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900,000 Landlords Face Buy-To-Let Tax Probe

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2697977/900-000-landlords-face-buy-let-tax-probe-Second-home-owners-face-investigation-concern-grows-undeclared-profits.html

Tough new rules to come soon from the EU are also expected to help put the brakes on the amount banks are willing to lend buy-to-let investors.
Could this do to BTL what MMR has done for residential mortgages?

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Its not actually like it would take much investigation, just access to LR data (which they already have), Council tax data (which they already have) and the records for the deposit schemes (not sure if HMRC have access to this one).

Given the emergency law to monitor all communication, how easy would it be for HMRC to look into.

A simple comparison of LR owner details compared to where the owner is registered for council tax would be the first step. Where they are different check dpeosit scheme information. Send letter to occupier or officer to visit.

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Can confirm a friend in our local council tax department has had contact with HMRC recently. I suspect they're using council tax records against land registry data to establish if a property is rented.

Back date tax joy ahoy for some landlords.

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Can confirm a friend in our local council tax department has had contact with HMRC recently. I suspect they're using council tax records against land registry data to establish if a property is rented.

Back date tax joy ahoy for some landlords.

Good news. And about time. Should of being done years ago actually.

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I heard from my accountant late last year that HMRC had road tested in one area, and they were likely planning on rolling it out. Personally, I'm surprised as many as 500K have registered as it seemed to me that it was absolutely systemic when I rented.

This might well do it on the HPC front, I think, getting on for a 1m of these f**ks getting a letter from the tax man. Even if they owe nothing, they'll still be stuffed on the fines front. Could well provoke a massive stampede.

Edited by StainlessSteelCat

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Its not actually like it would take much investigation, just access to LR data (which they already have), Council tax data (which they already have) and the records for the deposit schemes (not sure if HMRC have access to this one).

Given the emergency law to monitor all communication, how easy would it be for HMRC to look into.

A simple comparison of LR owner details compared to where the owner is registered for council tax would be the first step. Where they are different check dpeosit scheme information. Send letter to occupier or officer to visit.

I'm not saying this would be my dream job, but if I was employed in the "Nail these tax evading BTL leeches" department, my levels of motivation and job satisfaction would be sky high. It's hardly rocket science either.

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I'm not saying this would be my dream job, but if I was employed in the "Nail these tax evading BTL leeches" department, my levels of motivation and job satisfaction would be sky high. It's hardly rocket science either.

I'd be putting in evenings and weekends - forget the payment.

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Hot air.

They're dong their usual. They release some scare story in the vain hope a few mugs will pay up.

They simply don't have enough staff or the will to chase people themselves.

We'll know when the government is serious about this when being a Landlord requires licensing.

The age of the computer and data dont need that much staff, Tax man applied for more data from banks, just a matter of number crunching.

Just the same as PAYE.

Edited by awaytogo

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Good news. And about time. Should of being done years ago actually.

They throw this story out once a year. A sop to renters, imo.

If anything ever came from it, you'd read forum threads of concerned landlords, and it might alter senstiment towards BTL 'investing'.

Instead all I read daily on MSE mortgage section, and elsewhere (Property Tribes), is people wanting to get into BTL / add to BTL positions.

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Instead all I read daily on MSE mortgage section, and elsewhere (Property Tribes), is people wanting to get into BTL / add to BTL positions.

Which if much more tolerable, for it's honest and people make their own decisions, still pushing and falling over one another to pay high prices (20%+ above 2007 here, and more in London), BTL, smiling HTB at zany prices, crunch all forgotten... than this sort of gash.

That's because the banks lent them the money. So they have some culpability as well.

If the issue is reckless lending/borrowing then who has the greater responsibility- the highly paid professionals who lent the money or the ordinary people who borrowed it? Under the laws of joint enterprise people can be locked up just because they were marginally involved in a crime such as murder- I would apply that same logic to bankers who facilitated reckless lending- they are just as responsible in my view as the people who borrowed the money-both parties felt they had something to gain- both are guilty.

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I'd be putting in evenings and weekends - forget the payment.

Commission only would be nice. A cut of all undeclared tax you recover. I'd be minted.

They throw this story out once a year. A sop to renters, imo.

If anything ever came from it, you'd read forum threads of concerned landlords, and it might alter senstiment towards BTL 'investing'.

Instead all I read daily on MSE mortgage section, and elsewhere (Property Tribes), is people wanting to get into BTL / add to BTL positions.

Anecdotally I am surrounded by amatuer clueless BTL'ers at work. One colleague did some property flipping and undeclared income BTL'ing back around 2006 and got a letter from the IR last year. Ok, it's 8 years late, but they had to employ an accountant to unravel a financial mess, including zero receipts kept for anything. Inital demand was for about 30k. I must ask how they got on with that. By definition, truly amatuer BTL'ers don't even read landlord forums let alone post on them.

