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Should You Ask Someone's Permission To Kiss Them?

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27831626

Over recent months, there's been a string of headlines about "inappropriate" sexual behaviour and when it tips over into being unlawful. Where are the lines of consent, asks Jo Fidgen.

Should you ask someone's permission to kiss them?

To many it seems the rules around relationships are changing, and the consequences of getting things wrong can be serious.

At the trial of Conservative MP Nigel Evans earlier this year, the court was told that he had tried to kiss someone, been rebuffed, and had backed off. This was regarded by the Crown Prosecution Service as potentially criminal. Evans was acquitted.

But the case prompted the question of where we draw the line between a clumsy pass and a sexual offence.

..

The debate about consent and how it should be established is raging on both sides of the Atlantic. Just this week in California, a law is being debated that will bring in new rules on university campuses to make it clear that both parties to a sexual encounter must give "affirmative consent".

The bill says there must be "an affirmative, unambiguous, and conscious decision by each participant to engage in mutually agreed-upon sexual activity". It goes on to say: "Lack of protest or resistance does not mean consent, nor does silence mean consent."

It's generated intense debate on news sites and blogs. Some have speculated that written permission might be needed before sex. Others have referred to the 1993 controversy over "ask first" policies initiated at Antioch College which asked for consent that was "(a) verbal, (B) mutual, and © reiterated for every new level of sexual behaviour". Antioch's much-discussed policy gave a hypothetical: "Yes, I want to kiss you also."

...

The law in the UK is set out in the Equality Act 2010. It describes sexual harassment as "unwanted conduct of a sexual nature", which "has the purpose or effect of… creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment".

Note that "purpose or effect". You do not have to set out to harass someone to be guilty of doing so. Sexual harassment is a civil matter, not a criminal one, so you can be liable regardless of your intention.

So should you acquire verbal, written and video consent before doing anything?

To avoid harassment cases should you also acquire verbal consent to a conversation? Although in asking for that are you in fact harassing the individual to have a conversation they don't want? O god this is quickly becoming a social minefield. Far better to be socially inept and never speak to anyone.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27831626

So should you acquire verbal, written and video consent before doing anything?

To avoid harassment cases should you also acquire verbal consent to a conversation? Although in asking for that are you in fact harassing the individual to have a conversation they don't want? O god this is quickly becoming a social minefield. Far better to be socially inept and never speak to anyone.

This is very, very funny. The end result is a small number of alpha males, who can kiss anyone they like (and more) without any complaints. The other 8/10 males face a legal minefield.

Thank god I grew up when I did.

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This is why the CPS are so keen on the celeb show trials. They mostly consist of casting couch offers (Waxy Maxy), or uncorroborated accusations of "he touched me" (Rolf Harris). TPTB want to send the message that anything a woman doesn't like, is a criminal offense. Even total fantasy made-up stuff for revenge or compo is prosecuted. I have frequent arguments with a feminist friend, a very touchy-feely woman, that every time she greets me and hugs and tries to kiss me, that it is now deemed INAPPROPRIATE. She just does not get the message. She thinks the rules only apply to "creepy" men.

I await the day one of her two sons are accused of harassment. Her husband already has been accused of "abuse" (he is a teacher - but it was dealt with inside the school. The other pupils say the accuser made it up because of poor exam results). The strange thing is, my friend is a really nice person with a strong moral code, but she can't see through the feminist propaganda. She still believes women don't lie.....

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This is why the CPS are so keen on the celeb show trials. They mostly consist of casting couch offers (Waxy Maxy), or uncorroborated accusations of "he touched me" (Rolf Harris). TPTB want to send the message that anything a woman doesn't like, is a criminal offense. Even total fantasy made-up stuff for revenge or compo is prosecuted. I have frequent arguments with a feminist friend, a very touchy-feely woman, that every time she greets me and hugs and tries to kiss me, that it is now deemed INAPPROPRIATE. She just does not get the message. She thinks the rules only apply to "creepy" men.

I await the day one of her two sons are accused of harassment. Her husband already has been accused of "abuse" (he is a teacher - but it was dealt with inside the school. The other pupils say the accuser made it up because of poor exam results). The strange thing is, my friend is a really nice person with a strong moral code, but she can't see through the feminist propaganda. She still believes women don't lie.....

I have been the victim of this for two years - the Polish nutter I have referred to on the scrapper birds thread. This loon has even created fake skype conversations and has sent them to my friends and family :ph34r:

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She believes women don't lie !! Wtf

That's insane. When it comes to lying - its a close call - but burds win it by a nose.

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This is very, very funny. The end result is a small number of alpha males, who can kiss anyone they like (and more) without any complaints. The other 8/10 males face a legal minefield.

Thank god I grew up when I did.

Exactly - any guy who knows anything about women knows asking one that you are in the process of seducing "um....can I kiss you?" or "umm....do you like me?" would be a huge turn off and in a lot of cases get a 'No' response from someone who wouldn't have had a problem with you just making the move.

Terrible that some young men without experience with women might read this kinda crap and think that this is how you deal with the opposite sex.

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Remember - the aim of the feminist movement (and for women in general, though most may not be aware of it) is to completely restrict in so far as is possible male sexuality and male relations/options, while opening up as widely as possible the sexual rights and powers of women.

Unrestrained female sexuality and Hypergamy is what they seek. Combined with the restriction and effective neutering of 80-90% of men.

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Strangely, I was seduced by quite a few women in my youth. Mainly because I was too shy to make the first move..

