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'you Will Never Lose With Property' Mentality Engrained

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Just been to a function today and couldn't help but earwig this conversation between an elderly chap (EC) in his mid 50s and an young guy (YG) in his early to mid 20s.

YG: yeah so I'm going to buy my Mums house for £250k less than its worth.

EC: yeah your Mum is very shrewd.

YG: it's the only way I can get a mortgage, plus my Dad is living there right now and he will pay me 400 quid a month in rent which will go towards the mortgage too.

EC: still got plans to get into BTL then?

YG: very much, I plan to borrow against the house in about 12 months time, get my first BTL on IO mortgage and then keep rolling it over and borrowing again on IO to build up my portfolio.

EC: make sure you go down the route of HMO, cram em in there for maximum return 6 or 8 to a house

(Said with a smile and a laugh, nods, smiles and laughs all round)

EC: student digs are best or places where newly graduated students want to live, I know someone making a 90% return on his investment (whatever that meant)

YG: yeah 90% is quite a good return! I plan to have at least a dozen houses within four years

EC: you're doing the right thing you can't go wrong with property.....

They then moved away, probably because they realised I was listening in to their conversation lol.

But anyway a little anecdotal and not one us on here would be or are particularly suprised about.

It is depressing, it is engrained and I don't think we'll be getting any HPC anytime soon.

BF

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Starting off by extracting rent from his own Dad. If he is made of the same stuff as the Wilson's he will turf his Dad out if he can get 20 quid extra from someone else.

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How do people actually do this (buy a house for much less than it is worth?). Is it easy to do? Who would actually check?

Wouldn't HMRC be interested? If you gift your son £250K by selling him a house at £250K below what they consider fair market value, I suspect they'd view it as an attempt to evade inheritance tax or CGT for the son...

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Wouldn't HMRC be interested? If you gift your son £250K by selling him a house at £250K below what they consider fair market value, I suspect they'd view it as an attempt to evade inheritance tax or CGT for the son...

and if there are care home fees down the line isn't it deprivation of assets?

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Just been to a function today and couldn't help but earwig this conversation between an elderly chap (EC) in his mid 50s

BF

Did make me laugh that line !! Anyway back to the Zimmer frame :)

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and if there are care home fees down the line isn't it deprivation of assets?

Yep but as my previous comment mid fifties isn't usually called elderly. Last 7 years and all bets are off re gifts

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Yep but as my previous comment mid fifties isn't usually called elderly. Last 7 years and all bets are off re gifts

Sorry didn't see the age, just assumed elderly!

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Sorry didn't see the age, just assumed elderly!

Lol believe you me being 52 is a massive shock every day - some old geezer looking out at me from the mirror every morning !

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Just been to a function today and couldn't help but earwig this conversation between an elderly chap (EC) in his mid 50s and an young guy (YG) in his early to mid 20s.

It is awful, but bear in mind you're earwigging foolish people who will not achieve the yields they expect. The yields will be achieved by those who finance and securitise their debt.

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It is depressing, it is engrained and I don't think we'll be getting any HPC anytime soon.

On the other hand your anecdote illustrates that it is nothing but leveraged speculation by idiots. If the premise is that "Prices are being set by idiots speculating with borrowed money" and the conclusion is "There will be no correction any time soon" then all that is missing is an argument to connect the premise to the conclusion, ;) .

I just do not buy the idea that these prices are stable.

Actually, I see the opposite. We now have two cohorts of speculators. Early entrant (1997-2003-ish) and late entrant (2003-ish to present).

The existence of the late entrant cohort means that the whole of the early entrant cohort will have the option to quit whilst they are ahead when price start backing up again - with predictable consequences.

The arrival of more leveraged idiots does not produce stability - it produces the opposite.

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Yep but as my previous comment mid fifties isn't usually called elderly. Last 7 years and all bets are off re gifts

I read that and smiled too, I wonder how "old" the OP is?

But:

"As far back as 1875, in Britain, the Friendly Societies Act, enacted the definition of old age as, "any age after 50", yet pension schemes mostly used age 60 or 65 years for eligibility. (Roebuck, 1979). "

These days 50 is the suggested threshold for beginning of old age / being described as elderly, for third world countries:

http://www.who.int/healthinfo/survey/ageingdefnolder/en/

There are many 50 year olds in developed countries who are fitter and healthier than the majority of 20 somethings.

