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BLOW FLY

James Andrews Article: Property Is In A Bubble, We Need To Burst Now.

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Good article.

Supply is an issue mainly due to thr BTL bridgade unfortuantly with so many VI in goverment cant see where change will come from.

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It's not just about supply and BTL sucking up all the FTB homes and pricing them out, it's also about how little tax they pay. If the UK has such a huge deficit/debt, they should be looking at the people who have the most wealth that they haven't earned to pay - rentiers and those that have benefited from HPI. I am so sick of hearing about the little old lady living in a £1.5 million house who wouldn't be able to pay a mansion tax, yet presumably would have no problem taking the profit from her unearned house price gains.

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I thought this was a really interesting article yesterday, I posted it in the NEWS but it hasn't shown up yet. I wanted to post it as a thread, but I knew it would take forever, so I asked on another thread if someone could post it. I am surprised that more people have not commented, but perhaps it is so unlikely that anyone could be man/woman enough to bring about such changes that HP-Crashers are not that excited. I wonder if the title of the thread does not really capture what is being said. If I saw a thread titled Tax Btl and 2nd Home Owners, I may not bother to click. But if I saw a title that said:

Property is a bubble we need to burst, this is how We have to stop kidding ourselves and stop house prices now, or we risk creating a generation that will never be able to afford to buy and struggle to even rent

I might just click ...

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I thought this was a really interesting article yesterday, I posted it in the NEWS but it hasn't shown up yet. I wanted to post it as a thread, but I knew it would take forever, so I asked on another thread if someone could post it. I am surprised that more people have not commented, but perhaps it is so unlikely that anyone could be man/woman enough to bring about such changes that HP-Crashers are not that excited. I wonder if the title of the thread does not really capture what is being said. If I saw a thread titled Tax Btl and 2nd Home Owners, I may not bother to click. But if I saw a title that said:

Property is a bubble we need to burst, this is how

We have to stop kidding ourselves and stop house prices now, or we risk creating a generation that will never be able to afford to buy and struggle to even rent

I might just click ... (edited as format didn't work)

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Just nice to see someone in the media that BTL should be taxed.

Whether this idea gains any traction I seriously doubt it, sadly.

I'll edit the title then Dweller, see what happens, I must admit I agree with you I thought that this article would have been of more interest on here.

Edited by BLOW FLY

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I thought this was a really interesting article yesterday, I posted it in the NEWS but it hasn't shown up yet. I wanted to post it as a thread, but I knew it would take forever, so I asked on another thread if someone could post it. I am surprised that more people have not commented, but perhaps it is so unlikely that anyone could be man/woman enough to bring about such changes that HP-Crashers are not that excited. I wonder if the title of the thread does not really capture what is being said. If I saw a thread titled Tax Btl and 2nd Home Owners, I may not bother to click. But if I saw a title that said: Property is a bubble we need to burst, this is how We have to stop kidding ourselves and stop house prices now, or we risk creating a generation that will never be able to afford to buy and struggle to even rent

I might just click ...

If you request an upgrade you'll avoid the delay problem.

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If you request an upgrade you'll avoid the delay problem.

Ah, I thought I had to earn it?

I was on this site years ago, and then when I tried to return last year, got muddled up with passwords and registering and found myself unable to edit, and unable to start a new thread or post any News etc without long delays.

I thought perhaps I have a reputation for posting too much or something, so the mods were seeking to limit my participation or something.

I will have a look and see how I request an upgrade, thanks.

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Just nice to see someone in the media that BTL should be taxed.

Whether this idea gains any traction I seriously doubt it, sadly.

I'll edit the title then Dweller, see what happens, I must admit I agree with you I thought that this article would have been of more interest on here.

Obviously just of NO interest but thanks for trying a change of title.

You can sell a two bedroom flat in Brixton for more than £500,000 right now – throw in even a tiny garden and we’re talking £650,000 and up. Brixton. And not even central or on the high street.

That’s 19 times the average salary in the UK. Assuming you don’t want any outside space. Or parking....So who’s buying these homes then? Partly it’s overseas buyers – especially in London – but mostly it’s private landlords. These people can use capital gains from one home as a deposit on another, and have mortgages linked to the property’s rental potential, not their own earnings.And it’s not just existing landlords. Anyone with some spare cash for a deposit is looking at house price growth and rental returns pretty seriously at the moment – with savings rates still tiny, annuities paying very little and record numbers of people retiring (where you can access a large chunk of your pension tax-free) there’s a lot of cash around looking for decent returns. These people aren’t trying to find somewhere to live, they’re trying to make money.

Don’t believe me? Well, buy-to-let mortgage lending soared 69% in the past 12 months according to the Council of Mortgage Lenders - to a total of £2.2billion.Between 2002/3 and 2013 the number of people living in private rented accommodation more than doubled to 3.9million, with more people in privately rented homes than socially rented homes for the first time. Home ownership is at 25-year lows, and falling.

If you’re a landlord and want a decent return of, say, 4% on your £500,000 two bed flat in Brixton, you’d need to charge about £385-a-week in rent. Which is not far off what many people are charging for these properties.

What we need to control isn’t mortgage lending, or house prices, it’s the cost of living somewhere decent. Make buy-to-let a bad investment and a lot of properties will come onto the market.

How about taxing people 4%-a-year of the value of any home they don’t live in? That hits landlords and foreign investors alike. It also means Britain’s 600,000 empty homes would be back on the market pretty sharpish – increasing housing supply rather quickly.

