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Ologhai Jones

Crash For Cash - Keep Your Distance

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BBC website: Warning over increase in 'crash for cash' cases.

Even though this piece is about 'crash for cash' fraud, I still find myself wondering about the culpability of the driver with the dashboard camera. In principle, shouldn't the car in front of you be able to come to a complete stop at any time without the driver behind rear-ending it?
Even without the possibility of fraud, when I'm on the motorway, I find the fast-lane nose-to-tailing pretty alarming.

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shouldn't the car in front of you be able to come to a complete stop at any time without the driver behind rear-ending it?

Yes in theory but we rely heavily on brake lights to give us enough warning to react. It changes the game when those brake lights are disabled.

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BBC website: Warning over increase in 'crash for cash' cases.

Even though this piece is about 'crash for cash' fraud, I still find myself wondering about the culpability of the driver with the dashboard camera. In principle, shouldn't the car in front of you be able to come to a complete stop at any time without the driver behind rear-ending it?
Even without the possibility of fraud, when I'm on the motorway, I find the fast-lane nose-to-tailing pretty alarming.

Aye indeed! Some people have not read the Highway Code, don't understand momentum, or believe in God just a bit too much!

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Yes in theory but we rely heavily on brake lights to give us enough warning to react. It changes the game when those brake lights are disabled.

Working brake lights seem to be a reasonable assumption, and if it's the only expectation you're relying on, then it may not be so likely to cause trouble. However, when this assumption is combined with various other expectations (e.g., that the driver in front won't slow down at all, that you'll notice immediately if they do start slowing, that your brakes are at least as effective as those of the car in front, that your foot won't slip off the brake pedal in your panic, ...), there's not much contingency left to spare.

Besides which, at least two out of the three brake lights in the video seem to be working.

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What would be the line on non-working brakelights vs dashboard camera showing them not working?

Agree on the tail-enders though that’s their fault if they rear-end, the crash-cash crew I thought relied on swerving in front of someone doing normal speed then slamming their brakes on, thus giving the normal driving no time to adjust to a safe distance?

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Working brake lights seem to be a reasonable assumption, and if it's the only expectation you're relying on, then it may not be so likely to cause trouble. However, when this assumption is combined with various other expectations (e.g., that the driver in front won't slow down at all, that you'll notice immediately if they do start slowing, that your brakes are at least as effective as those of the car in front, that your foot won't slip off the brake pedal in your panic, ...), there's not much contingency left to spare.

Besides which, at least two out of the three brake lights in the video seem to be working.

A requirement for an MOT! So reasonable, as you say! One of mine went out ( I was told) , and I went to an auto-electrician and had it fixed that day! The third LED style light only has to work 50%. If it doesn't, you disconnect it , and then it doesn't count! :blink:

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Working brake lights seem to be a reasonable assumption, and if it's the only expectation you're relying on, then it may not be so likely to cause trouble. However, when this assumption is combined with various other expectations (e.g., that the driver in front won't slow down at all, that you'll notice immediately if they do start slowing, that your brakes are at least as effective as those of the car in front, that your foot won't slip off the brake pedal in your panic, ...), there's not much contingency left to spare.

Besides which, at least two out of the three brake lights in the video seem to be working.

Problem is, given the time lag between your body taking action and then your brain catching up (yes, it's that way around ) unexpected things WILL catch you out unless you drive freakishly and consciously cautiously. Which would be exhausting; you'd be lucky to get 20 miles will full concentration turned on.

Basically, when you are driving, especially as an experienced driver, your unconscious brain will be doing the vast majority of the work. And mostly reacting much faster than you can think - otherwise, frankly, the whole 'Car as personal transport' thing would not happen. The problem happens in this case where something happens that shouldn't - namely a person slams on their brakes for no reason with an open road ahead. The 'unconscious trained driver' bit of your brain can't process it, and by the time your conscious brain has been woken up to the situation it's too late.

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I thought this subject was on the 'do not discuss' list due to potential racial overtones emerging? :ph34r:

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£10million in fraudulent claims doesnt seem a lot...usually the media spout off stuff like it adds £30 to the average £300 premium.

30 million odd vehicles x £30 is a lot more than 10 million...it would be nearer a billion.

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I thought this subject was on the 'do not discuss' list due to potential racial overtones emerging? :ph34r:

Wait a minute - it'll be along with the next rickshaw bus

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£10million in fraudulent claims doesnt seem a lot...usually the media spout off stuff like it adds £30 to the average £300 premium.

30 million odd vehicles x £30 is a lot more than 10 million...it would be nearer a billion.

And potential hospital time for any actual injuries.

