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Rbs In Trouble - Taxpayers Could Lose Out --Merged Threads

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they poured £49bn taxpayers money down that rat hole, and the question essentially is : should we rather have gone ALL IN! ? What? !

This is why these guys are mps or civil servants , they have no clue and could not cut it in the real world.

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I STR'd a south-east house in 2005. Yes, I know, stupid of me but there you go.

In fact it all worked out for the best as I stuck most of it into the very bottom of stock market, but there were some nervous moments before that when I was sitting on a large amount of cash and it looked like the banking system might fall over.

I don't have nearly as much cash any more, but still enough that the government guarantee limit won't help much, however what I do have is in RBS. Guess I should be thinking about going through the enormous faff all over again of opening new accounts and spreading it around.

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I STR'd a south-east house in 2005. Yes, I know, stupid of me but there you go.

In fact it all worked out for the best as I stuck most of it into the very bottom of stock market, but there were some nervous moments before that when I was sitting on a large amount of cash and it looked like the banking system might fall over.

I don't have nearly as much cash any more, but still enough that the government guarantee limit won't help much, however what I do have is in RBS. Guess I should be thinking about going through the enormous faff all over again of opening new accounts and spreading it around.

I really don't know what to say to this. If you consider it an enormous faff to spend a few hours insuring tens of thousands of pounds then you are a fool. I'm well under the limit but only keep a slush fund in the banks. I don't even trust the governments scheme. Edited by honkydonkey

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One acquaintance is quoted as saying: “Fred wanted to live like Aristotle Onassis on other people’s money.”......That, in itself, was an error easily as bad as any committed by Goodwin. So he is right. We can’t just blame it all on him.”

The excuse-givers (especially 2008-2010) for buyers paying ever higher ridiculous prices, 2001-2007, are who I blame the most.

My brothers/sister, all their friends, all highly trained - high expertise people, looking at ridiculous property prices for even the most basic of homes - because of the crying/breakdowns people had for those who chose to massively over-leverage, pushing up values for BTLers, older owners. Now it's just gotten worse, with more Bomad and more BTLers and more craziness, and more years in renting against it all.

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I STR'd a south-east house in 2005. Yes, I know, stupid of me but there you go.

In fact it all worked out for the best as I stuck most of it into the very bottom of stock market, but there were some nervous moments before that when I was sitting on a large amount of cash and it looked like the banking system might fall over.

I don't have nearly as much cash any more, but still enough that the government guarantee limit won't help much, however what I do have is in RBS. Guess I should be thinking about going through the enormous faff all over again of opening new accounts and spreading it around.

Will it be any safer spreading it around other banks and B.S. if the brown stuff hits the fan? Will the £85k really be honoured?

In fact where can you tuck it away? There is a possible correction due in the stock market, precious metals, the housing market and so on. Bitcoin comes with risks. Is there such a thing as a truly safe haven?

Must admit to a little nervousness at times!

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I really don't know what to say to this. If you consider it an enormous faff to spend a few hours insuring tens of thousands of pounds then you are a fool. I'm well under the limit but only keep a slush fund in the banks. I don't even trust the governments scheme.

It is an enormous faff. It's one of the reasons I don't like bank accounts and tend towards equities, gold, bitcoin and some actual physical cash.

If you've got a decent wedge spread around, you need to keep it moving to get respectable rates (well, sort of). If you've got several accounts it's a royal pain in the **** to wade through the KYC mire every few months.

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It is an enormous faff. It's one of the reasons I don't like bank accounts and tend towards equities, gold, bitcoin and some actual physical cash.

If you've got a decent wedge spread around, you need to keep it moving to get respectable rates (well, sort of). If you've got several accounts it's a royal pain in the **** to wade through the KYC mire every few months.

Better than having it tied up in a house though, at least you can move it quickly if necessary.

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Better than having it tied up in a house though, at least you can move it quickly if necessary.

Yes, but move it to where that is safe? I exclude the mattress.

I am seeking concrete answers here!

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Yes, but move it to where that is safe? I exclude the mattress.

I am seeking concrete answers here!

That would depend on the reason for moving it and what is available at the time. Nothing is ever 100% safe, but off the top of my head.....

If I was worried about one bank, I could move it to another.

If I was worried about Sterling, I could move it to another currency.

