marko Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Dear HPCers, (moderator: this has direct relevance to the house price bubble...please leave here for a bit, then if too off topic move to other) I stumbled across a very, very, VERY informative downloadable film about how the moneylenders have increasingly wormed their way into our lives - it is called 'The Money Masters'....I would suggest you download it. It comes in two downloadable parts, and the total is a very hefty 3.5 hours long. I have only gotten half of the way through the first part, and it has been extremely informative. So far it has discussed the roots of money (including a very interesting piece on Tally sticks that were introduced in England by Henry V (1st...can remember at the mo), and were specifically designed to keep the moneylenders from messing with the national currency...they are considered by many to be the most successful currency device ever invented. Then it goes onto the history of banking and FRB, and the history of the rise of the Rothschilds in Europe. It also deals with roots of the American war of independence (BoE banning colonial scrip and forcing colonies to pay taxes in Gold/Silver.....result? Massive economic strife), and struggle by successive American Presidents (including some amazing quotes) especially Jackson, to wrestle control of the money supply away from bankers..... So far, it has been VERY informative, very sober and extremely interesting from a historical perspective....I am going to to watch the rest of the first part tonight, and then the second part in the near future. REQUIRED viewing I feel for those who would like to know more about the system we inhabit, and very important in relation to the current HOUSE PRICE BUBBLE. Here are the links: http://www.propagandamatrix.com/multimedia...1_Part1_all.wmv http://www.propagandamatrix.com/multimedia...pe2_128KBps.wmv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Thanks for the link, looks good Bush will do anything to last a little bit longer and you can read all about it at Question 911 but do take copies as these sites are being closed down as we speak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTeetwo Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 "Dear HPCers, (moderator: this has direct relevance to the house price bubble...please leave here for a bit, then if too off topic move to other) I stumbled across a very, very, VERY informative downloadable film about how the moneylenders have increasingly wormed their way into our lives - it is called 'The Money Masters'....I would suggest you download it. It comes in two downloadable parts, and the total is a very hefty 3.5 hours long. I have only gotten half of the way through the first part, and it has been extremely informative. So far it has discussed the roots of money (including a very interesting piece on Tally sticks that were introduced in England by Henry V (1st...can remember at the mo), and were specifically designed to keep the moneylenders from messing with the national currency...they are considered by many to be the most successful currency device ever invented. Then it goes onto the history of banking and FRB, and the history of the rise of the Rothschilds in Europe. It also deals with roots of the American war of independence (BoE banning colonial scrip and forcing colonies to pay taxes in Gold/Silver.....result? Massive economic strife), and struggle by successive American Presidents (including some amazing quotes) especially Jackson, to wrestle control of the money supply away from bankers..... So far, it has been VERY informative, very sober and extremely interesting from a historical perspective....I am going to to watch the rest of the first part tonight, and then the second part in the near future. REQUIRED viewing I feel for those who would like to know more about the system we inhabit, and very important in relation to the current HOUSE PRICE BUBBLE. Here are the links: http://www.propagandamatrix.com/multimedia...1_Part1_all.wmv http://www.propagandamatrix.com/multimedia...pe2_128KBps.wmv "Thanks for the above, Marko. I wonder whether a link to the website may speed up responses. Obviously it is very interesting but, personally, I haven't the knowledge to evaluate it accurately. Yes, I'm hoping for some dicussion in this amazing place. http://www.themoneymasters.com/ Regards KT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foobar Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 What a brilliant link, totally opened my eyes to what is happening, history is repeating itself because it is being designed to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foobar Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 (edited) Woah this is too real, just to remind you: Brown makes BoE independent. 4 days into power! Sorry this won't make sense to people who haven't watched the video, I urge you to watch it. Brilliant conspiracy fodder! Edited December 4, 2005 by Foobar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foobar Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 (edited) I feel I should summarise: Basically banks have power (without politcal control) to lend/print more money than they actually posess and charge interest on it, money out of thin air. This devalues the common persons money and we all end up in debt as we borrow to keep up with the next person. The banks then buy gold with the interest we pay (anyone seen the price of gold recently) once they have enough debtors they up the interest rate, keeping people nicely dependent or bankrupt (the money they borrowed didn't exist anyway). The rich get super rich the poor have had it! Interesting to see that Britain now compares to Pakistan in terms of the disparity in wealth, I will try and find the link to support this. Found it on this web site!: http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/lof...php/t19626.html Edited December 4, 2005 by Foobar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foobar Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 So by my understanding you just have to watch Federal Reserve Treasury bonds, when the price starts falling you know all these people with massive debts/mortgages are really in trouble. Why? because the fed is taking money off the market by selling bonds and making the borrowing of money more expensive. This piece of logic is explained at the end of the first video. http://www.cbot.com/cbot/pub/page1/1,3248,265,00.