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Thought Crime - Its A Reality In The Uk Today

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Be afraid - be very afraid - this country has gone to new levels of being ******ed up.

Being threatened by the Police for something that has no proof and doesn't even have the ability to get into court ?

Beyond belief. :(

"Police to warn sex crime suspects"

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28383429

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My only sex crimes are due to the size of some of the burds I have banged - they should be arrested :)

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Not sure why you are calling this thought crime? It's about changing behaviour with a nudge from plod. (And I suppose if something has been brought to the police's attention, they are best placed to deliver the warning. If the guy still disputes the woman's version of events, that's another matter... but for many it could be a life-saver.)

Perhaps if Rolf had had a nudge when he was still young he could have changed his behaviour.

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This is no different to how the cops react to other types of not-quite-crime.

I once reported a nutter driver who threatened to kill me with his 4x4 if he ever saw me cycling on the road again. The police said that while it was impossible to prosecute[1], they'd pop round and have a chat with him. On subsequent commutes, I don't think I ever saw such perfect overtaking and roadcraft as I did from that blue 4x4.

[1] They said it'd be his word against mine - so no case. Presumably if he'd slapped my **** it would be different!

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Not sure why you are calling this thought crime? It's about changing behaviour with a nudge from plod. (And I suppose if something has been brought to the police's attention, they are best placed to deliver the warning. If the guy still disputes the woman's version of events, that's another matter... but for many it could be a life-saver.)

Perhaps if Rolf had had a nudge when he was still young he could have changed his behaviour.

Its thought crime because until something has evidence behind it - it should always be considered as such.

We shouldn't be going around just assuming that every allegation is true - should we . . ...

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This is no different to how the cops react to other types of not-quite-crime.

I once reported a nutter driver who threatened to kill me with his 4x4 if he ever saw me cycling on the road again. The police said that while it was impossible to prosecute[1], they'd pop round and have a chat with him. On subsequent commutes, I don't think I ever saw such perfect overtaking and roadcraft as I did from that blue 4x4.

[1] They said it'd be his word against mine - so no case. Presumably if he'd slapped my **** it would be different!

I await the first person to take them to court. And IMO they would be justified.

If I sent people threatening letters based on allegations with no evidence - I could be arrested. Why should the Plod be any different. . ...

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Not sure why you are calling this thought crime? It's about changing behaviour with a nudge from plod. (And I suppose if something has been brought to the police's attention, they are best placed to deliver the warning. If the guy still disputes the woman's version of events, that's another matter... but for many it could be a life-saver.)

Perhaps if Rolf had had a nudge when he was still young he could have changed his behaviour.

Do you really think that such people are capable of changing their behaviour? I don't.

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Its thought crime because until something has evidence behind it - it should always be considered as such.

We shouldn't be going around just assuming that every allegation is true - should we . . ...

Also, since when has 'innocent until proven guilty' been changed?

Interesting to know what they do in Scotland when such cases are found 'not proven' by the jury.

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Also, since when has 'innocent until proven guilty' been changed?

Interesting to know what they do in Scotland when such cases are found 'not proven' by the jury.

I think the innocent until proven guilty is gradually disappearing :(

Not proven us just a way for a jury to say " we are pretty sure they did it but not beyond reasonable doubt"

I don't agree with it.

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I think the innocent until proven guilty is gradually disappearing :(

Not proven us just a way for a jury to say " we are pretty sure they did it but not beyond reasonable doubt"

I don't agree with it.

We in Scotland say not proven means 'not guilty, but don't do it again.' Pragmatically better than a retrial after failure to make a majority verdict - the cheaper option.

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http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-28386836

This is a good example - "sexual assault" ?

Some drunk bloke grabs a burds **** by the sounds of it.

Not nice and must be scary for the burd - however I do feel classing everything like this as "sexual assault" is taking us down a dangerous route.

If it isn't sexual, or had no sexual intent, why didn't he grab her by the arms?

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If it isn't sexual, or had no sexual intent, why didn't he grab her by the arms?

When a burd lifts up a guys kilt in the grassmarket for a laugh - is it sexual assault ?

That's my issue with it - there is no level playing field.

Personally I think neither should take up much police time. Quick word in the ear - job done. That's what would have happened before 1990 or so I reckon

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http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-28386836

This is a good example - "sexual assault" ?

Some drunk bloke grabs a burds **** by the sounds of it.

Not nice and must be scary for the burd - however I do feel classing everything like this as "sexual assault" is taking us down a dangerous route.

She did have cuts and bruises - so a real assault, not just a pat on the bum. However, the string of celeb trials is to show us plebs that even thinking about a friendly pat on the arm could be construed as " sexual assault".

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She did have cuts and bruises - so a real assault, not just a pat on the bum. However, the string of celeb trials is to show us plebs that even thinking about a friendly pat on the arm could be construed as " sexual assault".

Fair dos - it probably was more serious than I thought - I do still think though as you say - seems everything can be sexual assault.

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There are two themes on this thread; does a warning constitute the implementation of thoughtcrime and, raised later, is there a "level playing field" when it comes to sexcrime?

Well, it's not thoughtcrime as portrayed in the novel - and warnings/chats are sensible policing. If I do have a concern, it's data retention and its use. We do have the unfortunate situation where databases of hearsay and, possibly malicious, gossip effect people's lives - with no test in court. That is wrong, IMO.

The second, "level playing field" point is dubious in its language; it's not a sporting match against two opposing teams. It's crime that effects individuals. However, I do agree that there's a lot inequity in how sex crime is dealt with. For example; it's almost the only crime that is now routinely tried on the basis of unsupported verbal allegations.

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When a burd lifts up a guys kilt in the grassmarket for a laugh - is it sexual assault ?