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Sorry Greg, sorry JY and any anyone else in their 50s that was offended by being in their 50s referred to as elderly.

Probably should have said older guy.

I was going to refer to them as spiv 1 and spiv 2 but again I didn't want to offend.

The older guy was wearing red trousers if that makes a difference?

OP is 36 btw and the older chap I'd have put at 20yrs my senior at least, either that or he has aged very badly (maybe the stress of BTL).

BF

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Sorry Greg, sorry JY and any anyone else in their 50s that was offended by being in their 50s referred to as elderly.

Probably should have said older guy.

I was going to refer to them as spiv 1 and spiv 2 but again I didn't want to offend.

The older guy was wearing red trousers if that makes a difference?

OP is 36 btw and the older chap I'd have put at 20yrs my senior at least, either that or he has aged very badly (maybe the stress of BTL).

BF

No offence really only just joking, that old guy was looking at me in the mirror again! On the subject of BTL though I detest how it has got out of control and as a business owner of over 20 years believe it is almost a bigger evil than HPI and because of vested interests it's distortion of the housing market is vastly under reported.

Now where are my teeth............

Edited by Greg Bowman

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The BTL people farming mentality infests the young as much as it does the boomer generation. Sadly LabourTory loves them, panders to them, devises policy around them.

Edited by aSecureTenant

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One of the definitions of a bubble is the widespread belief that prices will rise bcos prices will rise

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Sorry Greg, sorry JY and any anyone else in their 50s that was offended by being in their 50s referred to as elderly.

Probably should have said older guy.

I was going to refer to them as spiv 1 and spiv 2 but again I didn't want to offend.

The older guy was wearing red trousers if that makes a difference?

OP is 36 btw and the older chap I'd have put at 20yrs my senior at least, either that or he has aged very badly (maybe the stress of BTL).

BF

No need to apologise, it was only the choice of words that's all! I was 34 when I first posted here and can see the half century looming. The main thing was the anecdote, and the red trousers.

Edited by JustYield

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The BTL people farming mentality infests the young as much as it does the boomer generation. Sadly LabourTory loves them, panders to them, devises policy around them.

But surely you end up with more being 'farmed' than those 'farming'. In voting terms it's not a winner (eventually)*

*Unless of course it's our equivalent of the American Dream, whereby you're classed as just jealous of those with all the BTLs if you're not part of 'the dream'.

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On the other hand your anecdote illustrates that it is nothing but leveraged speculation by idiots. If the premise is that "Prices are being set by idiots speculating with borrowed money" and the conclusion is "There will be no correction any time soon" then all that is missing is an argument to connect the premise to the conclusion, ;) .

I just do not buy the idea that these prices are stable.

Actually, I see the opposite. We now have two cohorts of speculators. Early entrant (1997-2003-ish) and late entrant (2003-ish to present).

The existence of the late entrant cohort means that the whole of the early entrant cohort will have the option to quit whilst they are ahead when price start backing up again - with predictable consequences.

The arrival of more leveraged idiots does not produce stability - it produces the opposite.

Spot on.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/mayhem-in-the-housing-market-9494894.html

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Yep but as my previous comment mid fifties isn't usually called elderly. Last 7 years and all bets are off re gifts

my doctor said in medical terms, I was a young man.

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Lol believe you me being 52 is a massive shock every day - some old geezer looking out at me from the mirror every morning !

Amen. Just turned 48.

Don't like.

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But surely you end up with more being 'farmed' than those 'farming'. In voting terms it's not a winner (eventually)*

*Unless of course it's our equivalent of the American Dream, whereby you're classed as just jealous of those with all the BTLs if you're not part of 'the dream'.

Sadly that is not how politics works or indeed how a voters mind works.

All the 'unpopular' party has to do is pick a populist policy, say anti immigration or anti EU. Dare say a lot of ex Labour voters voted for 'Tory of Tory' parties UKIP.

Dare say this is how Adolf came to power in Germany.

Oh dear I've Godwin'd the thread!

Also only a small subset of the electorate have cottoned on to the fact they are being farmed for someone elses pension. The other section of the electorate are still trying to become people farmers themselves. When they find themselves denied, they will be very angry.

Edited by aSecureTenant

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