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TheCountOfNowhere

Average Pay....in The Nhs

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At a guess that would be excluding (almost) all the non-professional staff, most of whom would be contracted out.

I would guess it's probably admin/managers/the people who control the budget.

The public sector MUST be paid less on average than the people forced to pay for them, that should be a given.

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Public sector workers get paid less than private sector workers because they aren't in a competitive workplace (a firm might go bust) and they have a good pension.

Oh hang on.... if they are now paid more than the private sector the good pension will cost even more.... I'm sure it will be OK.... they will think of something... the private sector will just have to pay more tax for less public services?

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Did anyone read the article?

This isn't the average pay in the NHS.

This is the average pay in the "GP led" commissioning body - you know those things the Tories forced through despite saying no top down NHS reorganisation.

These are the people responsible for palming off perfectly functioning NHS services to the companies who finance politicians. Obviously they are going to have higher than average pay, they are dealing with hundreds of millions of pounds of contracts.

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Did anyone read the article?

This isn't the average pay in the NHS.

This is the average pay in the "GP led" commissioning body - you know those things the Tories forced through despite saying no top down NHS reorganisation.

These are the people responsible for palming off perfectly functioning NHS services to the companies who finance politicians. Obviously they are going to have higher than average pay, they are dealing with hundreds of millions of pounds of contracts.

Of course not! I think it's the first law of confirmation bias.

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Did anyone read the article?

This isn't the average pay in the NHS.

This is the average pay in the "GP led" commissioning body - you know those things the Tories forced through despite saying no top down NHS reorganisation.

These are the people responsible for palming off perfectly functioning NHS services to the companies who finance politicians. Obviously they are going to have higher than average pay, they are dealing with hundreds of millions of pounds of contracts.

An NHS trust ultimately responsible for putting 43 Northamptonshire nurses’ jobs at risk has an average salary of almost £42,000 a year.

NHS Nene – a notionally GP-led body with no frontline staff, which allocates the county’s NHS money – was formed last year to make the health service more efficient and accountable.

But by December last year, despite launching a series of cuts schemes, it was placed in financial special measures for overspending by £12 million.

It has now come under attack from politicians who see the amounts being paid to its office-based staff as unjustified, particularly in times of austerity. For example, among cuts currently being considered in the county are the loss of 43 community psychiatric nurse posts at Northamptonshire Healthcare NHS Foundation Trust, whose seemingly inadequate funding comes from NHS Nene.

Yes, all about managers.

Plus no links in the article - it's online, inline linkage is trivial.

As far as I know there is a serious shortage of nurses outside the NHS.

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The NHS is the best in the world in terms of value for money and service according to a recent American study.

Anyone got a link to that and not this bunkem (I presume the OP didn't read it properly because he was so outraged)?

Here it is: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/nhs/10907823/Britains-NHS-is-the-worlds-best-health-care-system-says-report.html

Edited by byron78

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The NHS is the best in the world in terms of value for money and service according to a recent American study.

Anyone got a link to that and not this bunkem (I presume the OP didn't read it properly because he was so outraged)?

Here it is: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/nhs/10907823/Britains-NHS-is-the-worlds-best-health-care-system-says-report.html

I particularly like this line: "The only serious criticism of the NHS was its poor record on keeping people alive."

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I particularly like this line: "The only serious criticism of the NHS was its poor record on keeping people alive."

That's a keeper isn't it?

Classic quote.

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The NHS is the best in the world in terms of value for money and service according to a recent American study.

The NHS is a huge political hot potato in the US. Any 'merkin study of it is making a propaganda point, on one side or the other of the argument.

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At a guess that would be excluding (almost) all the non-professional staff, most of whom would be contracted out.

I would say that very likely to be correct. I know of quite a few working in the NHS through agencies at £8.50 an hour. Full timers are on 18k.

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The NHS is a huge political hot potato in the US. Any 'merkin study of it is making a propaganda point, on one side or the other of the argument.

It consistently comes out of top of almost all global studies to be fair.

We'll try and kill it though because privisation is brilliant and has never ended up with things getting sh1tter and infinitely more expensive ever ever ever.

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Labour’s Parliamentary candidate for Northampton North, said she was outraged by such high wages for public servants.

lol. Ive heard it all now. Labour thinks £1200 a role of wallpaper is good value. When its taxpayer money, at least.

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It consistently comes out of top of almost all global studies to be fair.

We'll try and kill it though because privisation is brilliant and has never ended up with things getting sh1tter and infinitely more expensive ever ever ever.

Not much competition though, is there?

The US is a basket case.

Canada apparently is like an even more decrepit NHS, with longer waits.

Germany and France are more expensive.

Japan 'looks' good.

Im not a fan of the NHS, but dysfunctional healthcare with zero cost containment is a global problem, not specifically a british disease.

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The irony is of course, the US system is so expensive primarily (not purely though) because of the insurance network of middlemen, getting a cut and adding no value.

Exactly what our financial services industry does with so many areas, especially housing.

If only the politicians could see the similarities between US healthcare and UK housing.

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The irony is of course, the US system is so expensive primarily (not purely though) because of the insurance network of middlemen, getting a cut and adding no value.

Exactly what our financial services industry does with so many areas, especially housing.

If only the politicians could see the similarities between US healthcare and UK housing.

That's a really excellent point.

I'm not a big statist (I'm a lifelong Tory voter up until recently at least), but I do find myself absolutely terrified that the extent of reforms the Conservatives seem to be able to offer is usually "privatise it or sell it."

There is so much that can be done to reform and improve a great deal in this country other than falling back on that one (often wrong) lazy ideology.

The areas of the NHS they are opening up are just adding more layers of greedy leeches (essentially the point the OP's link makes), it's not making it more streamlined or cheaper.

What is obvious to anyone with half a brain is that adding service industries on top of service industries on top of insurance companies within insurance companies a la the American health system won't make things better/cheaper for anyone over here.

Sadly huge corporations are lobbying to get their teeth into the NHS. Only a matter of time.

Going back to your original point, I can't see housing being reformed properly either because the red tape within the system is actually hugely beneficial to the big house builders in terms of establishing a monopoly.

It restricts individuals and small house builders more than anyone, which is just fine as far as they're concerned.

Edited by byron78

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Before the commissioning groups (CCGs) we had strategic health authorities SHAs. There were a handful of SHAs, now we have literally hundreds of CCGs. The staffing increase is astronomical compared to how it was but it ties in with Tory privatisation dogma and somehow they've kept this out go the media.

CCGs are going broke at an alarming rate just a couple of years into their tenure and are merging with neighbouring ones so the SHAs are quietly reforming.

The only winners in all this change are the private companies who, as said before, leech profits whilst using corporate sleight of hand to provide far worse services yet still meet the poorly worded performance criteria for their contracts.

I can expose and prove all I say by the way as an insider but either nobody wants to know or there's a D notice on this disaster for public services.

As for the average wage it is because in each CCG there are a few nominal GP leads for various things, who are just taking bags of cash for not much part time work other than turning up to meetings they know little about (and why should they as front line clinicians know about health service management and contracting), a few low grade support staff and then the middle ground which is the managers from the old SHAs and others brought in as there was a massive personnel shortage due to the sheer number of CCGs.

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