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So, the Conservative MEP canvassing leaflet has just been put through my letterbox

Sub heading - WHAT WE HAVE DONE

Strapline - WHAT YOU TOLD US - what we did

CAP WELFARE - so we've capped welfare - no out of work household can now claim more than the average family earns in work.

Obviously, the leaflet is not targeted at the thinking person.

Go out, deal with workplace colleagues, or struggle to be self-employed with less benefits such as sick pay, and realise that if you're achieving average or below average earnings you might as well quit and fill all the forms out, rather than just a few.

Edited by LiveinHope

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"CAP WELFARE - so we've capped welfare - no out of work household can now claim more than the average family earns in work."

Well that's a blatant lie there are numerous exceptions to the welfare cap including a partner or child in your household getting disability benefit, which I believe has been the preferred access point to all sorts of benefits and no welfare cap.

http://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/benefits-cap

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Not sure it matters the ins and outs.

Ancedote from work, boomer who calls himself a true blue (omg) was saying in conversation how great the benefit cap is , i explained it didnt apply to those in work and the serious money is housing benefit and child tax credits , he wasnt interested as the tories have told him they are tough on welfare so it must be true.

Another ancedote from my work, guy with 6 kids and part timer came in with his brand new mercedes 4x4, always has the latest i phone , flash trainers etc etc, people dont realise just how much he is taking in through benefits. Cos he works ( to a degree) striver not scrounger in everyones eyes, i have to be careful what i say as quiet a few of these cases at work.

Makes an absolute mockery of anyone else not benefited up coming in and doing the job when some are getting their money bumped up to incredible levels via the taxpayer

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I dread to think the true hourly rate this guy with 6 kids is on compared to me for the same job, i defy anyone to come to work and be fine with this , i think the country is in trouble as i cant see how they can wind this down to a worthwhile degree without major consequences.

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So, the Conservative MEP canvassing leaflet has just been put through my letterbox

Sub heading - WHAT WE HAVE DONE

Strapline - WHAT YOU TOLD US - what we didCAP WELFARE - so we've capped welfare - no out of work household can now claim more than the average family earns in work.

Obviously, the leaflet is not targeted at the thinking person.

Go out, deal with workplace colleagues, or struggle to be self-employed with less benefits such as sick pay, and realise that if you're achieving average or below average earnings you might as well quit and fill all the forms out, rather than just a few.

I might have missed something - but doesn't this benefits cap vs. average wage quip also ignore the fact the wage earner pays tax so their net income is only around £20600. Therefore the benefits cap is around 25% higher than the average earner?

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Out of interest, how many families are over the 26K cap?

Edit: according to gov.UK site it's 28400.

That seems very very low given the press it's received. Would guess most of those are in London.

Fag packet maths time: they cost 750M a year.

That's ridiculously high but there are literally tens of billions being wasted elsewhere whilst we're all told to focus on this.

http://www.greenbenchesuk.com/2014/01/a-database-of-waste-40-ways-tories-have.html?m=1

Edited by byron78

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Out of interest, how many families are over the 26K cap?

Edit: according to gov.UK site it's 28400.

That seems very very low given the press it's received. Would guess most of those are in London.

Fag packet maths time: they cost 750M a year.

That's ridiculously high but there are literally tens of billions being wasted elsewhere whilst we're all told to focus on this.

http://www.greenbenchesuk.com/2014/01/a-database-of-waste-40-ways-tories-have.html?m=1

And most of them have been docked less than £50 per week under the cap. The savings are tiny - about £50 million - so about 0.03% of the welfare budget. But by an overwhelming margin it's the Tories most popular policy. Surely that very discrepancy means that something is very badly wrong.

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Another ancedote from my work, guy with 6 kids and part timer came in with his brand new mercedes 4x4, always has the latest i phone , flash trainers etc etc, people dont realise just how much he is taking in through benefits. Cos he works ( to a degree) striver not scrounger in everyones eyes,

I don't doubt that he receives benefits. But a "brand new mercedes 4x4" is over £44k before you start adding any extras. I might think "criminal" before I thought "scrounger"!

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I don't doubt that he receives benefits. But a "brand new mercedes 4x4" is over £44k before you start adding any extras. I might think "criminal" before I thought "scrounger"!