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Commission only would be nice. A cut of all undeclared tax you recover. I'd be minted.

Anecdotally I am surrounded by amatuer clueless BTL'ers at work. One colleague did some property flipping and undeclared income BTL'ing back around 2006 and got a letter from the IR last year. Ok, it's 8 years late, but they had to employ an accountant to unravel a financial mess, including zero receipts kept for anything. Inital demand was for about 30k. I must ask how they got on with that. By definition, truly amatuer BTL'ers don't even read landlord forums let alone post on them.

Well that's encouraging.

I was being super-negative because of the situation, and trust the authorities do have ways and means of cross-referencing loads of information to id flippers/BTLers. Even them coming to ask questions with a bill, years down the line, is better than nothing. Would be good if they issued loads at once, to all the dodgers. Nearly 1 million, or maybe a lot more if residential 'consent-to-let' isn't included in estimate of landlord numbers, or other wheezes where no mortgage, not filing income from landlording with HMRC?

On Property-Tribes years ago, some BTLer suggested banks have a system called Pathfinder to check other properties a person owns/owned, so maybe Revenue has access to something too.

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I'd be putting in evenings and weekends - forget the payment.

They should outsource tax collection to opposing interest groups, I. E. Get HPC to collect landlord taxes etc.

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Well that's encouraging.

I was being super-negative because of the situation, and trust the authorities do have ways and means of cross-referencing loads of information to id flippers/BTLers. Even them coming to ask questions with a bill, years down the line, is better than nothing. Would be good if they issued loads at once, to all the dodgers. Nearly 1 million, or maybe a lot more if residential 'consent-to-let' isn't included in estimate of landlord numbers, or other wheezes where no mortgage, not filing income from landlording with HMRC?

On Property-Tribes years ago, some BTLer suggested banks have a system called Pathfinder to check other properties a person owns/owned, so maybe Revenue has access to something too.

The problem is the obvious conflict of interest when so many politicians rent out property.

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I've always thought this was brought in to herd landlords into a tax pen.

Your landlord must put your deposit in a government-backed tenancy deposit scheme (TDP) if you rent your home on an assured shorthold tenancy that started after 6 April 2007. In England and Wales your deposit can be registered with:
Deposit Protection Service (Custodial and Insured)
MyDeposits - including deposits that were held by Capita
Tenancy Deposit Scheme

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I've always thought this was brought in to herd landlords into a tax pen.

I'm sure you will find plenty of people that are still not in the scheme. The letting agents on our old house went bust and the landlord was wetting herself that she would have to get the cash and pay the fine. I don't know where the moeny came from in the end but it "appeared". The letting agent - as best I know - is still not in prison sadly.

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Years back I met a guy who worked freelance for the HMRC carrying out detailed fiscal investigations. Apparently they assigned him cases which he'd work though to see if anything turned up. Oddly he often found that everything was above board and nothing went any further, but he said about half the cases led further. From time to time he was called to give evidence in court. What surprised us was that the HMRC kind of tried to avoid the courts. It wasn't that they lost any cases but they just seemed to not want to worry the public.

I now feel that HMRC are the reason for the tax evasion we see as they aren't strict enough to make accountants and the public shy away from trying it on.

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I'm not saying this would be my dream job, but if I was employed in the "Nail these tax evading BTL leeches" department, my levels of motivation and job satisfaction would be sky high. It's hardly rocket science either.

Can you start on Monday?

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They should outsource tax collection to opposing interest groups, I. E. Get HPC to collect landlord taxes etc.

No need for that. Just outsource it to the highest bidder. Get in a fixed amount, and someone else is then well-motivated to reclaim the maximum possible from those liable.

Worked nicely for Havelock Vetinari.

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I'm not saying this would be my dream job, but if I was employed in the "Nail these tax evading BTL leeches" department, my levels of motivation and job satisfaction would be sky high. It's hardly rocket science either.

I think if you were working on piece-rate it probably would be!! :D

just think of the potential bonuses.

lets say 5% of potential revenue..after court costs.

a BTL spiv like that could probably net you £100-200k per grass!

more if the landlord was doing stuff illegally in the first place, just think of the blackmail factor!

no real need to go down the "nail these greedy leeches" movement.

if you want to keep these people in check, then you make the disposessed even more greedy than the landlords.(not to mention they will be filled with hate and vitriol about how hard done by they have been)

I wasn't joking when I said these guys would be bounty-hunted.

...a little financial incentive to swing the pendulum is all that's needed.

(basically das kapital, and the landlords have been both initially greedy and foolish enough to fall into the trap)

should have listened.

Edited by oracle

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