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Bruce Banner

Police To Seize Mobiles In Every Car Crash

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Mail headline tomorrow.

Reviewers on BBC News were unanimous that this would be a good idea. Since when has it been illegal to carry a phone in your car, or use it if you have hands free?

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Texting whilst driving is hugely more dangerous than drink driving.

Do they have software to capture the state and immediate previous use of the phone so they can return them quickly?

The are too many idiots using phones whilst driving.

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Texting whilst driving is hugely more dangerous than drink driving.

Do they have software to capture the state and immediate previous use of the phone so they can return them quickly?

The are too many idiots using phones whilst driving.

They can already see your phone usage from your service providers records.

Also, you can send a text using speech recognition on hands free, I could do it without taking my phone out of my pocket, would this be illegal? Should this be illegal?

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They can already see your phone usage from your service providers records.

Also, you can send a text using speech recognition on hands free, I could do it without taking my phone out of my pocket, would this be illegal? Should this be illegal?

No, and I'm none too impressed by the thought of police routinely taking phones.

But SarahBell is right and I see people *not* using handsfree or speech to text every day. I see examples of knob-end maneuvering by knob-ends using phones which could involve me as a pedestrian, if I didn't have my wits about me, at least a couple of times a week.

Anyway, would it be really for every crash? Do police get involved in all road accidents these days, or just the ones where someone's been killed or injured?

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They can already see your phone usage from your service providers records.

Also, you can send a text using speech recognition on hands free, I could do it without taking my phone out of my pocket, would this be illegal? Should this be illegal?

Your concentration isn't all where it should be when in charge of a deadly weapon. On the other hand, if you're a passenger then no problem.

I presume this means the police will take them for just long enough to get information on whether the phone had been in use. As with any evidence, you return it once you've examined it. If a phone was in use, you start asking questions.

As for your provider's records, that'll be why they need to examine the phone, so they can ascertain your provider and tell the provider what phone you want records for. Though no provider's records will tell everything you might've been doing.

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No, and I'm none too impressed by the thought of police routinely taking phones.

But SarahBell is right and I see people *not* using handsfree or text to speech every day. I see examples of knob-end maneuvering by knob-ends using phones which could involve me as a pedestrian, if I didn't have my wits about me, at least a couple of times a week.

Anyway, would it be really for every crash? Do police get involved in all road accidents these days, or just the ones where someone's been killed or injured?

They said "In every car crash". Driving without due care and attention has always been an offence and using a phone without hands free is covered by that. Perhaps pens, pencils, maps, books, cigarettes, and anything else that could be a distraction when driving should also be covered and subject to seizure.

I'm not condoning texting when driving, but this is another step in the direction of a police state, the end justifying the means.

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Quite funny to read while on holiday..

Everyone here texting and driving, no seatbelts, kids in the back of pickups and boots of cars, probably half of them pissed as farts.

Different kind of view on the world here.. !

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Quite funny to read while on holiday..

Everyone here texting and driving, no seatbelts, kids in the back of pickups and boots of cars, probably half of them pissed as farts.

Different kind of view on the world here.. !

Have you gone to watch the Commonwealth Games?

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They can already see your phone usage from your service providers records.

Also, you can send a text using speech recognition on hands free, I could do it without taking my phone out of my pocket, would this be illegal? Should this be illegal?

If they just read the phone bill, they can only prove that the phone sent a text message 2 seconds before the accident. The driver could simply claim that his wife/son/dog had borrowed his phone that day.

By seizing the phone at the scene of the accident - and taking into account that most cars only ever carry one person - well, it becomes a lot easier to prove who sent the message.

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If they just read the phone bill, they can only prove that the phone sent a text message 2 seconds before the accident. The driver could simply claim that his wife/son/dog had borrowed his phone that day.

By seizing the phone at the scene of the accident - and taking into account that most cars only ever carry one person - well, it becomes a lot easier to prove who sent the message.

Being retired, I can't remember the last time I used my phone whilst driving, hands free or not. other than as a satnav.

