Police Officers Accused As Low-Caste Teenage Girls Are 'gang-Raped And Hung From A Tree' In India

[geezer466]

Just for the record, since you all seem determined to miss the point of my post:

I think the treatment of women in India, Saudi Arabia and many other countries is generally appalling, and I don't hesitate to condemn it absolutely. The world would be a better place if such atrocious behaviour could be stamped out, and I strongly support all efforts to do so.

And I am perfectly sure everyone here agrees 100% with your view.

We must always be on our guard though that such attitudes do not become the norm in our so called civilised society.

If someone had said to me 30 years ago that London would see election abuses on a par with a banana republic I would have laughed at them. It's all a big slippery slope.

[whitevanman]

Do you have some sort of comprehension problem? I've stated that the culprits should be caught and punished, and that the greatest efforts should be made to prevent such horrors from happening again. How is that appeasement or moral relativism?

Good. Do you agree that our culture is better than theirs and that the large scale importation or their culture to these shores is bad for this country and its people?

[winkie]

Just for the record, since you all seem determined to miss the point of my post:

I think the treatment of women in India, Saudi Arabia and many other countries is generally appalling, and I don't hesitate to condemn it absolutely. The world would be a better place if such atrocious behaviour could be stamped out, and I strongly support all efforts to do so.

It will be eradicated absolutely....what goes around comes around....an educated civilised society will not stand for it.

[snowflux]

Good. Do you agree that our culture is better than theirs and that the large scale importation or their culture to these shores is bad for this country and its people?

Well I certainly don't have any admiration for the caste system. It's a relic from the past and should be eradicated as soon as possible. Other aspects of Hinduism aren't so bad, such as the vegetarianism, peace and rejection of materialism. On the whole, though, so long as people respect the laws of the land and behave with consideration towards others, I don't really see a problem.

[Turned Out Nice Again]

What I don't agree with is your attempts to define whole cultures in terms of their criminal elements.

How do you feel about "defining whole cultures" in terms of what is sanctioned by their *non-criminal* majority? Eg. The recent stoning to death of a woman outside a Pakistani court; regular "honour" killings; routine cruelty to animals; female genital mutilation.

I brought up the Comanche and Apache cultures of brutality in another thread. Do you know anything about the Spartans? How about the Mongol Horde?

I deliberately excluded The British Empire, US Manifest Destiny and the evil Naaaaazis from the list as they are obviously fair game for group condemnation by Right-thinking leftists.

[snowflux]

How do you feel about "defining whole cultures" in terms of what is sanctioned by their *non-criminal* majority? Eg. The recent stoning to death of a woman outside a Pakistani court; regular "honour" killings; routine cruelty to animals; female genital mutilation.

I brought up the Comanche and Apache cultures of brutality in another thread. Do you know anything about the Spartans? How about the Mongol Horde?

I deliberately excluded The British Empire, US Manifest Destiny and the evil Naaaaazis from the list as they are obviously fair game for group condemnation by Right-thinking leftists.

Just to take your first example: The recent stoning to death of a woman outside a Pakistani court was a criminal act, and the perpetrators are either under arrest or being sought by the police. This murder was not sanctioned by the majority. This is exactly what I mean by people falsely assuming that newspaper stories are necessarily representative of normal life.

[Turned Out Nice Again]

Your post reads like a bland "right on" line from a school text book.

Pretty much true of all of Snowy's posts. I've never seen him take a dissident position on any Left orthodoxy.

[snowflux]

Pretty much true of all of Snowy's posts. I've never seen him take a dissident position on any Left orthodoxy.

I try to argue from a rational point of view, and I don't think of myself as being either right or left wing. If I come over as sounding "lefty", it's probably just in relation to the majority political orientation on this forum. I'm a natural contrarian at heart.

[Turned Out Nice Again]

Just to take your first example: The recent stoning to death of a woman outside a Pakistani court was a criminal act, and the perpetrators are either under arrest or being sought by the police.

Maybe now they've been internationally shamed.

'The husband of a Pakistani woman stoned to death by her own family in broad daylight outside a Lahore court says police just stood by during the attack.

Farzana Parveen, who was three months pregnant, was pelted with bricks and bludgeoned by relatives furious because she married against their wishes.

"They watched Farzana being killed and did nothing," her husband, Muhammad Iqbal, told the BBC.'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-27614359

[snowflux]

Also to clarify: I do think that Western culture has come a long way over the past few centuries and that we have a lot to be proud of with regard to our treatment of women and minorities. That doesn't mean the job's finished yet though.

[Turned Out Nice Again]

Also to clarify: I do think that Western culture has come a long way over the past few centuries and that we have a lot to be proud of with regard to our treatment of women and minorities. That doesn't mean the job's finished yet though.

Another classic contrarian post! Or was it a press release?

[MrPin]

The Caste System is one of Hinduisms worst traits! Apart from that it seems to be a very jolly religion with lots of colourful festivals, and days off!

It reminds me of Rwanda, where people were abitrarily Hutu or Tutsie! Just an excuse to bash and abuse somebody else!

I met a Hindu gentleman, who was the first person in his family to marry outside his caste, and this is fairly recently, so I guess change will be slow in these "Wickerman" village areas!

Actually my colleague's wife was from a "landowner" caste, and he (most impressivel!) was from a "brewing" caste, although he works in IT!

