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Oh, I didn't realise that. By 'buying a house' I guess I'm stuck in the mindset of doing it in some economically sound manner (hence me not having one!)

Cheers for the link.

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But the people "doing you up the wrong 'un" are those competing with you to buy the houses for rent extraction (whether through expected capital appreciation in artificially-scarce building land, or actual landlordism.

The issue is the privatisation and monopolisation by the very rich of a common good (use of physical space, our very world!). The issue is not that someone (a bank) won't buy you a house on the never-never so that you can play at being one of those very rich.

The problem isn't whether or not you are not the shafter or shaftee, it's that one proportion of the citizenry is so severely shafting the others at all. If mortgage tightening lowers the real price of shelter (and it's a real, live question as to the precise level of impact it will have), overall shafting levels will be reduced.

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Jamie1981 has killed that thread stone dead with his nonsense about house prices crashing. :D:D:D:D

Maybe they're drafting out long and detailed replies which rip his comments to shreds ;)

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Maybe they're drafting out long and detailed replies which rip his comments to shreds ;)

No doubt they'll be along soon to tell him to take his cynical, envious, loser-renter-forever views back to HPC where they belong :)

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For the record, the small mortgage I got for recently lasts until I am mid-70's. Think the large deposit meant they threw the retirement thing out the window.

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For the record, the small mortgage I got for recently lasts until I am mid-70's. Think the large deposit meant they threw the retirement thing out the window.

If you've got an extremely large deposit I guess they think that you're capable of paying your small mortgage off well before that time if you so choose so find it an acceptable risk.

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The 2 bed terraced housing allocated as 'affordable' on the new build Taylor Wimpey estate in a S Devon Village near me was priced at £295k.

So with a deposit and HTB - a price match - yeh ! Everyone's a winner.

Prices went up to £475k

https://www.taylorwimpey.co.uk/find-your-home/england/devon/yealmpton/kitley-place

One of the features of that two-bed "Trispen" model:
"..on the ground floor you will find the kitchen and the living room/dining area, which features a door to the rear garden, making it easy for you to enjoy the outside space."
That's quite a nice little feature for the best part of £300k
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Why would anyone seek to commit themselves to a debt that requires working until they are 70 ?

So, you reach 70 and finally retire, and say "honey, these bricks are ours".

and then drop dead.

When will people stand back and realise ?

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The definition of FTB used by banks etc includes those who have owned, sold and not bought for a period of 12 months.

That's helpful. I've bought before but sold 6 years ago, so whenever I use a mortgage borrowing calculator I'm given a choice of BTL, remortgage or FTB and had no idea which of the last two I was.

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But the people "doing you up the wrong 'un" are those competing with you to buy the houses for rent extraction (whether through expected capital appreciation in artificially-scarce building land, or actual landlordism.

The issue is the privatisation and monopolisation by the very rich of a common good (use of physical space, our very world!). The issue is not that someone (a bank) won't buy you a house on the never-never so that you can play at being one of those very rich.

The problem isn't whether or not you are not the shafter or shaftee, it's that one proportion of the citizenry is so severely shafting the others at all. If mortgage tightening lowers the real price of shelter (and it's a real, live question as to the precise level of impact it will have), overall shafting levels will be reduced.

Got to agree with this. I'm over 40, still don't own a house (lucky enough to own my home, but it's not a house and that's where I should be).

So I can't get myself a 25 year mortgage now. I don't want a 25 year mortgage, I would have bought a house years ago if that was what I wanted.

I want mortgages to be lower LTVs, lower LTIs, shorter terms and houses to be priced accordingly.

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I'm going to post one of Jamie1981's posts in full as the analysis is spot on and it is based on bitter experience.

I must be missing something. What is an "HPCer"? I'm not sure why you think i have a ready prepared script up my sleeve, but i don't. If you go over to the Relationships forum you'll find plenty of posts from me, none mentioning house prices. I'm a GP, and i'm female. I also do relationship counselling.

It seems like i've touched on a nerve mentioning house prices. I'm sorry, but i think it is you that are blind. I'll tell you how i know this stuff though. After the credit crunch back in 2007, my DH's business was on the verge of bankruptcy because he couldn't borrow money to help with liquidity. Many of the people we know were in similar positions. His company was very profitable and he'd always met his bank's covenants, but suddenly they wouldn't lend. Jump forward a year or two and with our home remortgaged, we saw that Osbrone was going to launch Funding for Lending, which, we were promised, would reward banks for lending to people like my husband.

Only guess what? He still couldn't borrow. We had to sell our house, at a loss, while he wound down the business. When we'd paid everything off, we had exactly £1,234 left in our bank account. A number i'll always remember.