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Mason Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 A very interesting film, and when you think about it then it does seem so obvious. However, as to the BoE or Fed controlling the business cycle.... If this IS the case then what does this mean to the Elliot/Kondriatief Wave theories then? Dr Bubb? Would be interested to hear your views. It is pretty obvious that it's not politicians with the electorates best interests at heart who are controlling the economies of the world. If the BoE is a private company (is it?) then how is it right that it controls the lives of the bulk of the people in the UK? This isn't democracy is it? Regardless of who is in No 10. Some food for thought there isn't there. Best regards Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapper slater Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Woah this is too real, just to remind you: Brown makes BoE independent. 4 days into power! Sorry this won't make sense to people who haven't watched the video, I urge you to watch it. Brilliant conspiracy fodder! Yes. And we all thought that Brown was manipulating the bank. Intellectual correction on the way I think for many HPC ers. We should note that this video is only one-side of the story, a single viewpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapper slater Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 I feel I should summarise: Basically banks have power (without politcal control) to lend/print more money than they actually posess and charge interest on it, money out of thin air. This devalues the common persons money and we all end up in debt as we borrow to keep up with the next person. More or less. The central banks 'create' money each time they buy a gilt (from the open market, not directly from treasury) and make a note of it. This is a book keeping exercise really since when gilts are sold (or redeemed) they 'destroy' the entry (like an iou to itself). However they have made money on top through interest or whatever over and above the buyer paid for the gilts. The highstreet banks (as I'll call them) don't create money as such, but they are allowed to operate the old goldsmiths' trick of lending out more than they actually have since less than 10% of deposits are ever called upon - obviously the higher the market share a bank holds the more likely any money surrended (lent / withrawn and spent) end up back in a deposit held by the same bank so increasing the fractional reserve leverage. So they will do ANYTHING to get your current account business. Government borrowing (issuing gilts) and BOE buying, is the ONLY way money is issued and destroyed. This adds more to the supply and thus dilutes the existing supply (or vice versa). In the former case, this is called inflation and is much more difficult to 'see' than normal taxes are. Inflation is simply tax that the government does not have the political will (I think they mean good-will, i.e of us) to levy directly. The problem is two-fold:- -The government runs up an ever increasing national debt that it can never pay off without destroying all the money in the economy. Since the money is borrowed it has an ever increasing interest burden that the economy must pay for to the bank. The bank never earned the money in the first place it just created it! Eventually you reach critical mass (as in US) where the taxes levied barely cover the interest alone and thus are on the threshold of default and collapse (as in third world, zimbabwe is about to crash for this very reason) since the US soon will need to borrow to pay the interest on that already borrowed. -The power to issue currency gives an ancient and god-like power to a few uber powerful men and women. The stock market, real estate market, everything of worth has its price controlled by the central banks and thus, for the banks it's like a day at the races where they know which horses will win. They can also create a recession or depression at will in order to take possession of the colateral of the most extended debtors. It sucks. It really sucks! The solution offered is simple but very dangerous for anyone trying to implement it (as the likes of Lincoln proved) Goverment should issue / destroy currency (and not have the interest burden associated - after all, it's just paper and numbers on a file somewhere!) You can never irradicate corruption but anything must be preferable to private industry controlling the public finances and economic well-being through secret discussions and a few keystrokes. It's amazing how simple it all turns out to be once someone explains it without the smokescreen of "complete economics gibberish" (as the bloke in the film puts it) Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuberider Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 great stuff will download it once i get home this topic should be THE item for debate on this forum, not whether house prices will crash or not. we already know they will cos the system is rigged once you refrom the debt money system, most other problems will follow suit and solve themselves nice one marko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foobar Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 More or less. The central banks 'create' money each time they buy a gilt (from the open market, not directly from treasury) and make a note of it. This is a book keeping exercise really since when gilts are sold (or redeemed) they 'destroy' the entry (like an iou to itself). However they have made money on top through interest or whatever over and above the buyer paid for the gilts. The highstreet banks (as I'll call them) don't create money as such, but they are allowed to operate the old goldsmiths' trick of lending out more than they actually have since less than 10% of deposits are ever called upon - obviously the higher the market