If plod tried to seize my phone I'd be tempted to "accidentally" smash it to bits before handing it over, on principle, whether I'd been using it or not. Then I'd probably get done for failing to provide a working phone on the instructions of a police officer. Soon we'll all be fitted with microchips that upload our thoughts to the cloud.

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Being retired, I can't remember the last time I used my phone whilst driving, hands free or not. other than as a satnav.

If plod tried to seize my phone I'd be tempted to "accidentally" smash it to bits before handing it over, on principle, whether I'd been using it or not.

I currently don't run a car, travel a lot on foot and for me, as mentioned above, it is an issue.

Being, by inclination, libertarian in outlook I'd be happy if the police kept out of it when someone was texting and driving and, by the same token, kept out of it if I set about their vehicle with whatever came to hand on the basis that I was exercising the right of self-defence by incapacitating their car and deterring them from doing it again.

I'm game.

I'd be genuinely interested to hear what Injin or any other hardcore libertarian's take would be on this one.

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Quite funny to read while on holiday..

Everyone here texting and driving, no seatbelts, kids in the back of pickups and boots of cars, probably half of them pissed as farts.

Different kind of view on the world here.. !

Are you on holiday in the 1970's?

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The problem is the potential for mission creep. We know that the police have a long and problematic history of overstepping the balance between legitimate crime prevention/detection and unwarranted gathering of personal data/harassment. Stopping and searching all black people, arresting and charging that bloke who posted a joke message about blowing up an airport, you name it. The problem with this proposal is that what'll happen is that they'll develop some portable device that pretty much instantly, and on the spot, transfers a complete system image plus the contents of all flash memory storage onto police servers. From there it'll be examined by automated software .. and if you once, and once only several years ago, received a wrong number call from someone who was later done for watching kiddie porn, you can expect to have your door broken down at 6am and hauled off to the nick.

As others have pointed out, they can see your account records if they can show good reason to want to (and few would dispute that causing a road accident is good enough reason, though if I am minding my own business stopped at traffic lights and am suddenly rear-ended, that absolutely is not a good reason). If those records indicate that the phone was calling or texting around the time of the crash, then the police should have to get a magistrate's permission to seize anything further (either the handset itself, or more detailed data from the phone company). But just giving them carte blanche to datamine phones at will, with no checks or balances, is simply too dangerous: the police have a track record of abusing far less intrusive powers in the past.

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They can already see your phone usage from your service providers records.

Also, you can send a text using speech recognition on hands free, I could do it without taking my phone out of my pocket, would this be illegal? Should this be illegal?

They can see the phone usage but not whether you were hands free or not.

I do think a few successful prosecutions for arses using their phones whilst driving needs to happen.

Fine them maybe. That'll soon solve the deficit.

Can you concentrate as well on driving whilst doing that?

There's some research somewhere that shows it's a distraction from driving

http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/info/mobile_phone_report.pdf

It found that a driver’s reaction times slowed by 46% when he or she was making a call on a hand-held mobile, by 37% when texting while driving and by 27% during hands-free calls.

http://www.which.co.uk/documents/pdf/mobiles-how-we-measued-up-pdf-296406.pdf

Handsfree worse than being drunk.

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As others have pointed out, they can see your account records if they can show good reason to want to (and few would dispute that causing a road accident is good enough reason, though if I am minding my own business stopped at traffic lights and am suddenly rear-ended, that absolutely is not a good reason). If those records indicate that the phone was calling or texting around the time of the crash, then the police should have to get a magistrate's permission to seize anything further (either the handset itself, or more detailed data from the phone company). But just giving them carte blanche to datamine phones at will, with no checks or balances, is simply too dangerous: the police have a track record of abusing far less intrusive powers in the past.

You can throw away your phone, factory reset.

They need a way of instantly and accurately recording whether the phone was being used handsfree or not.

Of course the other option would be to ban hands free use and then any text or call you sent that led to an accident would meant you broke the law.

Perhaps thats the sensible way of doing it.

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Best to have a short wave transceiver, rather than a cellphone! Nobody will track you!