They probably thought you nice! :blink: I believe women can feel rejected too, if you don't take the bait! But obviously you did, and I hope you gave them a very nice night in! You shouldn't need permission to be spontaneous, otherwise that spoils the surprise! :(

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Remember - the aim of the feminist movement (and for women in general, though most may not be aware of it) is to completely restrict in so far as is possible male sexuality and male relations/options, while opening up as widely as possible the sexual rights and powers of women.

Unrestrained female sexuality and Hypergamy is what they seek. Combined with the restriction and effective neutering of 80-90% of men.

The 'funny' thing is while feminazi's are busy gutting the western male, Islam is outbreeding the rest of the world two to one. 40 years ago Iran was a relatively progressive, secular society. Iraq to an extent too, until the islamists took over/ or bliar decided wahhabists are better than saddam. Wonder what Britain will look like in another 40 years time, when half the population is Islamic and a solid majority under 30s islamic.

When the feminazis actually mention Islam by name, might change my tune. It isnt feminists against male's, its about sanity against Islam.

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The 'funny' thing is while feminazi's are busy gutting the western male, Islam is outbreeding the rest of the world two to one. 40 years ago Iran was a relatively progressive, secular society. Iraq to an extent too, until the islamists took over/ or bliar decided wahhabists are better than saddam. Wonder what Britain will look like in another 40 years time, when half the population is Islamic and a solid majority under 30s islamic.

When the feminazis actually mention Islam by name, might change my tune. It isnt feminists against male's, its about sanity against Islam.

I don't think feminists would like "Strict Islam"! Mr Saddam was a brilliant customer, until "somebody" decided he was not!

Islam will not come up through my toilet, now I have dumped the remains of a good Chinese pork curry!

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You definitely should ask permission....if you never want a kiss ever again.

I believe this is an appropriate juncture to post this funny SNL sketch:

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You definitely should ask permission....if you never want a kiss ever again.

I believe this is an appropriate juncture to post this funny SNL sketch:

ha! beat me to it.

this is what happens when feminist ideology goes unchallenged and no notice of innate sex differences is allowed.

sadly, i think most (esp.. young) males are now so propagandized that they no longer have the words to voice their disapproval with the dominant agenda; nor even recognize it as such.

on the other hand, here's a guy who calls women on their assumptions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejBEVT8_gHk

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Strangely, I was seduced by quite a few women in my youth. Mainly because I was too shy to make the first move..

I think this is quite common. Something nice about a shy guy whose just real, not too cocky or full of him self...

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I think this is quite common. Something nice about a shy guy whose just real, not too cocky or full of him self...

Oh dear! That was my problem then? :blink:

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snip..

on the other hand, here's a guy who calls women on their assumptions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejBEVT8_gHk

I was disappointed by the quality of the debate going on there - and I don't think it does men any favours. You had a moderator who basically allowed one side to harangue the other for 30 mins. He made a couple of interesting points but basically lost me completely when asserting that women weren't as smart as men. Some of his arguments came dangerously close to describing women as inferior lifeforms.

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I was disappointed by the quality of the debate going on there - and I don't think it does men any favours. You had a moderator who basically allowed one side to harangue the other for 30 mins. He made a couple of interesting points but basically lost me completely when asserting that women weren't as smart as men. Some of his arguments came dangerously close to describing women as inferior lifeforms.

Yes, he's a bit of a bully. I was specifically referring to his refusal to allow feminist perspectives to frame his debates, which is unusual.

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Yes, he's a bit of a bully. I was specifically referring to his refusal to allow feminist perspectives to frame his debates, which is unusual.

Agreed, there were one or two interesting points in the diatribe - but sadly he doesn't seem like a greater messenger for them.

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The main problem with court cases involving sexual consent is that in the vast majority of sexual encounters, it will be the word of one party against the other. So even if these silly rules about asking permission are introduced, how will it affect actual court cases?

Or will some sort of video/audio/third party of consent evidence be required? I find that unlikely, since few women, especially feminists would want a video of herself sh*gging being made available or another person to be in the room with them.

As someone pointed out, if this stuff becomes law, a lot of decent beta males will just be cowed into submission whereas a few alpha males will just ignore it and sh*g as normal.

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This whole minefield is easily avoided by going to a brothel and paying for sex. Just make sure you get a receipt before the act commences!

Intended legislation will make the purchase of sex illegal. Not the sale, however - women are always "victims" in the act. I'm not sure how TPTB intend to differentiate between cash services, and "in-kind" services, i.e. presents such as diamond rings.

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Intended legislation will make the purchase of sex illegal. Not the sale, however - women are always "victims" in the act. I'm not sure how TPTB intend to differentiate between cash services, and "in-kind" services, i.e. presents such as diamond rings.

Can't you just hide it in your expense form as "client entertainment"? Even if in this case you may be the "client", or John, as we like to say!

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Intended legislation will make the purchase of sex illegal. Not the sale, however - women are always "victims" in the act. I'm not sure how TPTB intend to differentiate between cash services, and "in-kind" services, i.e. presents such as diamond rings.

People have been trying to ban prostitution since time began. It's called the 'oldest profession' for a reason. They will never be able to because a court has to prove that cash was given for sexual favours, which is almost impossible. Instead, the law tends to concentrate on soliciting, living off immoral earnings and running a disorderly house, which are easier to prove. Every few years some reformer comes along as a 'Captain Save-a-Ho' but never manages to ban it.

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You definitely should ask permission....if you never want a kiss ever again.

I believe this is an appropriate juncture to post this funny SNL sketch:

Brilliant. The lovely Tina Fey. (oops, can I say that?) :unsure:

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