Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
Sign in to follow this  
interestrateripoff

Exclusive: Labour Plans Big Rise In Nhs Spending

Recommended Posts

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/exclusive-labour-plans-big-risein-nhs-spending-9468344.html

Labour is drawing up plans to go into the next election with a manifesto pledge to increase NHS spending significantly should the party be returned to power, The Independent can reveal.

Ed Miliband and Ed Balls are examining options for how Labour could fund additional investment in health over and above current spending plans. Shadow Cabinet sources said no decision had yet been taken on how to fund the pledge, although one option is to introduce a ring-fenced rise in national insurance (NI) contributions both for employers and employees.

This would mirror Gordon Brown’s raising of NI by 1 per cent in 2002 to fund Labour’s last expansion of the NHS. It is understood this idea is being supported by Jon Cruddas who is leading Labour’s policy review. Another – less likely – option is to announce that Labour will delay the period over which the party commits itself to pay off the deficit in order to fund additional NHS spending.

A third option would be to fund much smaller increases in the NHS budget for the first few years of a Labour government while the deficit is paid off – with a commitment to then use all the savings as GDP grows to increase investment in the NHS at the end of the parliament.

Senior Labour figures recognise that all three options could present potential problems for the party. Raising NI would allow the Conservatives to accuse Labour of planning a “tax bombshell”, while delaying paying down the deficit would feed into the argument that the party is still fiscally irresponsible.

Great news for highly paid NHS managers more money to waste! Unlikely that the money would be used to recruit the staff the NHS needs. Although the increase in funding may just end up covering PFI costs...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/exclusive-labour-plans-big-risein-nhs-spending-9468344.html

Great news for highly paid NHS managers more money to waste! Unlikely that the money would be used to recruit the staff the NHS needs. Although the increase in funding may just end up covering PFI costs...

Yes, cancelling some of the PFI contracts would make far more sense, and probably be cheaper.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They managed to triple spending from £35bn in 1997 to £110bn in 2007, in that time the national median wage didnt even go up by half, cut the number of beds by 50%, and think thats a good result?

The trouble is the proles think health spending can never be bad or too much, cos it saves lives, innit, and cant quite deduce more inputs doesnt always equal more outputs. The hugely overfunded yank health industry tells a different story. Oh well, at least such unsustainable spending increases means the NHS will collapse under its own weight sooner rather than later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the NHS just to stand still spending needs to increase by 4% per annum thru to 2030 due to the aging population. So it either needs reorganising, different sources of funding (top up insurance), rationing based on age etc or all of the above and that is just to stand still. Miliband is maybe recognizing that reality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Makes sense, but it's the care bill they need to focus on funding.

I thought the pensioners were going to have start liquidating their assets for care costs? Surely that's a good thing for HPC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another - less likely - option is to announce that Labour will delay the period over which the party intends to commit itself to pay off the deficit.

Whiff of Abenomics in the air? A vigorous expansion of the QE remit? Better believe it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shadow Cabinet sources said no decision had yet been taken on how to fund the pledge, although one option is to introduce a ring-fenced rise in national insurance (NI) contributions both for employers and employees.

No doubt this is the one they will go for. Increased tax on working people and businesses to pay for increased spending on retired people. The grey voters (with all the assets) once more protected from the demographic crunch. It won't end well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the NHS just to stand still spending needs to increase by 4% per annum thru to 2030 due to the aging population. So it either needs reorganising, different sources of funding (top up insurance), rationing based on age etc or all of the above and that is just to stand still.

I think more fundamentally we need to work out what it is actually for; is it going to be a gold standard service providing the latest treatments regardless of cost or is it going to be a basic safety net offering cost effective treatments in limited areas with those who can afford to paying for insurance on top.

We also need a grown up debate about what is affordable. Can the country afford to spend 7-8% of GDP and rising or more precisely £1 in 5 of all tax revenue on the NHS alongside pensions, other welfare payments and still have enough left for other areas of government spending. Based on the current state of the public finances I seriously doubt it.

Chances of either happening in the forseeable future = 0.

Miliband is maybe recognizing that reality.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Makes sense, but it's the care bill they need to focus on funding.

...and the growing mental health problems....they should also not be so liberal in the perscribing so many expensive pills and potions, sometimes keeping people on them for so long without reviewing...total waste of money and not always doing good often doing more harm than good or doing nothing at all, all at great expense....they should also reuse the expensive equipment that they do not bother to collect.....sometimes they run it like there is a bottomless pit of money...patients can notice the waste on the frontline, must be far worse where it can't be seen......they should also charge a £10 fee to people that do not keep appointments and who do not cancel within 24 hours.....time wasters, when someone who really needs to be seen can't be seen because of the people who because it is free take it for granted.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would seem as if Axelrod has found his feet and is starting to move the pieces around the board.

He knows Labour are not going to romp home in the charisma dept.

He also knows there is a good chance of the economy improving as the election draws nearer.

