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How Thatcherism Failed The Majority

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http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/15/thatcherism-failed-britons-one-graph_n_5329228.html?ref=topbar

"official figures from the Office for National Statistics show that the richest 10% of Britons own nearly half (44%) of household wealth. Over 2010-2012, the richest 20% have 105 times as much wealth as the poorest 20%.

This is another shocking chapter in a tale of two Britains, further evidence of increasing inequality at a time when five rich families have the same wealth as 12 million people."

Whatever happened to trickle down?

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Whatever happened to trickle down?

It's trickling down. However if the top 10% are seeing there wealth increase at say 20% per annum (made up figure) and 0.1% of this is trickling down you are going to end up with huge inequality and a massive wealth divide.

Trickle down was a piece of genius propaganda which made out everyone was going to be better off when in reality those at the top where simply going to get even richer.

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Probably the worst PM in history for me in hindsight, and yet I consistently voted for her at the time.

Awful lot of the problems we have now are just the result of decades of can-kicking from problems begun under her tenure though.

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Blame Canada... Sorry, I meant "Blame Fatcher".

But don't blame Major, Blair, Brown or Cameron... cause they worked really hard to reduce inequality. What do you mean, they did nothing? But... but... I want to blame Thatcher! Wah! Wah! Let me blame Thatcher!

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Blame Canada... Sorry, I meant "Blame Fatcher".

But don't blame Major, Blair, Brown or Cameron... cause they worked really hard to reduce inequality. What do you mean, they did nothing? But... but... I want to blame Thatcher! Wah! Wah! Let me blame Thatcher!

No blaming Thatcher.

The can-kickers after fixed nothing either. But then I'd class all as "Thatcherite".

How many of us now would be happy with unemployment at 1.4M, a benefit bill a quarter of what it is now, and average house prices at 90K though?

That's what we had in 1979 and frankly I don't think anything has got better for the majority in 35 years.

We've all benefited from leaps in technology sure, but not our politics.

Edited by byron78

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Probably the worst PM in history for me in hindsight, and yet I consistently voted for her at the time.

Awful lot of the problems we have now are just the result of decades of can-kicking from problems begun under her tenure though.

For example?

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No blaming Thatcher.

The can-kickers after fixed nothing either.

How many of us now would be happy with unemployment at 1.4M and average house prices at 90K though?

That's what we had in 1979 and frankly I don't think anything has got better for the majority in 35 years.

We've all benefited from leaps in technology sure, but not our politics.

In 1995 house prices hit a post war low thanks to the selfless rebalancing of John Major, whose still waiting for his canonisation. In 1979 we had an horrendous house price peak greater than 1989.

Blame Blair for screwing up the UK with his ramping of house prices from 1999-2003 and condemning a whole generation to useless rites of passage at Uni to learn about Human Geography whilst we import Polish plumbers.

Edited by crashmonitor

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For example?

Simply compare employment, the benefit bill, and house prices in 1979 to now.

Unemployment has doubled (probably tripled if you include those hidden in the statistics), benefit bill has increased fourfold, house prices twice as expensive.

The shift to a service-based "for London and F everywhere else" economy began under Thatcher. I'm not saying she's solely to blame for all the dung that has been rolled since, but she definitely got said balls rolling.

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http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/15/thatcherism-failed-britons-one-graph_n_5329228.html?ref=topbar

"official figures from the Office for National Statistics show that the richest 10% of Britons own nearly half (44%) of household wealth. Over 2010-2012, the richest 20% have 105 times as much wealth as the poorest 20%.

This is another shocking chapter in a tale of two Britains, further evidence of increasing inequality at a time when five rich families have the same wealth as 12 million people."

Whatever happened to trickle down?

Trickle down has nothing to do with Thatcher.

I was aware of it in my first job in London, I was discussing at a Church meeting my idea that the rich would spend more in shops, keeping factories going, shops open and all the associated services in work.

A fellow member of the discussion group, a clergyman, told us this was nothing new and the idea was known as Trickle Down.