Yes maybe the "criminality" aspect you mention is of taking money from other taxpayers at force to distribute to those more deserving.

Anyhow my point was more to show the kind of disposable income this guy has on a low paid job due to a massive wage uplift by in work benefits that are unaffected by any benefit cap.

This kind of nonsense absolves tesco ( the particular employer) of ever having to pay its workers a wage that they can survive on without in work benefits. The losers being the taxpayer and those that do not qualify for in work benefits. Does anyone wish to contribute their taxes to a 3 billion profit a year company to pay a piss poor wage to its staff?

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Maybe if they spent the billions earmarked for 'Help to Buy' on building some social housing instead they could reduce the Housing benefit bill?

Both are socialist programmes- but the latter makes a lot more sense than the former.

How boosting houseprices which creates more demand for rented accommodation which then pushes up rents which then forces more people to claim housing benefit is in any way consistent with the idea of capping the cost of welfare is beyond me.

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I don't doubt that he receives benefits. But a "brand new mercedes 4x4" is over £44k before you start adding any extras. I might think "criminal" before I thought "scrounger"!

Don't you mean £7k down and £550 a month? Sounds a bit more accessible that way. I know what you mean with the "how can you afford that legally" thinking, but some people do allocate their spending in strange ways i.e. live in a cheap dump of a house but spend £500+ a month on car costs. If it isn't that then I've no clue how everyone afford the current glut of new Range Rovers etc around these days (assuming the remortgaging trend is waning somewhat).

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Another ancedote from my work, guy with 6 kids and part timer came in with his brand new mercedes 4x4, always has the latest i phone , flash trainers etc etc, people dont realise just how much he is taking in through benefits. Cos he works ( to a degree) striver not scrounger in everyones eyes, i have to be careful what i say as quiet a few of these cases at work.

Holy sh*t! I'm quite disgusted by this. I'm a single guy, no dependants, claiming no benefits, paying around 45 - 50 % of my take home pay in rent and driving a 10 year old car.

I suppose I can't be p*ssed at the guy. After all, it's the Government that has allowed this to happen. Seems like the Coalition is still allowing him that lifestyle despite coming down on benefits.

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All the farmers round here still seem to be driving a new shiny Range Rover every few years...

This thread is about benefit caps, not CAP Benefit, silly.

CAP is for MPs families, like Ian Duncan Smith* or Richard Benyon*, who have worked hard to marry into or inherit farmland, and are rewarded generously* for selflessly owning it. If they are really unselfish, they can leave the farmland fallow, so they don't even have to do any work on it.. It helps keep food prices up. Ker-ching!

* Their familes have received CAP Benefit well into 7 figures, but we are no longer allowed to know how much. EU Privacy rules, you see.

Edited by happy_renting

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How boosting houseprices which creates more demand for rented accommodation which then pushes up rents which then forces more people to claim housing benefit is in any way consistent with the idea of capping the cost of welfare is beyond me.

Ssssh. You're not supposed to notice that. These housing bubbles don't just inflate themselves, y'know.

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Maybe if they spent the billions earmarked for 'Help to Buy' on building some social housing instead they could reduce the Housing benefit bill?

Both are socialist programmes- but the latter makes a lot more sense than the former.

How boosting houseprices which creates more demand for rented accommodation which then pushes up rents which then forces more people to claim housing benefit is in any way consistent with the idea of capping the cost of welfare is beyond me.

Help to Buy is crony capitalist, or at best socialist for the rich i.e the seller.

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This kind of nonsense absolves tesco ( the particular employer) of ever having to pay its workers a wage that they can survive on without in work benefits. The losers being the taxpayer and those that do not qualify for in work benefits. Does anyone wish to contribute their taxes to a 3 billion profit a year company to pay a piss poor wage to its staff?

And here is the real, steaming juicy turd of the real hidden agenda: By driving benefits down further, they can then drive wages down further; because even if you are paid crap, it is then still better than being on the reduced unemployment benefits.

And the low-paid are rabble-roused into splentic envy of the unemployed on benefits, demanding that unemployment benefits are cut! It's like having sheep that load themselves into the wagon to the slaughterhouse. It's comical, really.

You can see the ££ signs in the Tesco director's when they dream about it.

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