He is therefore left with punching below the gut (personal smears / attacks / gimmicks) or abandoning the 'political' (i.e. ideological) high gound to shamelessly buy votes.

Clearly he has chosen to start with the latter since coffin-dodgers all over the country will applaud this measure and it will draw back some of the reactionaries from UKIP, who have now blown it by publicising their aim of cutting the top rate of tax.

Say what you like about the tactics, Axelrod's clearly very good at his job

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Makes sense, but it's the care bill they need to focus on funding.

they need to focus on earning before they start spending.period.

central planning and micromanagement do not produce earning, they drive it away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They managed to triple spending from £35bn in 1997 to £110bn in 2007, in that time the national median wage didnt even go up by half, cut the number of beds by 50%, and think thats a good result?

The trouble is the proles think health spending can never be bad or too much, cos it saves lives, innit, and cant quite deduce more inputs doesnt always equal more outputs. The hugely overfunded yank health industry tells a different story. Oh well, at least such unsustainable spending increases means the NHS will collapse under its own weight sooner rather than later.

if anything the care has got worse.

the doctors now have this queue phone in thingy that's permanently engaged.takes days to get an appointment.

they try to do too much and they do all of that too much extremely badly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would seem as if Axelrod has found his feet ..

Interesting point about Axelrod.

Still over-promising before an election and under-delivering after is a route to electoral oblivion, ask F.Hollande and Clegg about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FFS! This is why no one should vote Labour.

I don't know why it is in this country that the NHS is seen as beyond reproach. Yes, there are some good, hardworking doctors, nurses and healthcare professionals that save lives. However, there is also massive waste and inefficiency which should be thoroughly reviewed and processes revised before anything else is spent. There was a good programme on BBC2 a few years back where Gerry Robinson went to a hospital and found that all the surgeons take Fridays off to play golf so all of the operating theatres were sitting idle!

It's an absolute joke of an organisation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FFS! This is why no one should vote Labour.

I don't know why it is in this country that the NHS is seen as beyond reproach. Yes, there are some good, hardworking doctors, nurses and healthcare professionals that save lives. However, there is also massive waste and inefficiency which should be thoroughly reviewed and processes revised before anything else is spent. There was a good programme on BBC2 a few years back where Gerry Robinson went to a hospital and found that all the surgeons take Fridays off to play golf so all of the operating theatres were sitting idle!

It's an absolute joke of an organisation.

Its like the military in the US. Cant criticize the army as its 'unpatriotic' Cant criticize the NHS because its a 'national treasure' or somesuch emotive guff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting point about Axelrod.

Still over-promising before an election and under-delivering after is a route to electoral oblivion, ask F.Hollande and Clegg about it.

Alexrod or mickey mouse, the next election is labours for the taking. Centre left lib dem votes returning to labour, centre right split by UKIP like never before. Labour can get an outright majority with far fewer votes than tories. I did think the libdem votes would go green given how much liebour screwed up the previous 13 years, but it seems not. If they dont win, Miliband should be taken out back and shot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's politics isn't it? Focus group-driven. Labour the party of the NHS. Two questions: where is the money coming from and what other areas are going to be cut.

A hell of a lot of money was squandered under Labour on the NHS; waste, easy money for some, mismanagement, incompetence, murder, and lots of lovely crippling debt to get those photo opps. Blindly throwing money at stuff is never the answer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think more fundamentally we need to work out what it is actually for; is it going to be a gold standard service providing the latest treatments regardless of cost or is it going to be a basic safety net offering cost effective treatments in limited areas with those who can afford to paying for insurance on top.

Exactly this.

The NHS was formed on the basis that it would provide all healthcare. However, since the inception of that idea, things have change substantially, and it is no longer feasible:

1. We have now have complex, high-technology, expensive treatments available. They are more capable than ever before, but also much more expensive.

2. There has been a dramatic change in the way in demand for social care and the way in which it is provided.

40 years ago, treatments were simple - simple, easy to obtain drugs, basic surgical procedures requiring low-tech instruments and low-tech life support. These days we have more effective drugs, but the costs are substantial; surgical procedures are more complex, surgical instruments are more advanced and implants are more advanced. There is a greater range of conditions that can now be treated, so conditions which would never have been treated, now have high-tech treatment options available.

As technology and skills develop, this issue is only going to get worse - the "best" treatment available is only going to become more expensive.

The other issue is social care - people are living longer, and they are frailer in their old-age than ever before. There are more elderly now, and a greater proportion of the them require a higher level of assistance. The problem is made worse by the fact, that increasing financial demands on the younger generation mean that care within the family is not economically or socially feasible, even if it would be practically feasible (i.e. not requiring specially trained staff).

A redefinition of what the NHS provides is the only way to deal with this problem, which is only going to get catastrophically worse within the next 20 years. Throwing more money isn't the answer; the NHS was unable to absorb nulabour's funding boost leading to considerable waste and poorly thought out plans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   203 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.