This was in 1975.

Thatcher was just a boy then.

I had another idea a few years ago having observed the disgusting housing estates they were, and are still, putting up...I thought..why not build all the new houses along the hundreds of thousands of miles of Country Roads we have...plenty of space, everyone gets a view of green lushness, society would improve. Discussing this with a local Parish Councillor, she told me, yeah, its called "Ribbon Development"...

So, I guess there is nothing new under the Sun.

Edited by Bloo Loo

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The lifting of capital controls/bsoc deregulation I mentioned earlier for one.

EDIT: I don't know whether whoever pushed all that in the US/UK knew how it would turn out like some sort of Doctor Evil but I wouldn't rule it out as part of an epic struggle between capital and labour. Thereafter I don't think many of the leaders had the wherewithall to really understand what they were doing and the implications as they mouth the trite slogans they had learned.

But in itself that isn't the cause of 'the problems we have now' and if certain other things were fixed it's not a move you'd look to reverse.

As for the struggle between capital and labour, are you suggesting that the people following a Marxist analysis are now the capitalists?

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Trickle down has nothing to do with Thatcher.

I was aware of it in my first job in London, I was discussing at a Church meeting my idea that the rich would spend more in shops, keeping factories going, shops open and all the associated services in work.

A fellow member of the discussion group, a clergyman, told us this was nothing new and the idea was know as Trickle Down.

This was in 1975.

Thatcher was just a boy then.

Meanwhile trickle down actually meant keep it in the family, generous inheritance rules, bank of mum and dad....and the God fearing Blairs and Camerons sat at the big table and created the Big Society to feed the scraps to the peasants. Victorian wealth distribution in action.

Edited by crashmonitor

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Personal I would blame the Blair government for most of the problems we currently have.

Property was fair priced (by the end) under the Major government, it rose, without any attempt to address, under Blair/Brown.

Pensions were taxed under Blair/Brown, forcing people to look for other 'safe' investments.

Terrorism grew under Blair/Brown. It may well have happened anyway but I'm sure that Blair's warmongering didn't help.

Apart from selling the housing stock off, cheaply and a bit of deregulation, what did Thatcher do worst than the Blair/Brown club?

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Simply compare employment, the benefit bill, and house prices in 1979 to now.

Unemployment has doubled (probably tripled if you include those hidden in the statistics), benefit bill has increased fourfold, house prices twice as expensive.

The shift to a service-based "for London and F everywhere else" economy began under Thatcher. I'm not saying she's solely to blame for all the dung that has been rolled since, but she definitely got said balls rolling.

The issue with Thatchers Policy was that the failed would be allowed to go under.

As the end of her residence came along, the wets in the party were insisting on bail outs, hand outs and forebearance for their once prospering friends in Industry...as the policy became more and more watered down, all those problems of which you speak started to appear.

Government interference is the problem that really took off from a Government that became high on credit...Thats ALL parties by the way.

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Meanwhile trickle down actually meant keep it in the family, generous inheritance rules, bank of mum and dad....and the God fearing Blairs and Camerons sat at the big table and created the Big Society to feed the scraps to the peasants. Victorian wealth distribution in action.

trickle down is not a policy..It is a justification for one.

by the way, having applied for a job this week, part of the job description concerned the "Third Sector"..any ideas what this "Third Sector" is?

turns out its the unpaid voluntary sector and some reports suggest it makes up 7% of GDP in the UK...It has also been renamed now by the tories to "Big Society" according to some.

In other words, Big Society not only adds to GDP, it is very cheap indeed...If the articles Ive read are to be beleived.

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Personal I would blame the Blair government for most of the problems we currently have.

Property was fair priced (by the end) under the Major government, it rose, without any attempt to address, under Blair/Brown.

Pensions were taxed under Blair/Brown, forcing people to look for other 'safe' investments.

Terrorism grew under Blair/Brown. It may well have happened anyway but I'm sure that Blair's warmongering didn't help.

