. One of them a Mr Johal, has resigned from his sole directorship from a car hire company...looks like at cursory glance he also had property too all undeclared.. He has a namesake who has also made the news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve99 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 The bankers wont like this, will curb their mortgage growth, curently centred on BTL parasites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bowman Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Sorry, but what is this list of trivial amounts? Is this the real magnitude of tax dodging? I mean, some of the itemised amounts are almost de minimis; £383.67 for instance. +1 what seems to have escaped everyone's attention this is pure bully boy tactics aimed at the small guy. It stinks frankly and the fact that we are debating which small timer should be picked on must be music to the ears of the .1% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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