If I was worried about all currencies I may consider precious metals, or gem stones, or many other things.

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That would depend on the reason for moving it and what is available at the time. Nothing is ever 100% safe, but off the top of my head.....

If I was worried about one bank, I could move it to another.

If I was worried about Sterling, I could move it to another currency.

If I was worried about all currencies I may consider precious metals, or gem stones, or many other things.

Are any of your options safer than doing nothing?

If the SHTF is any bank safer than any other? Is the £85k threshold untouchable?

Which currency? Is the US dollar or the Euro any safer than Sterling?

PMs have gone through a correction. They may be due another! The same may be said about stocks and shares.

Would you be able to respond quickly enough and without hindrance?

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That would depend on the reason for moving it and what is available at the time. Nothing is ever 100% safe, but off the top of my head.....

If I was worried about one bank, I could move it to another.

If I was worried about Sterling, I could move it to another currency.

If I was worried about all currencies I may consider precious metals, or gem stones, or many other things.

Are any of your options safer than doing nothing?

If the SHTF is any bank safer than any other? Is the £85k threshold untouchable?

Which currency? Is the US dollar or the Euro any safer than Sterling?

PMs have gone through a correction. They may be due another! The same may be said about stocks and shares.

Would you be able to respond quickly enough and without hindrance?

It seems that you missed the first line of my post.

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It seems that you missed the first line of my post.

No I read all of your post.

I am not at all expert in matters financial, and was genuinely seeking advice from those that are.

I didn't mean to hijack this thread but saw it as an opportunity to run with the main theme and possibly get some helpful advice in these potentially worrying times.

I pick up on the various nuances of what is going on worldwide and think what if? Is there any way to protect savings. I end up going round in circles because I cannot see any way forward.

Edited by Alba

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well who knows....are we safe and secure.....we all rely on the system like it or not..we are all in it together....sink or swim...no man is an island

Edited by GinAndPlatonic

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No I read all of your post.

I am not at all expert in matters financial, and was genuinely seeking advice from those that are.

I didn't mean to hijack this thread but saw it as an opportunity to run with the main theme and possibly get some helpful advice in these potentially worrying times.

I pick up on the various nuances of what is going on worldwide and think what if? Is there any way to protect savings. I end up going round in circles barbecue I cannot see any way forward.

Sorry, but I can't help.

I'm currently 100% liquid cash because I feel it gives me the greatest flexibility to react to whatever happens in the economy in these uncertain times, but that's me, others may disagree.

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Royal Bank is closing 3 branches in my area, Dumfries and Galloway and reinstating mobile (vehicle) banking!

I used to be a branch worker and still have my account there. Not much in it as I don't have much spare so won't be closing it..

Took my small pension early so I don't know what will happen to that in the longer term.

Nothing in life is safe or secure.

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i 1/6/14

'British taxpayers risk losing their entire £45bn stake in Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) which is in grave danger of failing within 10 years, according to an explosive new book.

A new study of the disgraced bank, which brought the UK to the brink of financial ruin, reveals RBS still has a £100bn “black hole” in its finances due to “five broad areas of alleged criminality and wrongdoing”.

They include the mis-selling of financial products such as payment protection insurance, the alleged duping of investors who were persuaded to plough more than £12bn into RBS shares just before the banking crash in 2008, further fallout from the Libor scandal, and current criminal investigations into the manipulation of the £3trn-a-day foreign exchange markets.

Shredded: Inside RBS, The Bank That Broke Britain, by the financial journalist Ian Fraser, concludes that the governments led by Gordon Brown and David Cameron have “let the people of Britain down” by failing to reform RBS after it received its mammoth bailout under the stewardship of former chief executive Fred “The Shred” Goodwin.

“The result has been that, at the time of writing, RBS is probably a worse bank than it was under Fred Goodwin,” Fraser said. “If the right moves are now made, RBS could become a great bank again. If they’re not, I doubt it will even exist in 10 years’ time.

“Whatever happens, it now seems impossible that British taxpayers will ever see a return on their £45.5bn investment in the bank,” he writes in the book.

RBS is under the spotlight again Fraser analyses the bank’s extraordinary largesse under Goodwin, whom, he claims, squandered billions of pounds on overpriced acquisitions, fleets of Mercedes and extravagant buildings and decor.