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The problem is the potential for mission creep. We know that the police have a long and problematic history of overstepping the balance between legitimate crime prevention/detection and unwarranted gathering of personal data/harassment. Stopping and searching all black people, arresting and charging that bloke who posted a joke message about blowing up an airport, you name it. The problem with this proposal is that what'll happen is that they'll develop some portable device that pretty much instantly, and on the spot, transfers a complete system image plus the contents of all flash memory storage onto police servers. From there it'll be examined by automated software .. and if you once, and once only several years ago, received a wrong number call from someone who was later done for watching kiddie porn, you can expect to have your door broken down at 6am and hauled off to the nick.

As others have pointed out, they can see your account records if they can show good reason to want to (and few would dispute that causing a road accident is good enough reason, though if I am minding my own business stopped at traffic lights and am suddenly rear-ended, that absolutely is not a good reason). If those records indicate that the phone was calling or texting around the time of the crash, then the police should have to get a magistrate's permission to seize anything further (either the handset itself, or more detailed data from the phone company). But just giving them carte blanche to datamine phones at will, with no checks or balances, is simply too dangerous: the police have a track record of abusing far less intrusive powers in the past.

Very nicely put.

It really worries me that so many people are willing to accept pretty much any intrusion into their privacy on the grounds of maintaining law and order.

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Guest eight

It found that a driver’s reaction times slowed by 46% when he or she was making a call on a hand-held mobile, by 37% when texting while driving and by 27% during hands-free calls.

http://www.which.co.uk/documents/pdf/mobiles-how-we-measued-up-pdf-296406.pdf

Handsfree worse than being drunk.

Have you seen the standard of the police's driving on these "Traffic Cops" style programmes while they are using their handheld radios? In fact the risks they take generally are quite shocking.

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Average plod isn't going to be able to gather any useful evidence at the scene of an accident which implies that phones will be confiscated for a period of time; days? Weeks? Whereupon a hunting expedition will commence on your data/ call history.
This is big brother stuff.

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Average plod isn't going to be able to gather any useful evidence at the scene of an accident which implies that phones with be confiscated for a period of time; days? Weeks? Whereupon a hunting expedition will commence on your data/ call history.

This is big brother stuff.

I'm afraid I just hate twats who drive whilst using their phone.

They're stupid moron arses who are a danger to everyone around them.

If it's more dangerous than drink driving then why do people condone it at all?

You wouldn't slap someone on the back and pour a drink down their throat before putting them in a car.

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Average plod isn't going to be able to gather any useful evidence at the scene of an accident which implies that phones with be confiscated for a period of time; days? Weeks? Whereupon a hunting expedition will commence on your data/ call history.

This is big brother stuff.

Here's the article...

DM: Police to seize mobiles in EVERY car crash: Crackdown on calls and texting at the wheel in bid to cut deaths by distracted drivers

And it does say this would be in the event of any crash, not just in situations where someone is killed or injured.

For this to work, that presumably means the police are empowered to search a vehicle, its driver and its occupants even in the event of the smallest ding.

Yes, this is Big Brother stuff but unlike some of the other emotive, wedge issues that have been employed to increase state powers, using a phone whilst driving really is dangerous.

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They can already see your phone usage from your service providers records.

Also, you can send a text using speech recognition on hands free, I could do it without taking my phone out of my pocket, would this be illegal? Should this be illegal?

Somebody had better tell Ford if so, cos they've been running a badly dubbed speech recognition ad for weeks and weeks.

F.O.R.G.I.V.E. T.H.E.M. T.H.E.Y. A.R.E. I.N.T.R.U.S.I.V.E. F.A.S.C.I.S.T. P.I.G.S.

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Here's the article...

DM: Police to seize mobiles in EVERY car crash: Crackdown on calls and texting at the wheel in bid to cut deaths by distracted drivers

And it does say this would be in the event of any crash, not just in situations where someone is killed of injured.

For this to work, that presumably means the police are empowered to search a vehicle, its driver and its occupants even in the event of the smallest ding.

Yes, this is Big Brother stuff but unlike some of the other emotive, wedge issues that has been employed to increase state powers, using a phone whilst driving really is dangerous.

What the DM says and what the Police CAN do are two different things.

Not every ding is reported, and the police certainly are not on the scene to see 99.9% of any crashes.

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