These "policemen" have "failed to uphold the law" in a most spectacularly horrible way, and I hope a nation that plays Cricket can punish them in a suitable way!

[Darkman]

Also to clarify: I do think that Western culture has come a long way over the past few centuries and that we have a lot to be proud of with regard to our treatment of women and minorities. That doesn't mean the job's finished yet though.

No, definitely not a widespread problem in India......

India: Second Gang Rape In Days Investigated

Amnesty International calls for action on the rape and murder of lower caste women in India as another attack is reported.

Another teenage girl has reportedly been gang-raped in northern India as police have launched an investigation into an alleged attack on the mother of another rape victim.

Police said four men attacked a 17-year-old girl in a field in Sarai Meer, Uttar Pradesh, on Wednesday.

http://news.sky.com/story/1272047/india-second-gang-rape-in-days-investigated

[Riedquat]

Just to take your first example: The recent stoning to death of a woman outside a Pakistani court was a criminal act, and the perpetrators are either under arrest or being sought by the police. This murder was not sanctioned by the majority. This is exactly what I mean by people falsely assuming that newspaper stories are necessarily representative of normal life.

Laws and culture don't always align, and cultures aren't monolithic anyway. These barbaric incidents often generate quite a bit of disgust in India, so yes, you can't simply say "Indian culture tolerates and encourages this sort of disgusting barbarism", but neither can you deny that there's a section of Indian society that does (and ditto with some other societies). Unlike the Harold Shipmans of this world it's not simply a case of some deranged individuals. There is a revolting sub-human aspect to some parts of Indian culture.

[Ill_handle_it]

If it's the DM, please don't link.

Actually no it wasn't and I will find the source.

[ARIMA]

Another terrible crime in the province of Uttar Disgrace.

[RichB]

I'm surprised by your comments darkman, given the sheer volume of posts on this very board that constantly refer to massive cover ups of the murder or sexual abuse of young boys and girls with alleged collusion of both police and judiciary, not to mention media.

[Darkman]

I'm surprised by your comments darkman, given the sheer volume of posts on this very board that constantly refer to massive cover ups of the murder or sexual abuse of young boys and girls with alleged collusion of both police and judiciary, not to mention media.

If you believe that these pedophile networks in the UK are on the scale of the cultural issues abroad then so be it. There's something endemic about girls being stoned to death by their entire family while the police stand idly by. And there's also something deeply disturbing about new cases of gang rape & murder in similar circumstances cropping up on a weekly basis. Compare a couple of men abusing a child behind closed doors to a woman being horribly murdered outside a court house, with the biggest stones thrown by her own parents and siblings while the police watch in numbers. Both terrible of course, but I find one more shocking than the other. It's the sheer brazen openness of it.

Hey I could be wrong, but I just don't see highly organised child abuse in the UK being as widespread as the contemptuous treatment of females in India, Pakistan, Arabia and elsewhere.

[geezer466]

If you believe that these pedophile networks in the UK are on the scale of the cultural issues abroad then so be it. There's something endemic about girls being stoned to death by their entire family while the police stand idly by. And there's also something deeply disturbing about new cases of gang rape & murder in similar circumstances cropping up on a weekly basis. Compare a couple of men abusing a child behind closed doors to a woman being horribly murdered outside a court house, with the biggest stones thrown by her own parents and siblings while the police watch in numbers. Both terrible of course, but I find one more shocking than the other. It's the sheer brazen openness of it.

Hey I could be wrong, but I just don't see highly organised child abuse in the UK being as widespread as the contemptuous treatment of females in India, Pakistan, Arabia and elsewhere.

Certainly not on the same scale, but the behaviour of the grooming gangs and the degradation and treatment of women is something that lies in this cultural medieval mindset.

There have been quite a few arrests in the North of England in the last few weeks as more gangs are discovered, evidence collected and persons charged but it rarely makes the news now.

Whether the media has been told to 'tone it down' or the stories are the result of 'D Notices' who knows. It has been suggested on one of the backchannel forums used by the Met that Andrew Gilligan has been subject to at least one 'D Notice' in the last week over his reports about the election in Tower Hamlets.

It is probably true to say things are coming to a head and the authorities are desperate to keep a lid on it. The local population threatening to riot if the Election fiasco there is investigated or another Rigby type attack on a soldier it is not going to take much to send it all over the edge.

[wherebee]

Certainly not on the same scale, but the behaviour of the grooming gangs and the degradation and treatment of women is something that lies in this cultural medieval mindset.

There have been quite a few arrests in the North of England in the last few weeks as more gangs are discovered, evidence collected and persons charged but it rarely makes the news now.

Whether the media has been told to 'tone it down' or the stories are the result of 'D Notices' who knows. It has been suggested on one of the backchannel forums used by the Met that Andrew Gilligan has been subject to at least one 'D Notice' in the last week over his reports about the election in Tower Hamlets.

It is probably true to say things are coming to a head and the authorities are desperate to keep a lid on it. The local population threatening to riot if the Election fiasco there is investigated or another Rigby type attack on a soldier it is not going to take much to send it all over the edge.

This is one of the biggest scandals with governments of left and right over the past decades, in my view. Using D-notices and suppression of facts just because of fears of race relation issues. How about you deal with the f**king problem rather than lying to the populace?