The book also claims that Goodwin and his wife, Joyce, avoided tens of thousands of pounds in personal tax liabilities over their repeated use of a controversial £20m private jet bought by RBS in 2002.

Fraser says the Goodwins’ excessive trips on the Dassault Falcon 900EX executive jet led Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs to conclude that it should be taxed as a “benefit in kind”.

Fraser writes :“To avoid this, ex-insiders claim the bank transferred ownership of the corporate jet from the Royal Bank of Scotland Group to RBS’s Lombard Aviation leasing subsidiary. This gave the impression that the Falcon 900EX was not just a personal plaything and dedicated air taxi for the chief executive, but was chartered out to third parties on a regular basis.”

The book claims “most senior RBS executives dreaded going on the plane with Goodwin because of his lack of social skills”. The plane was configured to include a bedroom for Goodwin, which caused a few problems for his co-passengers on long-distance flights, it is claimed.

“Executives who did travel overnight with Goodwin were obliged to sit up all night while Fred reclined in regal splendour in his bedroom aft,” Fraser writes. “The arrangement was a double inconvenience since, once Goodwin had gone to bed, the plane’s only toilet became inaccessible, because you had to pass through his private suite to reach it. ‘We’d be sitting there cross-legged all night,’ said one.”

According to Fraser, former RBS chairman George Mathewson “almost had to plead” with Goodwin to have use of the jet, which had a maximum range of more than 5,000 miles, meaning it could comfortably fly non-stop from RBS headquarters in Edinburgh to Beijing and almost anywhere in the United States.

The book claims the RBS lavished vast amounts of its shareholders’ money to support the lifestyles of its top executives.

One acquaintance is quoted as saying: “Fred wanted to live like Aristotle Onassis on other people’s money.”

Fraser quotes one former RBS insider who criticised the amount of money the bank spent on sponsorship of motor sport. “The amounts of money that were wasted on Formula One were shocking,” he said. “The bank spent about £28m in the first year of the Williams sponsorship.

“There was no logic to it at all – it was just a vanity thing for Fred and because he liked motor sport.

However, Fraser claims the “true villains of the piece” are the “politicians, central bankers, regulators and the Basel Committee on Banking Supervision” who allowed people like Goodwin believe they could “get away with virtually anything, whilst defying financial gravity and existing above the law”.

Fraser writes: “Morality and ethics were thrown out the window and we saw the mis-selling of rip-off products on an epic scale – including the scandals of payment protection insurance and interest-rate swap agreements sold to small- and medium-sized enterprises.

“The Treasury, the FSA [Financial Services Authority] and the Bank of England all turned a deaf ear to the complaints from the banks’ millions of ‘victims’ and paid scant heed to the overall balance-sheet strength – capital, liquidity and asset quality – of British banks.

“And, at various stages between 1988 and 2008, British politicians also outsourced critical aspects of banking regulation and supervision to the private sector body, the Basel Committee on Banking Supervision, which enabled the bankers to write their own rules. That, in itself, was an error easily as bad as any committed by Goodwin. So he is right. We can’t just blame it all on him.”

Shredded claims the culture at RBS is still as “poisonous” as ever, and quotes one City expert who claims the bank was manipulating its finances in 2012 in order to give the impression it could be returned to private ownership.

Tim Bush, head of governance and financial analysis at corporate governance watchdog Pensions and Investments Research Consultants is reported to have told Fraser: “My analysis was that RBS was aggressively puffing all the numbers in the hope of a quick and dirty sale.” Fraser said Bush’s view was confirmed in June 2013 when regulator the Prudential Regulation Authority identified a further £13.6bn capital black hole at RBS.

Fraser paints a bleak picture for the future of Britain’s biggest bank and, as a result, the UK economy.

He concludes: “If there is to be one lesson from the RBS catastrophe from an internal company perspective, it is that Britain’s much vaunted system of corporate governance is broken and is in need of an urgent overhaul.”'

Edited by Sancho Panza

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Goodwin should be brought before the courts.

Misconduct in public office would do for a start. If they can find something stronger (like murder) then all the better.

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None of it is at all shocking any more. The politico-economic leadership on this planet is rotten to its core.

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"We must get behind the bankers" David Cameron

Boris Johnson just loves them too.

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