Technically, yes. (I've never done that in the Grassmarket).

There can never be a 'level playing field' for the same reason that comprehensive schools didn't work: the range of raw material. We are not clones of the same organism.

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There are two themes on this thread; does a warning constitute the implementation of thoughtcrime and, raised later, is there a "level playing field" when it comes to sexcrime?

Well, it's not thoughtcrime as portrayed in the novel - and warnings/chats are sensible policing. If I do have a concern, it's data retention and its use. We do have the unfortunate situation where databases of hearsay and, possibly malicious, gossip effect people's lives - with no test in court. That is wrong, IMO.

The second, "level playing field" point is dubious in its language; it's not a sporting match against two opposing teams. It's crime that effects individuals. However, I do agree that there's a lot inequity in how sex crime is dealt with. For example; it's almost the only crime that is now routinely tried on the basis of unsupported verbal allegations.

Good points.

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Technically, yes. (I've never done that in the Grassmarket).

There can never be a 'level playing field' for the same reason that comprehensive schools didn't work: the range of raw material. We are not clones of the same organism.

Technically yes. I agree.

Difference is almost zero blokes would go to the police for this - maybe 10% of burds would if I walked up to them and pulled up their skirt.

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Ms Raphael said some men might think it was acceptable to take advantage of women who are drunk or who have been separated from their friends on a night out.

This paints women as children almost in their vulnerability.

And it's all so vague, what does it actually mean? If I have sex with a woman who I meet when she's blocked and she wakes up and regrets it, and thinks 'i'd never have shagged him if I was sober', have I committed a sex crime?

If I have a woman who I meet when I'm blocked goes to bed with me, and then I wake up and regret it, and thinks 'i'd never have shagged her if I was sober', has she committed a sex crime?

I don't like the disproportionate amount of news artciles there seems to be on this, we'll end up feeling guilty for looking at a woman.

And the saddest thing is that I think that it's actually damaging to real victims of rape. You know, actual rape. I reckon despite what the media thinks, it's a tiny tiny proportion of men who would even dream of actually raping anybody. And stories like this make it seem like loads of guys are doing it, which I reckon would actually stop some people reporting these monsters as they'd think 'oh that's what alot of guys do'.

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"Fair dos - it probably was more serious than I thought - I do still think though as you say - seems everything can be sexual assault."

To give an example which seriously worries me, if you are waiting for a mate to pick you up in the street, and some woman or child thinks you look a bit "creepy", then do plod come along and give you a warning? And what differentiates this warning from a real caution? You can refuse a caution. There seems to be no appeal against this "warning".

I already know of people who do not draw their bedroom curtains, as they are terrified of being accused of being paedophile voyeurs by the children at the school whose playing fields abut their houses. There was a complaint from some kid, and now the whole street is under suspicion. It's ridiculous, but extremely frightening.

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"Fair dos - it probably was more serious than I thought - I do still think though as you say - seems everything can be sexual assault."

To give an example which seriously worries me, if you are waiting for a mate to pick you up in the street, and some woman or child thinks you look a bit "creepy", then do plod come along and give you a warning? And what differentiates this warning from a real caution? You can refuse a caution. There seems to be no appeal against this "warning".

I already know of people who do not draw their bedroom curtains, as they are terrified of being accused of being paedophile voyeurs by the children at the school whose playing fields abut their houses. There was a complaint from some kid, and now the whole street is under suspicion. It's ridiculous, but extremely frightening.

Serious they do this !!??

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This paints women as children almost in their vulnerability.

And it's all so vague, what does it actually mean? If I have sex with a woman who I meet when she's blocked and she wakes up and regrets it, and thinks 'i'd never have shagged him if I was sober', have I committed a sex crime?

If I have a woman who I meet when I'm blocked goes to bed with me, and then I wake up and regret it, and thinks 'i'd never have shagged her if I was sober', has she committed a sex crime?

I don't like the disproportionate amount of news artciles there seems to be on this, we'll end up feeling guilty for looking at a woman.

And the saddest thing is that I think that it's actually damaging to real victims of rape. You know, actual rape. I reckon despite what the media thinks, it's a tiny tiny proportion of men who would even dream of actually raping anybody. And stories like this make it seem like loads of guys are doing it, which I reckon would actually stop some people reporting these monsters as they'd think 'oh that's what alot of guys do'.

A woman can now change her mind (I assume technically blokes too) after the event and even if she admits she said last night "****** me senseless" - can now say she was too drunk to consent - didn't actually mean it -and put you in jail for ten years.

^ PS the above is actually fact and not some made up scare story from some Orwell novel.

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This is no different to how the cops react to other types of not-quite-crime.

I once reported a nutter driver who threatened to kill me with his 4x4 if he ever saw me cycling on the road again. The police said that while it was impossible to prosecute[1], they'd pop round and have a chat with him. On subsequent commutes, I don't think I ever saw such perfect overtaking and roadcraft as I did from that blue 4x4.

[1] They said it'd be his word against mine - so no case. Presumably if he'd slapped my **** it would be different!

No offense, but if they consider it 'your words against his' and thus not believing you anymore than him, going round to his house to intimidate him on the basis of 'maybe' he did something sounds like a gross abuse of police power to me.

Im sure you're a decent person, but their are millions of NIMBY types, gossipy types, daily mail types out there who will gladly get the police to hassle people theyve taken a dislike to.

Giving the police these powers will certainly end up with thousands being persecuted. The police cant even comprehend laws allowing people to take photographs in public places. Start talking legalese to them as many of these youtube uploaders do and suddenly they back off. Theres a reason judges and lawyers are paid a lot more than police officers...because most police officers are thick as two planks.

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