share a bank holds the more likely any money surrended (lent / withrawn and spent) end up back in a deposit held by the same bank so increasing the fractional reserve leverage. So they will do ANYTHING to get your current account business. Government borrowing (issuing gilts) and BOE buying, is the ONLY way money is issued and destroyed. This adds more to the supply and thus dilutes the existing supply (or vice versa). In the former case, this is called inflation and is much more difficult to 'see' than normal taxes are. Inflation is simply tax that the government does not have the political will (I think they mean good-will, i.e of us) to levy directly. The problem is two-fold:- -The government runs up an ever increasing national debt that it can never pay off without destroying all the money in the economy. Since the money is borrowed it has an ever increasing interest burden that the economy must pay for to the bank. The bank never earned the money in the first place it just created it! Eventually you reach critical mass (as in US) where the taxes levied barely cover the interest alone and thus are on the threshold of default and collapse (as in third world, zimbabwe is about to crash for this very reason) since the US soon will need to borrow to pay the interest on that already borrowed. -The power to issue currency gives an ancient and god-like power to a few uber powerful men and women. The stock market, real estate market, everything of worth has its price controlled by the central banks and thus, for the banks it's like a day at the races where they know which horses will win. They can also create a recession or depression at will in order to take possession of the colateral of the most extended debtors. It sucks. It really sucks! The solution offered is simple but very dangerous for anyone trying to implement it (as the likes of Lincoln proved) Goverment should issue / destroy currency (and not have the interest burden associated - after all, it's just paper and numbers on a file somewhere!) You can never irradicate corruption but anything must be preferable to private industry controlling the public finances and economic well-being through secret discussions and a few keystrokes. It's amazing how simple it all turns out to be once someone explains it without the smokescreen of "complete economics gibberish" (as the bloke in the film puts it) Regards. Thanks, I think you have explained it far more eloquently than I did. I'm glad people have noticed this thread bubbling back up and understand it! Yep, we need more people to read this and watch the video, ignorance of this means you just fall into the debt trap. This is really mind blowing stuff for me, and a gauge on exactly when the crash is likely to happen? Or could they just keep massaging the money levels and produce miracle flat markets? Surely it will all collapse in the end as people can't afford repayments even on low interest debts? Any thoughts on the economic indicators we can use, can we do some collective research into how we can follow the grand plan! I remember someone showing me something about "repos" on the Fed website? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foobar Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 A very interesting film, and when you think about it then it does seem so obvious. However, as to the BoE or Fed controlling the business cycle.... If this IS the case then what does this mean to the Elliot/Kondriatief Wave theories then? Dr Bubb? Would be interested to hear your views. It is pretty obvious that it's not politicians with the electorates best interests at heart who are controlling the economies of the world. If the BoE is a private company (is it?) then how is it right that it controls the lives of the bulk of the people in the UK? This isn't democracy is it? Regardless of who is in No 10. Some food for thought there isn't there. Best regards Frank I guess the market will move in waves and cycles around what the Fed get up to. They are a large "energy" source like a hurricane; but there will be all sorts of other weather before and after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Charlie The Tramp Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 We should note that this video is only one-side of the story, a single viewpoint. Yes, but what an informative viewpoint. It`s also a history of Central Banks, Fractional Reserve Banking, and Fiat Money. A good part was the history of the BoE from 1694. A must view for all those who are in the dark about how banking systems work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marko Posted December 5, 2005 Author Share Posted December 5, 2005 (edited) A very interesting film, and when you think about it then it does seem so obvious. Dr Bubb? Would be interested to hear your views. I am afraid that you are very unlikely to get a response from the Doctor on this topic...he won't touch it with a bargepole. I have repeatedly brought the topic of monetary reform up on this web forum, and have tried to tempt him into engaging with me, but every time he just ignores the thread until it goes away. In fact, I am doing it again...DrBubb, what do you think about the way money is supplied to our economies by private narrow interest groups? I am not 'banking' on a response, but I would be pleasantly surprised if there is one. I would urge everyone to watch this film, and try and read as much about how money is created, and who actually controls it. Do not look for any debate in the mainstream media - the topic is never raised (unsurprisingly ). Also maybe you can read "The Future of Money" and "The Grip of Death"...as good primers on the nature of money - what it actually is. Most of us look at money as a value-neutral item, and trust it...no. As slapper slater says, there is a tremendous amount of smoke and mirrors trotted out by economic and financial commentators, most of which is distracts us from a fundamental problem that sits at the centre of the financial system - and is protected by the 'money trust', the ne plus ultra of VIs! In fact, I am sure that the overwhelming majority of these economic experts in the media aren't even properly aware of