And stress and hassle of dealing with insurance companies.

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I thought this subject was on the 'do not discuss' list due to potential racial overtones emerging? :ph34r:

To be fair, most the cases i've read about seem to have a white or at least non-muslim inside man/accountant/insurance broker.

A true nulabour multi-culti success story.

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To be fair, most the cases i've read about seem to have a white or at least non-muslim inside man/accountant/insurance broker.

A true nulabour multi-culti success story.

Integration of the communities at it's best..

http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/crash-cash-fraud-gang-jailed-6922814

44 sentenced for huge Huddersfield crash for cash scam: full list of those convicted

Lee Wood, 30, of Causeway Head, Sowerby Bridge

Gurdial Samra, 63, of Park Avenue, Springwood

Balbir Samra, 64, of Park Avenue, Springwood

Kirinjit Samra, 32, of Birkby Road, Huddersfield

Zahid Ahmad, 28, of Fitzwilliam Street, Huddersfield

Shazad Arshad, 34, of Yews Hill Road, Lockwood

Bobby Lockwood, 25, of Hammerton Road, Fartown

Moshin Khan, 32, North Street, Huddersfield

Asma Khan, 29, North Street, Huddersfield

Mohammed Ishaq, 26, of Fenton Road, Huddersfield

Tasleem Akhtar, 38, of Springdale Street, Huddersfield

Shoukat Mehmood, 40, of Alwen Avenue, Huddersfield

Mohammed Azam, 61, of Blackmoor Foot Road

Mohammed Azam, 27, of Fitzwilliam Street, Huddersfield

Mohammed Azeem, 28, of Edgerton Road, Manchester

Mohammad Anwar, 35, of Weymouth Avenue, Huddersfield

Marlon Matheson, 27, of Bradford Road, Huddersfield

Leon Henry, 27, of Thackeray Grove, Lockwood

Kade Mason, 23, of Luck Lane, Huddersfield

Levis Gill, 26, Whittaker Street, Deighton

Rodney Thomas, 40, of Birkby Lodge Road, Huddersfield

Kieran Joseph, 26, of Padworth Walk, Manchester

Simeon Johnson, 30, of Wood View, Huddersfield

Anthony Collins, 38, Church Street, Paddock

Colin Robinson, 47, of Roman Quay, Gloucester

David Mark Papps, 40, of Redwell Road, Gloucester

David Sydney Papps, 28, of Quenneys Close, Gloucester

Darren Howe, 42, of Wheatstone Road, Gloucester

Christopher Beckley, of Ashenhirst Road, Newsome

Clinton Mason, Luck Lane, Paddock

Rees Thomas, 27, of Stuart Place, Deighton

Damien Murray, Halifax Old Road, Birkby

Jordan Matheson, 30, of Crosland Moor

Klyne Allert, 28, of Keldregate, Deighton

Dwane Thomas, 26, of Woodbine, Fartown

Kirnjitt Sangha, 32, of Birkby Road, Huddersfield

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I've just ordered a dashcam. If it never catches any fraudulent insurance claims it will certainly capture some shocking sh*t driving standards for YouTube.

Watch this space!

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BBC website: Warning over increase in 'crash for cash' cases.

Even though this piece is about 'crash for cash' fraud, I still find myself wondering about the culpability of the driver with the dashboard camera. In principle, shouldn't the car in front of you be able to come to a complete stop at any time without the driver behind rear-ending it?

I must admit this video isn't the best example to use for insurance fraud. As the driver of the truck with the camera was clearly careless in not maintaining adequate distance from the car in front. I'm a great believer in the "two second rule" for dual carriageways - in this case, the separation is less than 1 second, not enough to avoid a collision at motorway speeds for a car, never mind a heavy truck.

Anyway, I've had a car cam for nearly a couple of years, and it's caught surprisingly little of interest. This is probably the most exciting thing it's caught:

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I must admit this video isn't the best example to use for insurance fraud. As the driver of the truck with the camera was clearly careless in not maintaining adequate distance from the car in front. I'm a great believer in the "two second rule" for dual carriageways - in this case, the separation is less than 1 second, not enough to avoid a collision at motorway speeds for a car, never mind a heavy truck.

Anyway, I've had a car cam for nearly a couple of years, and it's caught surprisingly little of interest. This is probably the most exciting thing it's caught:

Maybe move to eastern europe, our chavs and BMW chavs are tame compared to theirs. Im sure there will be plenty of stuff to upload.

One thing that shocks me is how good the roads look in Poland and even the larger cities in Russia. London is falling apart meanwhile. Cant be long till all the eastern euros vacate the ageing tart that is the UK, and move back east. Go out of the touristy areas and oligargh avenues and London may as well be a cold weather islamabad.

