WSG Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 http://*******.com/9vn7f Seen this Tulip - Was in Western Mail this morning Cheers WSG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTBagain Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 At least they got taken to court. A couple of years ago no one would have cared less. There is still a threat in there for others who have lied to buy. The momentum is definately changing! Just give us high oil prices, pleeaaase! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assetpriceinflation Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 The court heard Dale now has around 400 houses left and he could lose them all. These are to be the subject of a confiscation hearing later this week after which Dale will be sentenced. Be great if you guys could keep us posted on the outcome of this hearing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 At least they got taken to court. A couple of years ago no one would have cared less. There is still a threat in there for others who have lied to buy. The momentum is definately changing! Hopefully, this is a sign that the courts are going after self-certs. There was a similar case just a few months ago with a Policeman here in Swansea. Dale, of Beverley Gardens, Bryncoch, started making the false applications after becoming bankrupt as an estate agent during the early 1990s' property crash. I like the above. Hopefully, more EAs will be able to say this about the 2006 crash! T he court heard Dale now has around 400 houses left and he could lose them all. These are to be the subject of a confiscation hearing later this week after which Dale will be sentenced. Interesting, as you know Port Talbot was one of the last places to be seeing dizzy HP rises this Summer. What happens if/when 400 properties come onto the market - a glut? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustrum_ridcully Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Interesting, as you know Port Talbot was one of the last places to be seeing dizzy HP rises this Summer. What happens if/when 400 properties come onto the market - a glut? Never understood why that happened Port Talbot is not my idea of a nice place to live - even the media was saying that if house prices fall places like Port Talbot will the the worst hit. I remember going for a job interview back in the 90's to the steelworks there - believe me I was very glad not to get the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurows Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Mr Evans said yesterday while Dale had co-operated with the police, some building societies had not because they wanted to avoid bad publicity.He added some building society documentation had even been destroyed. Dou you not think that if Building societies would go to these levels to avoid publicity (in dealings with the police) that they wouldn't lie and make figures up on their indexes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magictorch Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 (edited) Its stories like this that keep me sane and make me believe in our impartial Justice system. The truth ALWAYS comes out eventually. What scares me is : - the scale of the fraud; - how the banks bankrolled the whole scheme with limited checks; - the minimal sentencing of each person involved; - how someone who is bankrupt can do this???! (So will this happen all again in the next HPC??); - destruction of evidence involved within the case; - how 400 homes have been taken away from families; We wait in hope (Edited to include : until we are 69!) Edited December 1, 2005 by magictorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushroom Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 So, stealing money, aka fraud, by the pen, results in suspended and community sentences. When stealing money using a weapon will result in a custodial sentence. Truly the pen is mightier than the sword. I don't understand this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest consa Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 This is just the tip of the iceberg, how many more are there and how long till the are dragged out into the open??? this will only escalate the crash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serpico Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Peter Mandellson committed exactly the same crime, mortgage fraud, and got away with it, he did okay out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Sentencing yesterday, Judge Michael Burr said although there were multiple false applications all mortgage payments had been kept up so no-one made a loss. This part of the story shows the demand for rented houses; no one seems to be in trouble repaying mortgages. If this fellow can repay mortgage for 800 house, others too can. Therefore, there will be no forced sellers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005 Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 So, stealing money, aka fraud, by the pen, results in suspended and community sentences. When stealing money using a weapon will result in a custodial sentence. Truly the pen is mightier than the sword. I don't understand this. I agree - fraud is fraud. It is stealing and it is a criminal offence. Personally I feel that this type of stealing is often worse than shoplifting and petty theft. This bloke new exactly what he was doing. This was premeditated, calculated deception over a prolonged period of time in which he also dragged a number of his family and 'friends' (glad I don;t have friends like that) into this deception with him. It was motivated by pure greed and probably by a feeling that he somehow 'deserved' better than life had thrown at him. He was already a brancrupt - he knew he was not the greatest with money and business decisions so he had no right to feel that he deserved another chance. This was not a 'victimless crime' either. His actions will have dented confidence in the mortgage sector - took hundreds of homes out of the true market (and hence the true market value), supporting higher prices that priced young families out of owning a home. He also dragged a number of other people into this. It really p1sses me off that people who have money/education/positions of power etc get let off lighlty with crimes because they are somehow 'upstanding members' of the community - and I include business fraud in general here. There background and social standing should mean they get harshes sentences not less - they should and do no better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Sentencing yesterday, Judge Michael Burr said although there were multiple false applications all mortgage payments had been kept up so no-one made a loss. Personally I can't see what the problem was, no one lost out except this guy. Presumably if all his houses are confiscated the money will pass to the treasury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_duke_of_hazzard Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Peter Mandellson committed exactly the same crime, mortgage fraud, and got away with it, he did okay out of it. Debatable, since that was a private loan. It wasn't "exactly the same crime", though arguably still fraud and at the least disingenuous.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 LMAO! On Thursday Judge Michael Burr was asked to rule on how much of Dale's fortune should be confiscated. He said Dale must pay the equivalent of today's value of each of the 57 houses plus all rental income without any discount for mortgage payments made which, in total, is expected to amount to over £4m. The judge said he accepted the ruling contained a 'draconian' element but said he was not prepared to follow a prosecution request of seizing all 450 homes. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/4489662.stm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushroom Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Withhold oh, say, £50 of your council tax and you will go to jail. It's good to know that this State can recognise the real criminals worthy of incarceration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Dou you not think that if Building societies would go to these levels to avoid publicity (in dealings with the police) that they wouldn't lie and make figures up on their indexes. YES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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