the problem - it is just not thought about. This may sound melodramatic, but it is nonetheless true: Arm yourself with knowledge, and do not let the moneychangers exploit you. Edited December 5, 2005 by marko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapper slater Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 I am afraid that you are very unlikely to get a response from the Doctor on this topic...he won't touch it with a bargepole. I have repeatedly brought the topic of monetary reform up on this web forum, and have tried to tempt him into engaging with me, but every time he just ignores the thread until it goes away. In fact, I am doing it again...DrBubb, what do you think about the way money is supplied to our economies by private narrow interest groups? I am not 'banking' on a response, but I would be pleasantly surprised if there is one. DrB is obviously well-known in some circles. He / she has been publishing a LOT of material lately, has an excellent career record (in investment BANKING) and is clearly very ambitious. I think he / she has high hopes for some sort of future in economic editing. There is no way DrB can risk being outspoken on this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nayved Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Hey guys, I posted a document that sounded a bit like this a few months ago. Maybe you'd be interested in reading it. Regards, The_American_monetary_system.doc The_Creators_of_the_Banking_Beast.doc The_American_monetary_system.doc The_Creators_of_the_Banking_Beast.doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 I'm disgusted. It means we are forever to be working for a few anonymous uber-rich families. How many people realise the bank of england is a privately owned company? Something MUST be done. Personally I'm angry beyond words. Time for a revolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashConnoisseur Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 I would urge everyone to watch this film,... I might have done had it been in an open standard format such as MPEG-4. Closed formats such as Windows Media Video have no place on an open Web. Attached File(s) [Nayved] Ditto for Microsoft Word documents. The appropriate format to use for formatted documents is PDF. How many people realise the bank of england is a privately owned company? [Adam] Not me... 'Freedom of Information: The Bank's Publication Scheme': http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/foi/#purpose What are the purpose and aims of the Bank of England?Founded in 1694, nationalised in 1946 and gaining operational independence in 1997, the Bank of England stands at the centre of the UK's financial system as the central bank of the United Kingdom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapper slater Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 (edited) I would urge everyone to watch this film,... I might have done had it been in an open standard format such as MPEG-4. Closed formats such as Windows Media Video have no place on an open Web. Attached File(s) [Nayved] Ditto for Microsoft Word documents. The appropriate format to use for formatted documents is PDF. How many people realise the bank of england is a privately owned company? [Adam] Not me... 'Freedom of Information: The Bank's Publication Scheme': http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/foi/#purpose I'm sorry but this does NOT exonerate the BOE from any of the charges of this thread. So the stocks are held by the treasury. Big deal. It is still a private (non government) institution run by private employees. Being a listed co. does not eliminate corporate and political fraud, filthy accounting practise and CEO's creaming OUTRAGEOUS bonuses from the profits whilst deflating dividends. The charges of corrupt monetary control and complete economic manipulation still hold. That act means nothing and does nothing. The bank is still a company out for the profit of it's board members and cronies around the world. If PLC really worked in stockholders' interest, then stocks would be based more towards fundamentals of dividends rather than pure speculation. And (like the phone book challenge) http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/ is the official website. government agencies are all .gov.uk. Nuff said. Edited December 5, 2005 by slapper slater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Can you buy shares in the BoE? I watched the first half on Sunday, and it was very interesting (first part is mainly historical). I recommend a viewing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudge Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 I read a book by David Icke that first chapter ran along the same lines as the ideas in these videos, but later went on to blame the illuminati. I think there is underlying truth in there, but without the lizard men. In a capitalist society it makes sense that the Banks rule. I will make a mental note, in the next revolution take the Banks over first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuyingBear Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 I'm disgusted. It means we are forever to be working for a few anonymous uber-rich families. How many people realise the bank of england is a privately owned company? It was, however it was nationalised after the war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurf1976 Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Ditto for Microsoft Word documents. The appropriate format to use for formatted documents is PDF. PDF. Great if you have time to put up with all the problems with Adobe Acrobat and wait forever for the file to download if you have dial up. Much easier and quicker to just keep it as a web page wherever possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurf1976 Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 I'm downloading it but probably won't have time to watch it for a few weeks. Might take a while to download though since I have a dial-up connection and it's about 150 meg in total for both videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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