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I thought this subject was on the 'do not discuss' list due to potential racial overtones emerging? :ph34r:

Oddly there's strong racial stereotype evidence elsewhere. It's so endemic in Russia everyone has a dashcam but, it's seemingly not a new idea as, I believe, both War and Peace and Brothers Karamazov reference people deliberately throwing themselves in front of horse-drawn carriages as an insurance fraud so old habits die hard.

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Maybe move to eastern europe, our chavs and BMW chavs are tame compared to theirs. Im sure there will be plenty of stuff to upload.

One thing that shocks me is how good the roads look in Poland and even the larger cities in Russia.

EU Money for the Poles at least.

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Plenty of examples of cash for crash and some very nasty accident footage on Live Leak.

I delved into the dash cam thing last year but bought a mobius dash cam which can record up to 1080p. Excellent piece of kit and it gives stunning video, the main advantage I have taken of it so far was recording our drives through some US national parks earlier this year in Nevada and Utah.

Whole caboodle with helmet strap mounts (cycling) body mounts if that sort of thing interests you and dash mount comes in at <£70 on fleabay. You would need a large® capacity microsd card to store the video/images in addition.

You can even get a waterproof case for it and take it snorkelling (which is next on my list.

So if anyone is thinking of getting one and I do use this as a standard dashcam (as well as everything else) this is worth considering.

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Plenty of examples of cash for crash and some very nasty accident footage on Live Leak.

I delved into the dash cam thing last year but bought a mobius dash cam which can record up to 1080p. Excellent piece of kit and it gives stunning video, the main advantage I have taken of it so far was recording our drives through some US national parks earlier this year in Nevada and Utah.

Whole caboodle with helmet strap mounts (cycling) body mounts if that sort of thing interests you and dash mount comes in at <£70 on fleabay. You would need a large® capacity microsd card to store the video/images in addition.

You can even get a waterproof case for it and take it snorkelling (which is next on my list.

So if anyone is thinking of getting one and I do use this as a standard dashcam (as well as everything else) this is worth considering.

Makes you wonder.. at some point, probably not too far off, you could have a camera built into glasses or just hung on your ear that records everything you do. Uploading to the Cloud whenever in contact. (Privacy? What that?)

I'm actually surprised that built in recording is not yet standard on cars.

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Makes you wonder.. at some point, probably not too far off, you could have a camera built into glasses or just hung on your ear that records everything you do. Uploading to the Cloud whenever in contact. (Privacy? What that?)

I'm actually surprised that built in recording is not yet standard on cars.

Reckon it is something the manufacturers are already looking at.

Integrated dashcams

Android radio/video/GPS Units which will speak directly to your phone + more. There are already some crap Chinese models (to fit any motor) available.

10 years ago bluetooth comms built into motors was unheard of but as soon as the no phone use in cars came about it was developed quite quickly.

These thinks are are constantly under revision and soon a battle will evolve between the o/s providers as to who can provide ' the best experience'. google with its glasses thing and it driverless cars are getting into this in a big way. Google of course is also android.

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What would be the line on non-working brakelights vs dashboard camera showing them not working?

I'd speculate that an insurer would take a sensible view as to whether the rear-ending, dashcam-equipped driver was making a reasonable attempt to keep a sensible distance from the criminals' car at the moment the latter's driver slammed on the anchors. If the previous half an hour of dashcam footage revealed the victim to have been driving like an aggressively tailgating idiot anyway, I imagine that would lead the insurer to declare the "accident" a case of six of one and half a dozen of the other.

Personally, if I were a criminal trying to stage a "crash for cash" accident, I would do so in front of a driver who was aggressively tailgating me anyway, and be very careful to try not to involve someone who appears to be a careful and fastidious driver. It's not as if there is a shortage of idiots to choose from! And the chances are that if you pick such an idiot, s/he is likely to have a track record of accident insurance claims against them and/or convictions for minor driving offences (e.g. speeding points) anyway, which will make it more likely that an insurer will blame them without bothering to investigate thoroughly.

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Personally, if I were a criminal trying to stage a "crash for cash" accident, I would do so in front of a driver who was aggressively tailgating me anyway, and be very careful to try not to involve someone who appears to be a careful and fastidious driver. It's not as if there is a shortage of idiots to choose from! And the chances are that if you pick such an idiot, s/he is likely to have a track record of accident insurance claims against them and/or convictions for minor driving offences (e.g. speeding points) anyway, which will make it more likely that an insurer will blame them without bothering to investigate thoroughly.

They might not have insurance at all though.

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