Apart from selling the housing stock off, cheaply and a bit of deregulation, what did Thatcher do worst than the Blair/Brown club?

What else would you expect from a BTL fanatic, it's the new socialist culture helping oneself to as many housing units as possible.

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The Key issue, later bypassed, with Thatchers Policy, was that the failed would be allowed to go under.

As the end of her residence came along, the wets in the party were insisting on bail outs, hand outs and forebearance for their once prospering friends in Industry...as the policy became more and more watered down, all those problems of which you speak started to appear.

Government interference is the problem that really took off from a Government that became high on credit...Thats ALL parties by the way.

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Thatcher = Globalism.

Thats the problem.

I was laughing at the BBC the other day with their daily election run up love in with the EU. They were saying its because of the EU and international alliances we were able to tackle the recession so 'effectively'

Er, what?

Its global imbalances that caused the recession. International money flows, debt for imports.

Globalisation isnt the solution to the problem, it is the problem!

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The issue with Thatchers Policy was that the failed would be allowed to go under.

As the end of her residence came along, the wets in the party were insisting on bail outs, hand outs and forebearance for their once prospering friends in Industry...as the policy became more and more watered down, all those problems of which you speak started to appear.

Government interference is the problem that really took off from a Government that became high on credit...Thats ALL parties by the way.

Perhaps, perhaps not.

BCCI, Barings went under. No bailouts. Equitable life savers werent compensated until labour got in power.

FSCS didnt come in until snot gobblers tripartite regulatory system.

Im not saying it means i think people actually bothered to check on the solvency of their banks any more before 1997 than after, but on paper at least, the banks had a lot less security before 1997 than after, and should have been more responsible.

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If anyone thinks that deregulation is why we are not building enough houses in the UK. I would love to hear their reasoning.

Under Thatcher more houses were built than the population grew something the nu Lab and the condems have failed to do.

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It's trickling down. However if the top 10% are seeing there wealth increase at say 20% per annum (made up figure) and 0.1% of this is trickling down you are going to end up with huge inequality and a massive wealth divide.

Trickle down was a piece of genius propaganda which made out everyone was going to be better off when in reality those at the top where simply going to get even richer.

I would not call it trickling down. I would liken it to a dripping tap, where the tap drips another drop once every few years....

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http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/15/thatcherism-failed-britons-one-graph_n_5329228.html?ref=topbar

"official figures from the Office for National Statistics show that the richest 10% of Britons own nearly half (44%) of household wealth. Over 2010-2012, the richest 20% have 105 times as much wealth as the poorest 20%.

This is another shocking chapter in a tale of two Britains, further evidence of increasing inequality at a time when five rich families have the same wealth as 12 million people."

Whatever happened to trickle down?

To be honest it was obvious from day one that thatcherite privatization would result in a vastly more unequal distribution of wealth. When assets are owned by the state everyone in the nation via his or her vote has an equal share in that national capital.

When anything is privatized that national capital will end up being unequally distributed. For example consider the recent post office privatization. Thus as we have privatized more and more parts of the state, from running prison facilities to care homes, we have at the same time made the distribution of wealth more and more unequal.

I can't see how anyone could think that this would not happen given how obvious it is.

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Blame Canada... Sorry, I meant "Blame Fatcher".

But don't blame Major, Blair, Brown or Cameron... cause they worked really hard to reduce inequality. What do you mean, they did nothing? But... but... I want to blame Thatcher! Wah! Wah! Let me blame Thatcher!

*yawn* so childish, read my prior post.....

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If anyone thinks that deregulation is why we are not building enough houses in the UK. I would love to hear their reasoning.

Under Thatcher more houses were built than the population grew something the nu Lab and the condems have failed to do.

True, but there's a huge caveat there.

There were around 153,000 homes built by local authorities in 1976-77; when Margaret Thatcher left office it was 1500.

Yes there was an impressive spike in private builds initially (mainly by small builders not the huge cartels we have now) but that has been tumbling ever since (9 years of Tory, 12 of Labour).

Edited by byron78

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