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Obviously just of NO interest but thanks for trying a change of title.

You can sell a two bedroom flat in Brixton for more than £500,000 right now throw in even a tiny garden and were talking £650,000 and up. Brixton. And not even central or on the high street.

Thats 19 times the average salary in the UK. Assuming you dont want any outside space. Or parking....So whos buying these homes then? Partly its overseas buyers especially in London but mostly its private landlords. These people can use capital gains from one home as a deposit on another, and have mortgages linked to the propertys rental potential, not their own earnings.And its not just existing landlords. Anyone with some spare cash for a deposit is looking at house price growth and rental returns pretty seriously at the moment with savings rates still tiny, annuities paying very little and record numbers of people retiring (where you can access a large chunk of your pension tax-free) theres a lot of cash around looking for decent returns. These people arent trying to find somewhere to live, theyre trying to make money.

Dont believe me? Well, buy-to-let mortgage lending soared 69% in the past 12 months according to the Council of Mortgage Lenders - to a total of £2.2billion.Between 2002/3 and 2013 the number of people living in private rented accommodation more than doubled to 3.9million, with more people in privately rented homes than socially rented homes for the first time. Home ownership is at 25-year lows, and falling.

If youre a landlord and want a decent return of, say, 4% on your £500,000 two bed flat in Brixton, youd need to charge about £385-a-week in rent. Which is not far off what many people are charging for these properties.

What we need to control isnt mortgage lending, or house prices, its the cost of living somewhere decent. Make buy-to-let a bad investment and a lot of properties will come onto the market.

How about taxing people 4%-a-year of the value of any home they dont live in? That hits landlords and foreign investors alike. It also means Britains 600,000 empty homes would be back on the market pretty sharpish increasing housing supply rather quickly.

BTL lending up 69%? That is shocking. They need to regulate BTL lending hard and fast, it's turning into the Wild West in that market. I've just heard from my wife that her colleague is to remortgage his property, so he can put down a deposit on 6 BTL properties in a deprived area using interest only, madness that the government is supporting this type of hoarding.

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According to another thread, BTL`s are already starting to hit the market in big numbers in Wales.

I struggle to believe that to be honest.

Sentiment around BTL seems so bullish ATM that I think it's probably blurb to suck more people into BTL.

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...... madness that the government is supporting this type of hoarding.

Is it possible that BTL'ers have been sucked in over the last few years and are about to be sacrificed by an orchestrated 'pop'?

This might be wishful thinking, but in terms of 'fall-out' I'd say investors losing their portfolios has to be a better consequence than a family losing their home.

The back-log of thirtysomethings waiting to buy at reasonable prices would win too.

Come on, karma. Where are you?

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I'm tempted to start an online petition.... along the lines of "CGT on property not lived in by the owner". Could I rely on you guys to send it round the web on facebook/twitter etc? I know we'd be up against the VIs but surely we'd get enough signatures for parliament to at least provide a formal response.

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I'm tempted to start an online petition.... along the lines of "CGT on property not lived in by the owner". Could I rely on you guys to send it round the web on facebook/twitter etc? I know we'd be up against the VIs but surely we'd get enough signatures for parliament to at least provide a formal response.

Good idea

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I'm tempted to start an online petition.... along the lines of "CGT on property not lived in by the owner". Could I rely on you guys to send it round the web on facebook/twitter etc? I know we'd be up against the VIs but surely we'd get enough signatures for parliament to at least provide a formal response.

Why not do it via change.org? I've signed loads of petitions that way, and so have other HPCers.

Edited by 1929crash

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I've actually just submitted one on gov.uk..... I'm waiting for it to be approved. Once up and running I'll paste it into a new thread so it gets full visiblity.

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So....you want to have a few market, but you want to the BTL market regulated?

I want all investments to be taxed consistently.

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Remember people with more than one property only have one vote...

I know people living in high property price megga London inflationery prices.....they do not want it to carry on, they only own or are only buying ONE property, they can see their children being priced out, they can see themselves being ever priced out of their next property move......all this can only end in tears. ;)

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Is it possible that BTL'ers have been sucked in over the last few years and are about to be sacrificed by an orchestrated 'pop'?

This might be wishful thinking, but in terms of 'fall-out' I'd say investors losing their portfolios has to be a better consequence than a family losing their home.

The back-log of thirtysomethings waiting to buy at reasonable prices would win too.

Come on, karma. Where are you?

More than possible I'd say, a BTL bail-in would be much more acceptable to the general public than a savings bail-in plus the banks wouldn't have to worry about all that pesky consumer protection/duty of care stuff as they're unregulated business loans.

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More than possible I'd say, a BTL bail-in would be much more acceptable to the general public than a savings bail-in plus the banks wouldn't have to worry about all that pesky consumer protection/duty of care stuff as they're unregulated business loans.

Added bonus if it also hits the post-mmr, new wave, BTL liar loan fraudsters.

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Added bonus if it also hits the post-mmr, new wave, BTL liar loan fraudsters.

It will hit them worst of all given that anyone who is having problems getting the mortgage they want under MMR clearly can't actually afford that mortgage. Is it too much to hope that their equity/assets get bailed into the banks and they get prosecuted for mortgage fraud when they try to complain that they're being taking advantage of them, or would that just be shooting ourselves in the foot given our taxes would have to fund their prison terms?

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