My now husband got to be quite bitter about it and went digging. It was then that we found out that the banks were using all - not just some, but all - of this cheap lending to expand their mortgage lending business. A bank manager who we know told us why - most businesses, these days, are service businesses in rented offices with leased equipment. In other words: nothing to repossess when the business goes under. Hence, they prefer to lend mortgages, because even in the worst case scenario, there will always be a sizeable lump of asset to offset against the debt.

Osborne's policy (and we are tory voters) has been to do everything he can to push up house prices. But now the EU (not Osborne) is acting to force banks to stress test at higher interest rates and lower income multiples. We are told that mortgage lending is up month on month. It is. But there are fewer loans being approved. This money is not going to first time buyers! And without first time buyers, you cannot have a market.

I've heard the "a crash has been predicted for ten years" line before, in fact i used to spout it myself. But when you think about the £375bn that has been channeled by the government into cheap lending for the banks, you start to understand that even with all this support, outside of London prices have barely moved.

My sister lives in London. She too thought house price rises were inevitable and wonderful. Now she has 4 kids crammed into a 3 bed house. Her house is worth more, but by the time she's paid stamp duty, the difference in price between her 3 bed house and the equivalent 4 bed house is nearly £80,000, which she cannot afford on her teacher's salary.

I say again, house prices are rising because banks are lending too much money. They can do this, because they know the taxpayer will bail them out. It is, frankly, laughable that the privileged few are banging on about house price inflation being a good thing, when really, all they are doing is competing to have the most debt.

As for buy to let landlords, only somebody with a vested interest in property would claim that they are a good thing. I pay nearly £1000 a month for our house. We are told that we can't have a pet. Our landlord is not interested in a longer term than 6 months, which means my son never knows if he is going to be in the same school (we live in a rural area with few rentals). I can't even paint the walls without the landlords permission.

In the meantime, he and people like him are being subsidised by the taxpayer at the beginning of the process (cheap mortgage lending) and at the end of the process (through housing benefit - not in our case, but in many). He has 17 houses that he rents and he once advised me to get involved too - he gets a bit of equity, remortgages, buys his next house. Gets rich off the back of his tenants, claims tax relief on his interest payments (what private buyer can do that?) and proudly boasts that he avoids paying tax when he sells a house by claiming that he lived in it for six months.

How anybody can think that a nation of people living in rented accommodation with no rights while themselves subsidising the greed of others is a good thing is utterly beyond me.

But the crash is coming. When it does, all those buy to let landlords and home owners who have perpetuated the boom will be crying out for help, no doubt.

She claims not to be a HPC member can we make her an honoury one.
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I'm going to post one of Jamie1981's posts in full as the analysis is spot on and it is based on bitter experience.

She claims not to be a HPC member can we make her an honoury one.

I guess the mumsnet response to that would be: ' she says she's a woman but she thinks like a man!' The board is nothing more than a large, leveraged version of the 'Women Empowering Women' ponzi/gifting circle that never seems to want to die -but I would say that being a man, who's looked at boobs on the interweb.

There are some very good, sensible posters on the mumsnet DIY + Property. Unfortunately, like in real life, 80% are bat sh1t , debt crazy.

To me, the bulk of the mumsnet DIY+Property board seems to be very London centric. The thing is, I come out in cold sweats when I see the the current London earning multiples (>9) and compare it 94, when it went from >5 to <3. A similar fall would be horrendous. And, as I keep pointing out on various posts, the UK, with a national debt heading to 100% GDP and deficit of ~7% (7!!!! !count them!!! years on the from the start of recession) is not, in the medium to long term, a low interest rate economy. We are heading to Wonga rates. We are not Switzerland or Germany FFS!

My comment about the HSBC mortgage calculator was made as HSBC appear to be one of the very banks with cash to lend. The rest seem to be operating a lottery system where, if you are very lucky, you get to live in debt for the rest of your life. The figures I entered were a rough average of people I know in their 30s/40s: bloke on around average wage, woman on a part time income, 2 kids. These people are the main house buying market - or least were, until BTL by morons, chasing ever decling yields and not being aware that they betting their main OO place on the BTL being profitable.

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My first wife believed in HPI and had no idea of the value of money. My second wife has very similar views to me on how mental it is to be in debt, buys stuff on discount in the local HK markets and is proud of not having any designer gear.

I am more and more convinced that if you find a woman who understands the true value of money and freedom from debt, grab her quick. Makes your life so much easier.

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No doubt they'll be along soon to tell him to take his cynical, envious, loser-renter-forever views back to HPC where they belong :)

Spot on that man.

Well, it only took half an hour - I didn't expect to be proved right so soon ;)

Top posts by Jamie1981 and roneik - they don't like it up em!

(but apparently it's entirely predictable that I would say that, being a condescending doom and gloom schadenfreude-loving misogynist)

Edited by LC1
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